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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-12-21 HRA Regular Meeting L • MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE EDINA HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY HELD AT CITY HALL DECEMBER 21, 1998 - 7:00 P.M. ROLLCALL Answering rollcall were Commissioners Faust, Hovland, Maetzold, and Chair Smith. Commissioner Kelly entered the meeting at 7:12 P.M. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS APPROVED Motion made by Commissioner Faust and seconded by Commissioner Maetzold approving the Consent Agenda as presented. Rollcall: Ayes: Faust, Hovland, Maetzold, Smith Motion carried. *MINUTES OF THE DECEMBER 7 1998 HRA MEETING APPROVED Motion made by Commissioner Faust and seconded by Commissioner Maetzold approving the Minutes of the December 7, 1998, HRA Meeting as presented. Motion carried on rollcall vote - four ayes. CLAIMS PAID Commissioner Maetzold made a motion approving payment of the • following claims as shown in detail on the Check Register dated December 16, 1998, and consisting of one page totaling $74,778.12. Commissioner Faust seconded the motion. Rollcall: Ayes: Faust, Hovland, Maetzold, Smith Motion carried. COMMISSIONER CONCERN EXPRESSED Commissioner Faust stated she wished to have her comments recorded in the HRA Minutes regarding the WMEP proposal for the Lewis Engineering/Kunz Oil site. She stated she has, on two separate occasions called for all action involving WMEP to be made public since the School Board will not do it. Commissioner Faust made a motion that all discussions with the School Board be made public. Commissioner Hovland seconded the motion for matter of discussion. The following is a near verbatim transcription of the HRA/Council discussion. Commissioner Faust stated she does not see a reason for any meetings to be held behind closed doors. Since the School Board refuses to talk about it in public, the City should not go along with that. If a project like this is proposed, it would require citizen support from the very beginning. She restated that any discussion with the School . Board or WMEP should be open to the public and should be noted on the HRA/Council Agenda. Commissioner Faust stated she believes any Commissioner speaking to the 1 School Board should be doing so in public. Chair Smith said state law controls that and • he felt this had been done. Commissioner Faust said two Commissioners can meet without approval. If one Commissioner meets with the Executive Director and meets with the School Board from now on, the meeting should be made public on the subject of the WMEP project. Commissioner Hovland asked clarification if her intent is that any representative of WMEP or any representative of the School Board or the whole body of the School Board should be included. Commissioner Faust said not the whole body, any representative. Commissioner Hovland asked if any three people meet, the meeting should be made public. Commissioner Faust said the meeting should be made public, in advance. The School Board is not forthcoming and will not talk about the proposal in public, the HRA/Council should be willing to do that. Chair Smith explained he did not understand the concern. When a proposal comes forward with a project, a public hearing is then scheduled and held. Commissioner Faust said she believes the proposal is past the formative stage and citizens should be involved. She added since the Lewis Engineering site is being considered, all neighbors near the site should be notified that discussions are being held and should have been included from the beginning. Commissioner Maetzold said he would not support the motion and added he is not aware of conversations that have taken place. This is a large collaborative project with another government body. With developing a project like this, discussions must be held . between representatives of the various organizations that mean to move the process ahead and follow the state's meeting law. Commissioner Maetzold stated he would hate to hamstring the normal, on-going process taking place. The motion on the floor seems like an unnecessary burden to him. At this point, this is a WMEP project with nine school districts under the auspices of the State of Minnesota. WMEP, as a State body, is the organization responsible for this project. Many discussions will be held not only with the Edina School District, but between representatives of the other involved school districts. Requiring meetings to all be open to the public is not practical. Commissioner Kelly questioned what is objectionable about a meeting where no decisions are made. Commissioner Faust said the School Board will not have an open meeting and the only way they can be forced to have an open meeting is to put handcuffs on them in this manner. Commissioner Kelly asked if an open meeting is held between WMEP and the School Board, what proposal would be brought forward. Commissioner Faust again said citizens need to be involved in this process. Commissioner Kelly asked when would the HRA/Council be addressed. Commissioner Hovland asked if Commissioner Faust, Director Hughes, Chair Smith and Frank Bennett met, should the public should be noticed about the meeting. Commissioner Faust said yes. At this point they have been so backroom and do not want citizen involvement. She believes the School Board/WMEP does not want to answer questions and this may be a way to force them to do so. Commissioner Hovland ' asked if she would envision publishing for a meeting between the same group, 2 excluding WMEP and including a developer. Commissioner Faust said the meeting should be published. Commissioner Hovland said at this time the School District is being looked at as a developer. If staff meets with a developer, and one Commissioner is in attendance, should that be an open meeting. Commissioner Faust asked if he thought it should be open. Commissioner Hovland said no, he did not think so, it is too preliminary. He believes a time will come when a proposal is presented to then decide whether the site is used as mixed use, a traditional developer route, or the WMEP/Senior Citizens Center/Library route. Following that decision, public hearings would be held to hear public opinions both pro and con. The HRA/Council has to decide how the land is used and Commissioner Faust wants to allow everyone wishing to be heard to be heard. Commissioner Hovland believes the whole HRA/Council wants the process to work that way also. Meetings similar to staff meetings do not require public notice nor participation and may ultimately impede the process to keep things moving. Commissioner Faust believes the School District does not seem to get it together. The City is spending $15,000 per month or $240,000/year waiting for WMEP to come forward with a proposal. Waiting for WMEP to bring a proposal forward does not seem fiscally responsible to her. Commissioner Hovland pointed out the funds could be addressed when we deal with a particular developer on a particular idea. He said this is a legitimate concern but could be a part of the negotiation process when a route is established on how to recoup the carrying costs. Chair Smith explained he indicated at the Regular Council meeting that Director Hughes, Frank Bennett, Ken Dragseth, and himself would meet and minutes of that meeting would be provided to the HRA/Council. He explained he held the meeting to jump start something. Someone needs to bring forth a proposal whether it is the School District and WMEP or someone from the outside. The City must do the same. Following presentation of a proposal, public hearings will be scheduled. The ultimate use of the land is the HRA/Council's call and WMEP or the School District is merely a developer. The City will hold public hearings on the issue and to what extent the School District holds public meetings is their call. Chair Smith believes nothing is trying to be accomplished that is not in the public arena. Commissioner Faust said residents in the neighborhood need to be notified. Chair Smith said they would be notified once a proposal comes forward. Commissioner Faust said a proposal did come forward and she has a copy of it. Chair Smith said the HRA/Council will make no decision without public input. Chair Smith suggested the neighbors get involved in the planning process and talk to the people bringing forth the proposal. Commissioner Faust said as she reads the questions and answers submitted by WMEP, it seems the proposal they presented is their final proposal until the City decides whether we would allow them an option on the land. Chair Smith said the way the meeting ended was they need to acquire a development consultant to make a presentation to the City. Commissioner Faust said the letter represented Chair Smith's idea's as the HRA/Council ideas. Chair Smith noted the letter was written before the meeting. Commissioner Faust said the meeting was December 8, the letter written December 9, 1998, from Frank Bennett of WMEP. Chair Smith said the letter was presented at the meeting December 8, but he did not read it. Commissioner Faust read from the letter from Mr. Bennett, "...the 3 Y specifications that the Edina City Council set out", and she was not consulted. Chair . Smith believes what he is referring to is the formal proposal made in October. Commissioner Faust asked if a discussion could be held now regarding the questions. Chair Smith said some closure needs to be brought to this. Commissioner Kelly shared concern with the School District lack of getting the community involved for feedback but realized they are a separate body. He further would reject the HRA/Council doing something that would direct School District action. What the City does should directly involve the public. He voiced further concern with the delay and would impose a deadline for a proposal to come forward. The School District does have a fiscal responsibility to meet a deadline. Commissioner Kelly believes someone has to get the ball rolling and a developer should be given some idea of what the HRA/Council would find acceptable. Commissioner Faust asked if Commissioner Kelly felt the neighbors should be informed that this is a consideration. Commissioner Kelly said they most certainly need to be involved when something is proposed. Commissioner Faust said the neighbors should be informed of any development happening in their area. She realizes everyone wants closure on this issue but if she knew a meeting was going to be held she would have liked some input because she has important things to share if this project is to go forward. If the School District believes this is what the HRA/Council wants, they should be allowed to have input. Chair Smith believed that reference in the WMEP response was from back when proposals were solicited. Commissioner Faust further believes if the School District is • going to submit a proposal to the Council, they need to know what would be acceptable to us. Chair Smith said that will happen when they submit a proposal. The seven school board members are not qualified to flush out a proposal and need to get an expert to help them. Chair Smith reminded Commissioner Faust of their conversation following a regular HRA/Council meeting about the issue. Commissioner Faust said she was not aware there would be another meeting or she would not have called for open meetings. Chair Smith said no meeting was held with the School Board. Commissioner Faust said it was with WMEP. Chair Smith said it was a meeting with one representative of WMEP. Commissioner Faust again stated what the responses from WMEP outlined as, "the plan, as proposed to the City Council includes the five facilities". She again said she wants input if the plan is to go forward. She stated she wants a date certain for them to come back with a plan. Chair Smith said if we want WMEP to develop a proposal they need to be told to hire a developer and work with City staff or someone City staff designates to represent them, and then come back with a proposal. At that time, the HRA/Council either says: "looks good", or "doesn't look good". The development process then begins where the neighborhood and perspective partners in the project are involved. Perspective partners in the plan could be Hennepin County, the Edina School District because of their involvement with a bus garage on the site, WMEP, and the City because we own the land and perhaps would like a Senior Center located there. There are four players and everyone must act through a public body and that includes public meetings. The HRA/Council cannot control how the other public bodies ' work but we can make sure our constituents have full-knowledge of everything that is going on and that has been the intent from day one. 4 Commissioner Ho vland inquired whether WMEP is waiting for us to tell them to come forward with a proposal or are we anticipating that they will come forward if they are interested in making a proposal. Chair Smith answered that WMEP needs to get a developer to tell us whether it is possible to develop the site and ask the HRA/Council to look at their proposal. He believes doing anything more than looking at a proposal constitutes a policy decision being made and we are not ready to do that. Commissioner Faust pointed out she had a meeting with Director Hughes and Planner Larsen recently. They said the School District does not want to proceed with detailed plans until the City commits to them. Chair Smith asked commit to them with what. Commissioner Faust responded to commit to them with an option on the land. Director Hughes referred to the initial RFP process. In October 1997 we invited a number of RFP's in which it stated a finalist would be invited to come back with more detailed plans. In retrospect, that is where the process is now. Thirteen proposals are still out there and one has not been selected to be pursued. He believes the School District is saying, select us in this public mixed use concept as the "finalist" for the development of the site, go out and do financial projections, prepare more detailed plans and then go to the HRA/Council and ask to be selected as the developer. Director Hughes said that is the vernacular in the RFP and still seems to fit. Chair Smith said he disagreed that this should be done. He believed when the meeting was over the School District needed to enlist a developer to bring a proposal forward and to consider what uses the • HRA/Council might require and then see what can be done on the site. At that point the Council would make a decision. He stated he would not be willing to commit to WMEP for anything until their proposal comes forward including the four entities that should participate in it. Commissioner Faust said this seems like a Mexican standoff - they do not want to give us detailed plans until we say they are the number one developer. Chair Smith said Director Hughes is probably technically right but he disagrees. He would not support doing that for WMEP at this time. He looks at this as a start-over time and it should be done quickly. We do not even know if there is enough room on the site. Commissioner Faust said if the plan, as presented by Frank Bennett at a previous meeting, were to follow all City Ordinances, nine acres would be required for a school alone. The plan shows 225 parking spaces. After speaking with Planner Larsen, the Ordinance would require 397 spaces. We are short parking and inquired about installation of a nurp pond. Chair Smith asked how she knows we are short until the developers come forward. Commissioner Faust said she has done research. Chair Smith said the School District has a right to ask for a variance if one would be necessary. Chair Smith inquired whether Commissioner Faust wanted to make a motion or move forward in the method he has outlined, where the public would be involved if a proposal comes forward from WMEP. Commissioner Faust said she would withdraw her motion if she could speak to the responses received from WMEP. She believes the responses raised more questions than they answered. The School program mentioned was the 5 I basic school model that every school in the State should be following. Commissioner • Faust's comments about the December 9, 1998, letter from Frank Bennett, WMEP, were: 1) School hours were not included in the letter which she feels is important; 2) Edina has referendum money that is spent per student - does the referendum money follow the student to the school or would the proposed 40 students in the WMEP school not have those dollars available to them; 3) Comment troubled her about if the school were abandoned - what if the City can not afford to purchase the school at that time could it be sold to someone else; 4) Tax losses covered by acquiring the bus garage site - that would only be offset by the losses of taxes of the TAGS site making it a wash; 5) Troubled with WMEP School using a City park as a playground - In the past the HRA/Council would not sell park property and she feels this is a form of a sale because it will be used for the playground. School will be open year-round and 600 kids on two acres does not make it. If the project goes through, they should have a playground on the site and not use the City park; 6) Neighbors should be notified; 7) Transportation proposed is absurd - 75 students per bus; 8) School staff size was distorted - she checked Countryside School, a 20% smaller school, which has 65 staff members. The letter states the WMEP School would have 40 - 60 staff members; 9) Staff for Kids' Club has not been included which would need parking simultaneously with teachers; 10) Did other Commissioners submit questions - questions up to page 6 of the WMEP responses were from the League of Women Voters and Commissioner Faust objects that the rest of the questions were portrayed as being from the HRA/Council. The questions, in her estimation were racist in nature and she knows the Council did not • submit those questions. Commissioner Faust concluded she talked to the Budget Chairman in the Department of Families and Learning at the State Capital where the $14 million dollars of funding for this project is supposed to be coming from. The Commissioner of the Bureau left December 9. The budget, as previously proposed, will not be carried on and is not in their budget at this time. Chair Smith asked if the project should be abandoned at this time because of that. He believes this is a school issue as well as a developer issue. We have nothing to vote on yet. When we do have something to vote on, they will need to have funding in place. With no funding, he assumes the Council would say no and there would be no project. Commissioner Faust asked if the HRA/Council could have a deadline. Director Hughes indicated in terms of time the first step would be, 1) does the development fit on the site, and 2) is it affordable and can the public and the City support and pay for the elements that are public. He said the City should probably employ a developer, on behalf of the City, to help with that concept and to help evaluate it. We may like to involve a financial consultant to help evaluate the question of affordability and perhaps a planner to help to decide whether it is feasible and fits on the site. This is a big undertaking. He expects to come back with a preliminary schematic and a financial pro forma of what would work on the site within a two to three month process. Chair Smith asked if time could be shorter if we preliminarily look at just the public facilities we would like to have and advise whether these would be feasible. Director ' Hughes said in his judgement he believes this could not be done and added it took six 6 • weeks to evaluate surrounding health clubs. He reminded the HRA/Council that five years was spent planning Edinborough before ground was broken. Commissioner Kelly inquired why we would retain the three entities, i.e. developer, financial planner and planner. Director Hughes believes this is a joint effort. If the school were asked what they hope to accomplish, it would be simply the school and they would not be interested in the bus garage or the library. Commissioner Kelly added whether the School District and WMEP is being treated differently than other with incurring expenses which should be the ex developers. He voiced reluctance 9 p responsibility of the School District. Director Hughes explained Centennial Lakes and Edinborough were joint efforts. Edinborough was similar in that the City owned the land and the different components in Edinborough contributed proportional amounts for the development of the overall development plan for the site. Centennial Lakes was somewhat similar. It can be done either way and either model works. He said he believes it is best for the City to be in control in terms of the planning and in determining the feasibility and layout of the development, rather than one aspect of it. Chair Smith asked if we could follow a suggested model and control the development. Director Hughes said we can do that and looking at this through the eyes of the school, the school sees themselves as one of 13 proposals on the site. They are looking for an indication from the City whether their proposal has risen above the others giving them the wherewithall to expend money and go forth with more detailed plans. Commissioner . Kelly believes experts should be retained. Chair Smith pointed out the School district has to get a development team together. Director Hughes said what he hears is WMEP, at WMEP's expense, employs developers and consultants and prepares a more detailed plan and analysis that we are involved in, at their cost. We participate in the study but they approach it as a traditional developer and come back before the Council with their proposal, including the public elements. Chair Smith noted if this is agreed upon, at this time the City will employ the right people to get our job done. Commissioner Maetzold agrees with the approach but voiced concern with not having done the homework at the front end, we may be soliciting developers with very sketchy plans for a Senior Center and Library. They would then supply pads with our sketchy direction and we would then get into the planning and financing. We might say this is not what we had in mind and need to go back to the drawing board because it is not at all what we wanted. The approach is fine but we may not have finished our homework to go to a developer with enough specifications to meet our needs. Director Hughes said details regarding a Senior Center have been provided during the consideration of the "Y" site. We do not have specific library plans. He believes the Library Board has ongoing developments in other cities and would have good specifications and a program they could provide. Commissioner Faust asked when the drawings are being developed she would like parking standards to be adhered to as this is a land-locked site. Most schools have overflow parking in neighborhoods for a night time event, but this site is land-locked. iChair Smith asked if the School District could identify their issues and where any variances may be required. Commissioner Faust asked what about costs, i.e., the deck 7 over the school bus garage which she believes will be very costly. She asked that a . preliminary cost estimate be included with the proposal. Commissioner Faust concluded what date will the City give them. Commissioner Kelly continued we need to tell them what we need as far as square footage and Hennepin County needs to tell WMEP what they want. At that time, WMEP needs to come forward with a proposal. The timely thing to do then is to retain the experts. Director Hughes commented the experts are still there but on WMEP's dime not the City's dime. The time consuming part is WMEP is doing their work, the School District is following their process, the Library Board has a process, the State of Minnesota is involved, and if the bus garage moves, a developer of the existing bus garage site might be necessary. All of the entities that must touch bases with who they have to touch bases with, is very time consuming. t r him if he were WMEP is last noted one thin he Commissioner Hovland n g that would bother year they were eliminated from the process, due to lack of funding.. Subsequently they came up with funding and have never been invited back into the process. At present, we are going to ask them to come up with comprehensive plans, perhaps more comprehensive than were asked of the other developers in the initial RFPs, and at a probably quite significant cost, without telling them whether they are in favor or disfavor as a primary developer on the site. It should be discussed whether they are, 1) invited back into the process, and 2) we are leaning towards you as a primary use, accompanied by other important things such as the Senior Center and Library in order for them to justify spending the money. Commissioner Faust said she would not • consider any proposal unless she knows all those elements fit on the land. We will not know that until a preliminary plan comes forward. Chair Smith stated that is the reason they are doing research. Commissioner Hovland suggested the Planning Department staff could give us a preliminary answer since we know what we want. Chair Smith commented any developer in town can propose anything they wish. If the proposal doesn't fit, they are turned down and the money is spent to develop the proposal. Commissioner Hovland commented he favored the joint financing on the different elements with a proviso, if this is the plan we adopted, they would bear the full cost of the consulting that had been required to take place. If we are asking them to spend thousands of dollars, we will split the cost at the front end, but if the proposal is accepted this is a cost absorbed by you, the developer. If the proposal is rejected, we bear our part of the costs. Chair Smith asked Director Hughes, after hearing this elaborate discussion to come back at the regular meeting January 4, 1999, and present what the Council could conceptually pass on to WMEP on the timing, the costing, etc. Commissioner Faust thanked the Chair for allowing this discussion to take place at the top of the meeting when the Council is fresh. Chair Smith answered that concerns voiced are legitimate. This is the first time property in the City has been condemned and the first time we have held property like this and we hope values have risen with it. If there is public purpose to be used for part of the property, that cost and holding cost needs to be absorbed by us also. Commissioner Faust said she would continue reminding the Council/HRA how much money we are spending while we are waiting for something to happen on the site. 8 f Commissioner Kelly mentioned the carrying costs are minimal relative to the importance of this piece of land. Commissioner Faust asked if the Kunz Oil building could be rented out for storage. Chair Smith concluded that Director Hughes could respond to that question at the January 4, 1999, regular meeting. No vote was taken on the motion on the floor. There being no further business on the HRA Agenda, Chair Smith declared the meeting adjourned. Executive Director 9