HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-01-09 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 p.m.
January 9, 1996
MEMBERS PRESENT: Frank Bennett, Jean Rydell, Beth Hall, Mike Burley, John
Dovolis, Andrew Montgomery, Dave Crowther, Andy Herring, Jim
Fee, Becky Bennett, Bill Jenkins
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT: Harold Larson, Lila Larson, Dick Armbrust
I. APPROVAL OF THE DECEMBER 12, 1995 MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE DECEMBER 12, 1995 MINUTES. Beth Hall
SECONDED THE MOTION. Minutes Approved.
II. PARK BOND REFERENDA DISCUSSION
Mr. Keprios indicated that Mr. Montgomery pointed out to him there was
an adding error on the information that was sent out which has now been
corrected. He then handed out the revised copy. Mr. Keprios stated
that the only item affected was scenario 3 which is slightly smaller
than what was originally printed. Also, the basketball courts were
entered twice in scenario 3. Mr. Keprios explained that the last
scenario incorporates everything plus what was in the 1988 opinion
survey.
Mr. Keprios noted that scenario 2 is $770,000 greater than scenario 1
and scenario 3 is $366,000 greater than scenario 2. Therefore, scenario
3 is about $1,136,000 greater than scenario 1. Mr. Keprios stated that
it would cost the average household in Edina about $4.17 a year more to
approve scenario 3 versus scenario 1. Mr. Keprios indicated that there
are only a few staff ideas in the proposal, whereas, everything else is
input from residents.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that the City Council is considering the
activities center proposal from the Senior Citizen Advisory Committee.
He stated that he has a meeting next week with the YMCA Executive
Director, the City Manager and Assistant City Manager to talk about a
possible joint venture with the YMCA to add on to their facility. This
is one alternative that is being looked into.
Mr. Jenkins pointed out that the City Council minutes indicate that the
number isn't firm as far as 4.9 million. He asked if that was a staff
number originally or was it from the City Council. Mr. Keprios
explained that the way it started is staff originally proposed
$5,365,000 as a starting point, however, the City Council felt a little
more comfortable with $4.9 million. That is when staff was given the
directive to go out and get community input. Mr. Fee asked if the City
Council is considering raising the number and Mr. Keprios replied they
are considering it. Mr. Keprios indicated that everything is on
schedule and May 7th has officially been adopted as the special election
date.
Mr. Montgomery asked if a skateboarding facility should even be put in
as a possibility in scenario 3 and indicated it is something he would
not want to even consider. Mr. Keprios stated that having a
skateboarding facility came out of the opinion survey. Mr. Burley asked
Mr. Montgomery why he feels this way and Mr. Montgomery replied that he
feels it is a liability issue and that it is not as popular as it was
several years ago. Mr. Montgomery indicated if one person says they
want to do something he doesn't think that we should necessarily list
that as a scenario item.
Mr. Fee questioned a wading pool being put in for $95,000 and Mr.
Jenkins asked which park the pool would be put in at. Mr. Keprios noted
that is yet to be determined and that the wading pool idea also came
from the survey.
Mr. Keprios commented on the skateboard facility and noted that he has
visited a site and has talked with some architects who have designed and
built quite a few skateboarding facilities. He noted that to his
surprise the number of injuries is very, very minimal. He explained
that it ends up being a facility that's really terrific for teens, which
is an age group where there are not a lot of activities other than
organized sports. Ms. Bennett asked if the skateboard facilities are
owned and operated by Park and Recreation Departments or are they
privately owned. Mr. Keprios stated that the concrete skate boarding
parks that he is familiar with are owned by Park and Recreation
Departments and are surprisingly unsupervised. Mr. Keprios indicated
that we used to have a continual problem of kids breaking into the pool
to skateboard before there was security equipment installed.
Mr. Montgomery asked what the idea is behind Tupa Park and Mr. Keprios
explained that the Grange Hall and Cahill School buildings are in need
of fire protection.
MEMORIAL POLICY
Mr. Keprios indicated that he has been receiving a lot of requests from
people wanting to make donations specifically to the Park and Recreation
Department and a lot of them come with strings attached. He noted that
they would like permanent plaques put in the ground to memorialize a
lost loved one. He stated that he has never turned anyone away,
however, he noted that he really questions our procedure on these
plaques. He pointed out that the City Manager has the authority to
decide yes or no. However, before Mr. Keprios makes a recommendation to
the City Manager for a change in procedure and policy he would like to
receive input from the Park Board regarding the issue.
Mr. Burley commented that in other communities it seems to work to have
a simple plaque. Mr. Jenkins pointed out that we receive almost too
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many of them. Mr. Burley stated that maybe a price evaluation needs to
be in place. Mr. Fee explained that the Edina Country Club recently
purchased a plaque board and placed it in the front lobby where a
description of the gift and the person's name is listed. He noted they
have eliminated putting different items on the course such as plaques,
benches, trees, etc.
Mr. Keprios stated that the current policy is anything over $5,000 needs
the City Council's approval before we can even accept a gift and then
the council will determine what form of acknowledgment will be given.
However, for donations under $5,000 it's left up to staff to decide.
Mr. Keprios stated that one idea was that we will list everyone who has
donated anything to the Park Department in the back of the Activities
Directory instead of putting plaques in the ground. He pointed out that
this issue is also becoming a concern at Braemar Golf Course.
Ms. Rydell asked if a permanent plaque, such as the one at the old
Cahill School site, could be placed at Arneson Acres with the names of
people listed on it. Mr. Keprios indicated that the plaque at the old
Cahill site is a very expensive cast bronze plaque. Mr. Keprios
suggested having a plaque more like the one in the Council Chambers
where the athletic presidents and volunteers are listed. He asked then
if so much money was donated would a name then be placed on the plaque.
Mr. Fee explained at the Country Club they established thresholds for
the different gifts donated. He indicated that each little individual
plate is put on a nice wooden background and has the description of the
gift and the name of the family or person. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Fee
what is done if someone wants to give $50.00 toward the course. Mr. Fee
stated that they set a threshold and there are three different areas to
choose from such as improvements at the clubhouse, improvements to the
golf course and general improvements around the grounds.
Mr. Jenkins indicated that he likes the idea of a dedicated plaque or
board in the community or even several of them with thresholds built in
to acknowledge these types of donations. Also, if there are other
uncertain ones they could be placed in the Activities Directory or About
Town so that everyone is acknowledged in one way or another.
Mr. Bennett stated that it seems to him that a lot of the plaques,
especially the ones at Wooddale Park, are for young children who have
passed away and he feels this is a healing process for the parents. He
suggested having one master board at certain parks so you could still
have that component because he's not sure that people would necessarily
give a memorial if it's going to be placed at a park where they never
go. Mr. Keprios stated that the issue is some people feel that Wooddale
Park is starting to look like a cemetery. Mr. Keprios stated that his
own personal opinion is he doesn't object to having little plaques on
the back of benches where you have to be looking to see them. However,
if the Park Board would like to continue the current practice that would
be fine with him.
Mr. Fee suggested having permanent facilities or structures, maybe
having four or five categories where a recognition box could be placed.
Each category could have a threshold where there is a list of items that
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need to be done.
Mr. Jenkins asked Mr. Keprios how many requests he receives each year
and he noted that he received a dozen last year. Mr. Jenkins asked how
much money do we receive and it was noted it typically ranges from $250
to $500.
Mr. Crowther indicated that he is in favor of having an annual
acknowledgment in one of the bulletins that goes out and get away from
having the individual plaques. He noted that he feels the parks belong
to all of us and when you put a memorial plaque to one individual you
are individualizing that part of the park as opposed to keeping it open
to everyone. Mr. Crowther stated that Mr. Bennett pointed out that it
is part of the healing process, however, he's not sure that the Park and
Recreation Department needs to help in that process. Mr. Fee noted that
he agrees with Mr. Crowther because the last thing he wants to do is go
through another situation like the Lewis family incident at Wooddale
Park a year and a half ago. Mr. Dovolis noted that he agrees with what
Mr. Fee was saying in that there should be a list of criteria on what's
needed in the parks during the year and they can then donate that. Mr.
Fee commented that he agrees, even if it's a tree or a bench, etc. the
family can still identify with it.
Mr. Keprios noted that he appreciates the Park Board's input. Mr.
Jenkins suggested that the Park Board think about this a little bit and
discuss it again at a later time.
i IV. OTHER
A. Fees - Mr. Dovolis indicated that he feels the Park Board should
question the managers on some of the fee structures. He explained it is
not for the fact that they don't know their job or what the fee
structure is but so we can somehow develop money by adding a dollar or
two to something the goes into the Park and Recreation fund. Therefore,
we can avoid some of these referendums or help pay for some of these
referendums in the future. He pointed out that if you charge $2.00 or
$3.00 more at Braemar Golf Course, Arena, Gun Range, etc. and get the
money earmarked just for Park and Recreation it could help a lot. Mr.
Burley stated that the Mayor told him he will be speaking to the Park
Board on this issue at the February meeting.
o Mr. Crowther asked how many other communities are self-perpetuating and
do not have an ongoing need for more money via referendums or what not.
He asked if anyone has come up with a system where they don't have to
use referendums in order to keep their park system up. Mr. Crowther
stated that he suspects the answer is no and that referendums are a part
of public government. Mr. Keprios stated that some communities, such as
Richfield, rejuvenate their park systems one park per year out of their
capital plan and developers fund.
Mr. Dovolis again pointed out that what he is saying is that one or two
dollars over a period of years can add up to a lot of things being done
in the Park Department in the future. Mr. Burley noted that this way
the users are paying for the facilities and not all of the taxpayers.
C
B. Braemar Arena - Mr. Fee commented that he and Ms. Bennett have
received some comments that the facilities at Braemar Arena are not
being maintained very well, the bathrooms, concession stand area, locker
rooms, etc. He noted that in his opinion it's consistently like that.
He stated that he realizes there is a lot of activity going on out
there, however, it does represent the City. Mr. Fee noted that he feels
a better job could be done maintaining and keeping the facilities clean.
Mr. Keprios stated that he will look into the issue.
C. Lewis Park - Mr. Montgomery indicated that the soccer lights were
on at Lewis Park the other day. He asked what time the maintenance
people work on the rinks in the morning. Mr. Keprios explained that
sometimes the maintenance workers go into the warming houses to hang up
their hoses, etc. Also, the sweepers come around and then go to another
rink and then the flooders come in. Mr. Keprios indicated that it can
take 15 to 20 minutes to get the lights back on after they have been
turned off.
D. Third Hockey Rink - Mr. Burley noted that he could use some help
in understanding why we need a third hockey rink. He indicated that if
the vote were to take place today, he would vote against it. Mr. Burley
noted that other sports have similar scheduling problems and we are not
building facilities for them. He explained that he can certainly
understand the referendum for the park improvements but he can't
rationalize when someone asks him why are we building a third rink. Mr.
Fee stated that his feeling is the general population has the same
question. Mr. Keprios explained that it really comes down to a shortage
of ice time. It's not just in Edina, it's statewide.
Mr. Jenkins indicated that the basketball scenario had x amount of teams
between girls and boys using gym space. However, hockey in the next few
years is going to increase 50% to 60% in teams basically overnight. Mr.
Burley indicated that he thinks people are questioning if this has to be
a state of the art new indoor arena. He also asked if there is another
community that has three rinks and it was noted that Bloomington has
three indoor ice rinks and this past year they had one less hockey team
than Edina. It was also noted that Edina cannot get any of
Bloomington's ice time because it is being used by all of Bloomington's
teams.
Mr. Bennett indicated that he has two children who started in the Mite
program this year and asked why the program starts in October and not in
December when the ice freezes outside. He also pointed out that
apparently there are two or three days a week that the boys varsity team
has only 45 minutes of practice which isn't enough time for them to get
things done. Mr. Bennett indicated that he would also like to have
Braemar Arena closed to Edina residents on Sunday mornings.
Mr. Burley asked how much of the facility is used by Edina residents.
Mr. Fee stated that it is used 100% for the regular available hockey
time. Mr. Crowther stated that figure skating is actually a bigger user
of ice time than the hockey association. The figure skating club is
also restricted in the number of people they can handle because of the
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shortage of ice. Mr. Burley asked what percentage of Edina residents
are in the figure skating program. It was noted that it is close to 85%
to 90%.
Ms. Bennett pointed out that she was recently with parents of Bantam age
kids and there was a real misconception among them that Mr. Thayer has
not been able to sell all of the indoor ice. She indicated that she
informed these people that all of the ice has been sold and has been
sold into next year.
Mr. Jenkins indicated that the fundamental answer to Mr. Burley's
question is it's a supply and demand issue. There are so many hours
available and a lot more people and teams are being added and that's why
you need more ice. Mr. Keprios also pointed out that the other
fundamental problem today is the older kids don't want to play their
games on outdoor ice. Mr. Burley stated that is where he thinks people
are having a'problem with this. It's no question it's for the kids, but
it's for the hockey kids and figure skating kids which is a specialized
business and he doesn't know what percentage of the community's kids are
involved in that. Mr. Crowther replied that by argument the golf course
is specialized for people who golf and yet we put millions into that.
Mr. Crowther pointed out that we have to do what is good for the
community.
Ms. Bennett indicated that she heard the Bloomington concessions have
generated $100,000 profit. She noted that it is open all of the time
and they are always stocked with good product there. She stated that
with a third rink maybe there could be a concession stand that is open
more often and try to make a profit. Mr. Fee asked who runs the
concession stand at the Braemar baseball fields and Mr. Keprios answered
that it differs from season to season. The Baseball Association has
been running it during the summer and have made a nice profit. Mr.
Jenkins asked who runs the concession stand at Braemar arena. Mr.
Keprios indicated that Mr. Thayer does during the high school games and
the Hockey Moms and parents run it during the Edina International Hockey
Tournament.
E. Baseball - Mr. Bennett asked what is the relationship between
baseball and the Park Board for the second and third graders. He
indicated that he has heard a lot of his sons talk about playing in
Minneapolis and Hopkins. Mr. MacHolda explained that this year the 7
year-olds will play coach pitch which are run internally. The 8 and 9
years old play jugball through the Edina Baseball Association. The
Jugball program has hired instructors to run the pitching machine and
after this they launch into the volunteer program which begins at age
10. This year is the first year for the Grapefruit League, which is for
10 year-olds. What they are looking to do is have the kids pitch to
their teammates to encourage good pitches to hit. Mr. MacHolda
indicated that Jon Edwards is the President this year and that they are
looking at doing some aggressive and positive things. They are looking
at funding a day camp and skills clinic to the house league kids. Mr.
Herring stated that he thought developmentally we don't want kids trying
to throw fast balls. Mr. MacHolda explained that the idea came from Jim
Nunn who is the Legion Coach and lead instructor for the Jugball
M.
V.
program. His thought on the 10 year old pitching is that teammates
pitch to each other so they are throwing melons to hit over the fence.
Therefore, your teammate will pitch to you so it's throwing strikes,
however, you are not trying to strike the person out. It's a nice easy
ball to encourage the kids to hit the ball. Mr. Herring stated that he
is not sure if we want to be doing this and Mr. MacHolda replied that
they have received mixed feelings. Mr. Crowther brought up the point
that he feels this is an association's call and not the responsibility
of the Edina Park Board.
Dave Crowther MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 8:20 P.M. Jean Rydell
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.
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