HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-09-25 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes RegularAGENDA
REGULAR MEETING OF THE
EDINA PLANNING COMMISSION
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 7:30 PM
EDINA CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
4801 WEST 50TH STREET
I. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES:
August 28, 2002
II. NEW BUSINESS:
P-02-4
LD-02-8
Final Development Plan
Dairy Queen
7700 Normandale Boulevard
Lot Division
6201 Brookview Avenue
4213 West 62nd Street
III. OTHER BUSINESS:
• Tree Replacement Ordinance
IV. NEXT MEETING DATE:
October 30, 2002
V. ADJOURNMENT:
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF
THE EDINA PLANNING COMMISSION
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2002, 7:30 P.M.
EDINA CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
4801 WEST 50TH STREET
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Chair, Gordon Johnson, John Lonsbury, Ann Swenson, David Byron, Helen
McClelland, David Runyan, Geof Workinger and Stephen Brown
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Lorelei Bergman
STAFF PRESENT:
Craig Larsen and Jackie Hoogenakker
I. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES:
The minutes of the August 28, 2002, meeting were filed as submitted.
II. NEW BUSINESS:
P-02-4
Dairy Queen, Inc.
7700 Normandale Boulevard
Request: Removal of existing restaurant building to construct
DQ Grill & Chill
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission Dairy Queen, Inc. has purchased the
existing Embers Restaurant building and is requesting a final development plan
to permit razing the existing building and constructing a new DQ Grill and Chill.
Mr. Larsen said the plans submitted for development also include the DQ sign.
Mr. Larsen stated the sign requires variances and they can be granted at this
hearing if recommended.
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Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends Final Development Plan approval
subject to watershed district permits. Continuing, Mr. Larsen added staff
supports a height variance with the sign height not to exceed 20 feet and sign
area variance not to exceed 100 square feet.
Mr. Nick Sperides and John Russell were present representing the
proponent, Dairy Queen, Inc.
Commissioner Swenson asked Mr. Larsen if parking complies with
ordinance standards. Mr. Larsen responded parking for the proposed restaurant
complies with ordinance standards. Expanding Mr. Larsen reported the
restaurant has a seating capacity of 114 and has 11 employees working on the
major shift, which creates the need for 51 spaces, 53 are provided.
Chairman Johnson said as he views the proposed signage he can
understand why the Grill and Chill needs a sign over 8 feet in height. He pointed
out this location is very unusual and traffic on Highway 100 would never see an 8
foot sign. Mr. Larsen agreed. He pointed out this site is unusual in the City and
the zoning of the subject site is different from the adjoining properties. He
pointed out the abutting properties, T.G.I. Fridays, and the Radisson Hotel are
located in Bloomington and the adjoining service station that is located in Edina
is zoned PCD-4, which is a different zoning than the subject site. Concluding,
Mr. Larsen explained that is the reason staff could support a sign height
variance, and sign area variance up to 100 square feet.
Commissioner Runyan questioned the height of the proposed sign on the
plans submitted. Mr. Sperides responded the height of the sign in the photo is 22
feet. Mr. Sperides said Dairy Queen has no problem with the 20-foot height limit
requested by staff, and will limit the sign to 20 feet.
Mr. Sperides addressed the Commission and said Dairy Queen is very
excited about the introduction to casual dining along with the traditional Dairy
Queen "treats" usually identified with Dairy Queen. Continuing, Mr. Sperides
said in his opinion what is proposed is a plus for the site. With regard to the sign
Mr. Sperides explained the 3 pieces of the sign(area) are crucial to Dairy Queen.
Mr. Sperides told the Commission the proposed sign contains all the elements of
the corporate image. Mr. Sperides reiterated Dairy Queen has no problem with
the height limitation of 20 feet as recommended by staff.
Commissioner McClelland said while she supports the Final Development
Plan she has trouble supporting the sign as proposed. She said she could
support the freestanding sign at 20 feet as stipulated by staff. She added in her
opinion eliminating the reader board is a potential way to reduce the sign area to
stay within the 100 square feet stipulated by staff.
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Mr. Sperides said he understands staff is supporting sign variances for the
proposed sign and appreciates their support, but explained if the sign area of
the sign is limited to 100 square feet crucial elements of the Dairy Queen
traditional sign will be compromised or eliminated. He pointed out when the sign
is measured according to City standards much of the sign area is "air space". He
concluded the sign(s) is not a solid 145 square feet, and presented to the
Commission a photo of how the proposed sign will look.
Commissioner McClelland reiterated she supports staff's position. She
stated in her opinion Dairy Queen is already "getting a deal" with regard to
signage. Commissioner McClelland added, again that this is just her opinion that
the reader board could go.
Commissioner Byron commented it appears important to Dairy Queen that
they retain all three elements of their sign and questioned the methodology
behind eliminating the reader board.
Commissioner Workinger asked Mr. Larsen if the signs located on the
proposed new building comply with sign ordinance standards. Mr. Larsen
responded all wall signs comply with ordinance standards reiterating the
proposed freestanding sign is the only sign that requires variances. Continuing,
Mr. Larsen acknowledged a non-conforming freestanding sign has existed at this
location (change to the sign ordinance created the non-conforminity), but once a
sign is removed (as in this case) the new sign must be erected in compliance
with present ordinance standards.
Commissioner McClelland asked the representatives for Dairy Queen if
Dairy Queen is planning on remodeling all DQ locations within the metro area.
Mr. Sperides responded the goal is to renovate all locations. He explained this
concept is just being introduced into this area and it is the goal of the corporate
office to construct 12 new restaurants in this area over the next three years and
remodel the existing 10. Mr. Sperides informed the Commission the corporate
office for Dairy Queen is in Edina.
Commissioner McClelland added another concern she has is with traffic
and if the traffic flow will be accommodated with the changes to this site. She
said her concern is with the drive through and left turns. Mr. Larsen told the
Commission the City Engineer, Wayne Houle has reviewed and approved the
traffic plan as presented. Mr. Larsen said staff could have the Traffic Safety
Committee review the plan if the Commission has reservations.
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Planning Commission Minutes
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Commissioner Runyan asked Mr. Larsen to clarify for him how staff
calculates sign area. Mr. Larsen explained our ordinance stipulates that the
smallest rectangle which can be made to circumscribe a sign panel which bears
the letters, message, symbol, logo or figure. In this instance the smallest
rectangle is wrapped around all three signs, which measured 145 square feet.
Staff is supporting only 100 square feet. Mr. Larsen acknowledged our
ordinance may be difficult to understand because many would measure the
square footage of each sign and add them together, but our ordinance does not
operate that way. Concluding, Mr. Larsen reiterated when the existing pylon sign
was removed that removal triggered compliance with the ordinance.
Commissioner Brown asked if DQ is more concerned with visibility from
Highway 100 or the frontage road. Mr. Sperides responded both.
Commissioner Lonsbury noted on the proposed plans an outdoor seating
area is depicted that seats 22 and asked Mr. Larsen if those 22 seats are
reflected in the parking calculations. Mr. Larsen said City ordinance is silent on
that point, and parking requirements are not increased to accommodate those
spaces. He added a majority of City restaurants request out door seating during
warmer months, and the City will review and approve out door seating if
adequate space is provided. Continuing, Mr. Larsen pointed out the weather in
Minnesota prohibits outdoor seating for the majority of the year and to date staff
has not observed any issues with regard to outdoor seating at restaurant
locations that provide this service during a limited time period.
Commissioner Byron asked what the height of the proposed building is.
Mr. Sperides said the building height is 20 feet and if the parapet is included the
height is around 22 feet.
Commissioner Swenson moved to recommend Final Development Plan
approval subject to watershed district permits - approval is also conditioned on
referring traffic flow to the Traffic Safety Committee. Commissioner Swenson
moved to recommend sign variance approval to allow a freestanding sign not to
exceed 20 feet in height with a sign area of not more than 100 square feet.
Commissioner Lonsbury seconded the motion.
Commissioner Byron stated he couldn't support the motion as presented.
He added he has no problem with the Final Development Plan but believes the
sign variances should be granted as presented and revised by the proponent (20
foot height, 145 square foot sign area). Commissioner Byron said in considering
variances in his opinion one must look at the environment and in this instance the
City would be hard pressed to find a site with similar constraints. He pointed out
the site abuts the City of Bloomington, a major highway, a frontage road and a
PCD-4 zoned service station. Commissioner Byron said and again, this is just
his opinion, that the 45 square foot difference in sign area would not be noticed.
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He said eliminating one aspect of DQ Trademark (reader board) as suggested
might not be a realistic request, and he is uncomfortable re-designing a sign.
Chairman Johnson said the position the Commission should take in
granting variances would be that the site is different and unique.
Commissioner Byron said from the outset signage is unique and viewing
signage creatively should be viewed as positive not negative.
Commissioner Runyan commented when he looks at the proposed sign
he doesn't feel it is too massive because there is a lot of "air space" included in
the measurement. Mr. Larsen said he agrees there is a lot of "air space" when
measuring this sign and staff's position is that this site is unique which is why
staff supports a 100 square foot sign area and a height variance. Concluding,
Mr. Larsen said the final outcome is up to the Commission and Council. He
reiterated staff does agree this is a unique site and hardships exist with regard to
signage.
Commissioner McClelland pointed out the site is zoned PCD-2, which
prohibits signs exceeding 8 feet in height. The staff has recommended that a
height variance be granted recognizing a hardship. Commissioner McClelland
pointed out what DQ is requesting is beyond staffs' recommendation.
Continuing, Commissioner McClelland said in her opinion Highway 100 isn't a
unique enough situation to support such a large sign area variance. She stated
she is worried other commercial properties may request similar variances.
Concluding, Commissioner McClelland said she doesn't think the message board
is essential, and if it were removed the sign would meet with staffs
recommendation.
Commissioner Workinger questioned if the message board will be backlit.
Mr. Sperides said the board is backlit only where there is text.
Chairman Johnson called for the vote on Commissioner Swenson's
motion to recommend Final Development Plan and sign variance approval
subject to staff conditions. Ayes; Lonsbury, Swenson, McClelland. Nays; Byron,
Runyan, Workinger, Brown and Johnson. Motion failed 3-5.
Commissioner Byron moved to recommend Final Development Plan
approval subject to staff conditions and to recommend sign variance approval
subject to the plans presented with the modification agreed to by the proponent
that the sign height is 20 feet, not the depicted 22 feet. Commissioner Runyan
seconded the motion.
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Commissioner Brown said there appears to be confusion on the sign
variances. Commission Runyan agreed, he added most of the confusion is
focused around the sign area variance and the way our sign code reads.
Commissioner Lonsbury agreed the sign code may be interpreted
differently, but in his opinion that is a different conversation. Commissioner
Lonsbury said the focus of the Commission at this time appears to be either
recommending approval or denial of a Final Development Plan with sign
variances. Commissioner Lonsbury asked for guidance from the Chair, noting
the Zoning Board usually hears variances, and questioning if the thought process
is different at the Commission level.
Chairman Johnson said in his opinion the thought process with regard to
variances is the same for both the Zoning Board and Commission. He said first
staff determines that a variance is needed. When that is determined he said he
looks at if there is a unique reason why a site can't be held to ordinance
standards. Continuing, Chairman Johnson said his views may differ from some
Commissioner's but in his opinion variances are not necessarily a bad thing, and
each situation must be viewed individually. He said in this situation enforcing a
sign height of 8 feet is a hardship, pointing out in this location it would be like not
having a sign. He added he appreciates the difficulty the 45 square feet presents
to some Commissioners.
Commissioner McClelland said in her opinion this is not the place to
change anything (sign ordinance) and the Zoning Board should hear this (sign
variance) not the Commission. Mr. Larsen interjected and said it is not unusual
to have the Commission and Council hear variance requests and not the zoning
board. He pointed out all Commissioner's sit on the Zoning Board and have
heard at different times at the Commission level variance requests from
developer's of subdivisions, final development plans, conditional use permits, etc.
A lengthy discussion ensued between Commission Members with regard
to the requested sign variances. Commission Members appeared split in their
discussion. All Commissioners supported Final Development Plan approval and
a sign height variance, but the proposed sign area variance divided the
Commission.
Chairman Johnson called for a vote on Commissioner Byron's motion to
recommend Final Development Plan approval and approval of the freestanding
sign as presented. Ayes; Byron, Workinger, Runyan, Johnson. Nays; Lonsbury,
Swenson, McClelland, Brown. Motion failed.
Chairman Johnson clarified for the Council the way he interprets the
proceedings is the Commission recommends approval of the Final Development
Plan for the site and building but has no recommendation with regard to signage.
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Planning Commission Minutes
August 28, 2002
Page 7
LD-02-8 6201 Association and Charles and Lynette Walling
6201 Brookview Avenue
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission a recent survey on the property
indicated that the irrigation system for 6201 Brookview Avenue encroached on
the property of 4213 West 62nd Street. It was assumed that the power pole was
on the property line, when it was actually about 3 feet east of the line. The
proposed lot division would place the irrigation system on the Brookview
property, avoiding the cost of relocating the system. Both properties continue to
comply with ordinance requirements.
Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends approval.
Commissioner Workinger moved to recommend lot division approval.
Commissioner Swenson seconded the motion. All voted aye; motion carried.
III. OTHER BUSINESS:
Mr. Larsen reminded the Commission in their previous packet a draft tree
ordinance was provided. At this time Mr. Larsen explained the Council is
considering adding a "Tree Ordinance" to the Code, and looking at
ordinances from other cities. Mr. Larsen informed the Commission in a
months time the Commission should have available to them a draft ordinance
preferred by City Council.
IV. COMMISSION BUSINESS:
Commission Members were informed the City of Richfield will hold a
meeting on Monday, October 7, 2002, at 4 PM. All Commissioner Members
are welcome to attend. The topic is - Associating Fully Developed
Suburbs/2030 Metropolitan Council Blueprint.
V. ADJOURNMENT:
The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 PM
Jackie Hoogenakker
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