HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-12-09 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD MINUTES
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1997
7:30 P.M.
MANAGER’S CONFERENCE ROOM
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MEMBERS PRESENT: Andy Herring, Phyllis Kohler, Jean Rydell, Beth Hall, David
Crowther, John Dovolis, Jim Fee, Bill Jenkins, Andrew
Montgomery
MEMBERS ABSENT: Becky Bennett, Mike Burley
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, John Valliere
OTHERS PRESENT: Gary Zachman, Pete Anderson, Gayle Gaumer
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I. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 18, 1997 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER 17, 1997 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Phyllis Kohler SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. 1998 MGA WOMEN’S MID-AMATEUR CHAMPIONSHIP
Mr. Keprios stated that Mr. Valliere has made a request to the Park Board to support his
recommendation to host the 1998 MGA Women’s Mid-Amateur Championship at
Braemar Golf Course.
Mr. Valliere explained that basically each golf course takes a turn, so to speak, in hosting
golfing events throughout the state. He indicated that last year was the first Women’s
Mid-Amateur Championship and it was held at Fox Meadow. Mr. Valliere stated that a
lot of women play golf at Braemar and feels they would enjoy watching this great golf
event. He pointed out that golf courses donate their facilities when they host these types
of championships. Mr. Valliere explained that this event will be a minor inconvenience
for some players on Monday and Tuesday but feels the golfers will understand.
Mr. Montgomery asked when was the last time Braemar hosted a similar tournament and
it was noted approximately nine years ago Braemar hosted the Men’s Senior
Championship. Mr. Valliere also noted that Braemar has hosted the Women’s Senior
Amateur, in which a woman from Braemar won the tournament. Mr. Montgomery asked
if this tournament is a qualifier for another tournament and Mr. Valliere replied no, this is
the State Championship.
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Mr. Dovolis commented that he has no reservations about doing this because every club
donates their facilities for tournaments and feels this is a very positive thing that we can
do for the Minnesota Golf Association as well as our own community. Mr. Fee added
that this is also great publicity.
John Dovolis MOVED TO ACCEPT THE INVITATION TO HOST THE MGA
WOMEN’S MID-AMATEUR CHAMPIONSHIP FOR 1998 UNDER JOHN
VALLIERE’S DIRECTION. Jim Fee SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. EDINA HOCKEY ASSOCIATION:
A. Bantam C Team
Mr. Keprios indicated that as his staff report indicates he met with the president and vice-
president of the Edina Hockey Association as well as with Julia Bertrand. However, in
his staff report he noted there were 19 skaters and no goalies when actually there were 20
skaters and no goalies for the Bantam C players. Mr. Fee asked isn’t that an inordinate
amount to have left over in which Mr. Keprios replied he doesn’t know if it’s inordinate
but stated he remembers when they used to have 6 in-house Bantam C teams. Mr. Fee
asked isn’t part of the problem not being able to get a coach because if there were enough
for a third team you would then have the problem of finding a coach. Mr. Keprios replied
that yes, every association does run into that issue. Mr. Keprios noted that the ideal
would be to have 15 skaters and 2 goalies. Mr. Keprios indicated that last year the Edina
Hockey Association hosted rainbow teams at the Bantam C level as well as the U15 girls
level. Mr. Keprios stated that 3 Bantam C hockey players from Edina have volunteered
to play with the St. Louis Park team.
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that after meeting with Mr. Sitek and Mr. Reise of
the Edina Hockey Association he feels that the Edina Hockey Association’s philosophy
and policies are still in keeping with what the Park Board has laid out. He indicated,
however, that their first choice would be for all Edina kids to stay in Edina if possible.
Mr. Keprios explained that rainbow teams are done with all of the hockey associations
throughout the state.
Mr. Keprios explained that he was informed by a few parents that there was a closed door
meeting with players, parents, Mr. Reise and Mr. Sitek of the EHA. Allegations were
made that at that meeting the president made the comment that some players have to go to
St. Louis Park to play or they won’t have a team to play on. Mr. Keprios stated that he is
hearing two sides to that story. He indicated that Mr. Sitek stated that is not what he said
and if he did it was a misinterpretation. The Edina Hockey Association was looking for
volunteers.
Mr. Herring asked what if there were no volunteers, what were they going to do. Mr.
Keprios replied they would have to go to a plan B in which they would probably have to
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find another community to attach to. Another option may be to stack up some of the B2
teams and instead of each team having 15 skaters and 2 goalies there would be 17 skaters
and 2 goalies. Mr. Keprios noted that he is not going to judge if that option should have
been exercised. That is the hockey association’s decision, it is not the Park Board’s. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that it was actually St. Louis Park who came looking for kids because
they didn’t have enough participants to field a team. They were pleading with other
communities to help them out.
Mr. Herring indicated that he doesn’t understand why the hockey association was holding
a try-out when they were looking for volunteers. Ms. Kohler stated that she received a
call from a hockey board member who told her that another child voluntarily went from
Edina’s C team to St. Louis Park. This particular child stated that the reasons he
volunteered were because he is a St. Thomas Academy student, he liked the coach at St.
Louis Park better, it is a higher caliber of hockey, and since there are only two teams they
are able to play more. She also noted that this person told her that all of the volunteers
came up on their own and wanted to go, no one was counseled to leave. Mr. Fee added
that he also was told the same thing, no one was forced or coerced, everyone voluntarily
went on their own.
Mr. Herring indicated that he received two calls from parents who were at that meeting
and when he asked them to attend tonight’s Park Board meeting they declined. He noted
they told him they were worried about retribution against their kids. Mr. Herring
indicated that he finds this to be very disturbing and asked what do you say to somebody
who says they are worried about retribution with their kid.
Mr. Herring asked what if you take the worse case scenario and kids were forced to go to
a St. Louis Park team, is there anything as a Park Board that we can do about it. Mr.
Keprios replied that if he was told by the hockey board that they were forcing kids to play
at St. Louis Park, then yes he would take issue with that and ask for a very good
explanation. However, that was not the case and the hockey association assures him no
one was forced to volunteer to leave the Edina program. Mr. Herring also indicated that
he was told that at this meeting it was not made clear that if they didn’t have enough
volunteers they would still make room so everyone can skate at Braemar. Mr. Keprios
indicated that he doesn’t know for sure what was said because he is hearing two different
sides to the story. Mr. Keprios commented that the hockey association has said that if any
of the volunteers are not happy at St. Louis Park than they are more than welcome to
come back.
Mr. Crowther commented that it seems there is a communication problem between the
parents and the hockey association but he doesn’t see it as being a Park Board problem.
He noted that if the hockey association has done a poor job of communicating than we
can suggest to them to do a better job, however, we do not have any facts that say that
anything has been done wrong. Mr. Fee indicated that until we see some kind of
discrimination, which we haven’t, this is a common problem. He noted that every year
there are rainbow teams because you are always going to have some stragglers left over
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and the cities try and work together to accommodate these kids. Mr. Fee added that he
feels this a better option for kids to be able to go somewhere and skate on a regular basis
rather than sit on the bench 90% of the time. This way they are still able to skate even
though it might not be their first choice. Mr. Herring stated that the key is if the kid
wants to stay in Edina and sit on the bench 90% of the time they can make that choice.
Mr. Herring asked if the Park Board can do something to ensure that there is proper
communication as to what our philosophy is for those associations who are using our
facilities. He noted that everyone in Edina should have the opportunity to play in Edina
no matter what their skill level is. Mr. Keprios pointed out that the only group he knows
of who intentionally and willfully have not abided by that rule is the girls traveling team
tennis. He indicated that they hold try-outs and if you don’t make it, you don’t have a
place to play. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks this is an issue that is going to come up as
we go down the road and have these types of discussions. In fact, there will be a whole
laundry list of issues to discuss as we begin to establish guidelines and priority use of
facilities. Mr. Keprios suggested to Mr. Herring that he may want to make a motion to
reiterate the fact that if kids want to play here, that’s their option, we need to find a way
to make that happen. Mr. Herring asked isn’t that already an existing policy and
indicated that he would just like to make sure that it is communicated that no one is going
to be forced to go, kids always have the right to play in Edina. Mr. Keprios pointed out
that there is no written policy on that specific issue. Mr. Herring asked is it a Park Board
philosophy and Mr. Keprios replied that it doesn’t exist in writing. The only written
statement of policy is a one page segment of the minutes that was adopted on November
8, 1977. It really doesn’t say anywhere that all kids will have the opportunity to play in
Edina if they want to. Mr. Herring commented that our mission is that all boys and girls
will receive an equal opportunity to participate in any activity at whatever ability level
they might play.
Mr. Montgomery asked if any other sports have this rainbow concept. Mr. MacHolda
explained that in football for the upper age levels they have combined with other
communities to make a league because there were not enough teams in each community
to form their own leagues. Mr. MacHolda also pointed out that in traveling soccer last
summer there were not enough kids at the U17 level to form their own team and
Minnetonka had the same problem. Therefore, the two communities combined together
to form a team. They played 50% of their games in Edina and 50% in Minnetonka.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he feels it would be premature to make a recommendation at
this point because there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed before we can make
recommendations.
Mr. Zachman, whose son is a Bantam C player, stated that he is still dismayed to find out
that the Park Board as well as Mr. Keprios feel this is a matter of interpretation. He
indicated that he was at that hockey meeting and heard the terms “dreads of Edina
Hockey” and “C Hockey is Hack Hockey” which are terms that should not be used when
addressing kids who are about to go on the ice. He stated that he looked around the room
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and saw 7 bantam boys with tears welling up in their eyes after hearing that
compassionate plea for volunteers. Mr. Zachman pointed out that his son talked to the
coach immediately after the meeting and the coach told him they didn’t want him to go,
they wanted him to stay and play defense. He noted that his son, however, had enough
personal integrity to go where he knows it’s better for him. He stated that the unknown
being better than the environment that was conveyed by that plea by the esteemed Jerry
Sitek.
Mr. Zachman indicated that his son feels that he has been forced out of the city and he
would like to know what is going to be done about it. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Zachman if
he requested that his son come back to Edina when he attended the most recent hockey
board meeting in which Mr. Zachman replied no. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Zachman what
is it he would like to see done and Mr. Zachman answered he would like to see the system
fixed for the future. He indicated that he has heard there is a plan to possibly have a non
self-selecting board by the year 2000. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Zachman how he wants to
see the system changed and fixed since he feels his son was forced out. Mr. Zachman
replied that he wants fair opportunities for the kids to play hockey at the skill level that
they possess. He would like for the Park Board to supervise the hockey board so that they
are providing an equal opportunity for the kids to play hockey within their community at
the level appropriate for their skill.
Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Zachman if he feels his son should have been a B or B2
player and Mr. Zachman noted that at this point he doesn’t have any feel for it one way or
another. He did comment, however, that his son has been in the program for five years
and is yet to receive coaching. Mr. Montgomery noted that he thinks that problem exists
through a lot of the programs. Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Zachman if he would have
preferred to have 23 kids on a C team and he answered he didn’t think that would have
been a problem. Mr. Fee noted that you can’t physically get that many players into the
box. Ms. Kohler indicated that one year her son had 19 skaters and that was too many
because with four lines you get maybe one shift a period and that’s not enough, it’s not
fair to anyone.
Mr. Zachman pointed out that since volunteering to go to St. Louis Park his son has taken
a lot of abuse at school as well as the other kids who have “volunteered”. He also
indicated that if you were to ask the other parents who were at that meeting they would be
more than happy to tell you their impression that when they left the locker room they also
felt it was dominantly forced.
Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Zachman how he would feel if instead the hockey association
took the C players in Edina and the C players in St. Louis Park and made two teams out
of them. Mr. Zachman replied that would have been preferable to the way things were
handled.
Mr. Zachman indicated that part of the problem with EHA is you have to be welcomed in
when you try to volunteer and that is not an easy process. Mr. Herring asked getting back
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to Mr. Keprios' question, what concrete recommendations do you have to address these
problems. Mr. Zachman responded that from what he understands there presently are
four openings on the hockey board in which they do not wish to fill them even though
they are actively soliciting applications. He noted that the board should be non self-
selecting and this is something that can be addressed immediately. You need to shake up
the board and have the process be an open vote but do not let it be pre-selected by the in-
executive committee and then submitted to the board itself because that does not work.
He indicated that the fundamentals of youth athletics are very simple, teach them to work
hard, give them the fundamental skills to practice and you will end up with good players.
He stated that open elections are very fundamental. Mr. Crowther asked Mr. Keprios if
any of the associations have open elections in which Mr. Keprios responded no but thinks
it would be a great idea. Ms. Kohler commented that one thing she really likes about the
hockey board as opposed to some of the other boards is they have a 3 year limit to their
term, where the other boards have no limit to their terms.
Mr. Keprios again asked Mr. Zachman what he would like the Park Board to do to further
serve him and Mr. Zachman again stated he wants to see the system fixed. Mr. Keprios
noted they are going to be correcting some things down the road which will address part
of that issue. He also pointed out that when it comes to volunteer organizations it’s not as
easy as a few fundamentals. It’s hard work and the boards have to make tough decisions
in which he feels the hockey board has a done a good job in what they think is in the best
interest of the kids. Mr. Keprios also pointed out that politics are always going to exist in
volunteer organizations. He also commented that for those who wish to change the
system and make a contribution, those people need to get involved and get their name on
the ballot.
Mr. Fee indicated that the associations are independent and not under the Park Board’s
control. However, if the Park Board finds them to be discriminating or doing obvious
things that they should not be doing and they are using park facilities, then the Park Board
can intervene.
B. Girls Hockey
Mr. Keprios indicated that girls hockey was also brought up at that same meeting with
Mr. Sitek and Mr. Riese, of the Edina Hockey Association, because of the concern over
some of the points Ms. Gaumer brought up at the last Park Board meeting. Ms. Gaumer’s
perception was that the C players were subsidizing the A and B players when it comes to
the allocation of ice. Mr. Keprios noted that he was told that was definitely not the case
this year and they don’t believe it was the case last year. However, if it was they would
be more than happy to correct it. Mr. Keprios explained that for anyone who makes an A
or B team there is an automatic surcharge that they pay.
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that he contacted the city attorney, Jerry Gilligan, to
ask if an independent non-profit organization has the right to allocate indoor ice based on
ability. Mr. Gilligan indicated to him that in his opinion each youth athletic association
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has the legal right to discriminate by ability, however, they cannot allocate indoor ice
based on gender, color, race or creed.. Mr. Keprios pointed out that years ago the
traveling teams used to have all of the indoor ice and some of the C teams never saw
indoor ice until the championships. Mr. Keprios commented that, based on skill level, ice
is not allocated equally across the board.
Mr. Crowther asked if he understood correctly in that when a player pays a registration
fee they all get the same number of hours of ice time for that basic registration fee. The
so called discrimination comes in the form of the A and B upper level in that the better
kids get more ice time but they also pay more for it. Mr. Keprios replied that is correct.
Mr. Crowther asked Mr. Keprios if he thought what Mr. Gilligan was referring to was the
ability to allow the A’s and the B’s to buy more time. Mr. Keprios replied that what they
get they have to pay for. Mr. Fee pointed out that the C teams also have the ability to buy
more ice time, however, they need to have someone to make the calls and the parents
have to be willing to pay the extra money.
Mr. Keprios stated that the surcharge ice is already pre-scheduled for the A and B teams
and they pay an additional $40.00 for that. He indicated that if someone wants more ice
then it is up to the team and the parents as to whether or not they want to purchase
additional ice time. Mr. Herring commented that from his personal experience his son
didn’t want to be on the B team because he only wanted to play hockey as a recreational
activity. He didn’t want to have all of the obligations that go with being on a traveling
team. Therefore, he feels that is a very valid reason why we can differentiate between the
A, B and C programs and absolutely agrees with this.
Mr. Keprios asked Ms. Gaumer how the rest of the team feels about requesting the same
additional number of hours that they are not getting. Ms. Gaumer replied that she didn’t
know about the whole team but did know of two other parents who were upset.
Mr. Keprios commented that with any volunteer organization it is always easy to criticize
but noted that the Edina Hockey Association has had to make some tough decisions. In
this case, the EHA had to decide to either appease two players on a team who want more
ice time or serve the majority who prefer fewer hours and a recreational experience.
Mr. Jenkins asked Ms. Gaumer if she has been before the hockey board and she replied
that she was told there is nothing they can do. Ms. Gaumer commented that she is a
taxpayer and doesn’t like to see her taxes spent to support programs which do not provide
equal opportunities for all of the children who wish to participate in any particular sport
in Edina.
Mr. Montgomery asked Ms. Gaumer to put in writing any additional comments she has
because the Park Board has already heard these comments at the previous Park Board
meeting as well as this months meeting. Mr. Montgomery stated that he feels the C
program has been scheduled adequate ice time.
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IV. GUIDELINES FOR PRIORITY USE OF EDINA’S PUBLIC FACILITIES
Mr. Keprios explained to the Park Board that a lot of communities are currently going
through a similar exercise. He indicated that Eden Prairie just finished writing their
guidelines and therefore he is using their draft as a starting point to establish guidelines
that best suit Edina. Not everything that is in the Eden Prairie policy applies to Edina.
Mr. Keprios noted that we need to look at and get a feel for what is best for Edina. He
explained that this will take a lot of soul searching and it is not something that will be
accomplished in a month or two. He noted that it is going to take some involvement as
well as input from the athletic associations. It was noted that Mr. Herring, Mr. Fee and
Mr. Montgomery are willing to volunteer to work on this task force. He stated there
needs to be formal written rules and policies for everyone to follow.
Ms. Kohler indicated that she feels it would be helpful if the Park Board could review the
mission of each organization because that would make it a lot easier. Mr. Keprios stated
that he will get the missions and bylaws together and meet with Mr. Herring, Mr. Fee and
Mr. Montgomery and will report back on this topic in February.
V. OTHER
A. Walnut Ridge Park - Mr. Keprios handed out to the Park Board copies of two
different letters that Mr. Arnold would like to have be part of the public record. Mr.
Arnold states that he is concerned about the ice time schedule. Mr. Keprios indicated that
they need to build a decent base at Walnut Ridge Park even if it means building ice
during the holidays when school is out. Mr. Keprios stated that regardless of what he
may have promised or tried to attempt to accomplish the Park Maintenance Department
needs to do what is in the best interest of the community. However, once there is a
decent base they do not need to maintain the ice before 7:00 a.m. Mr. Keprios
commented that they are there to serve the public as a whole and not just one family.
B. Senior Center - Ms. Rydell asked what the status is with the Senior Center and Mr.
Keprios replied that nothing has changed from the last meeting. He explained that he has
been directed to research all community centers in the Twin Cities area and how these
communities serve their senior population.
C. Shelter Buildings - Mr. Keprios indicated that they will be opening bids for the
shelter buildings on January 28th. He explained that, if the bids come in too high, Weber
will be the one that will get pulled out of the bid process. Mr. Montgomery noted that he
thought a commitment was made to build a shelter building at Weber Park. Mr. Keprios
stated that Mr. Rosland has directed him to pull Weber Park if the bids come in too high.
He noted that would be in the best interest of the community and he supports Mr.
Rosland’s decision.
Mr. Keprios stated that the comfort stations are still on schedule and those include
Garden Park, Lake Cornelia Park and Wooddale Park.
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
Dave Crowther MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 8:50 P.M. John Dovolis
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.