HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-04-14 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 p.m.
APRIL 14, 1998
______________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Andy Herring, David Crowther, Tom White, Andrew Montgomery,
Phyllis Kohler, Bill Jenkins, John Dovolis, Jean Rydell, Beth Hall,
David Fredlund
MEMBERS ABSENT: Becky Bennett
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT: Marjorie Ruedy, Alyce Lees, David Lees, Ron Sharpe, Mike
Damman, Mike Hall, Tom Mahler, Barb Mahler, David
O’Halloran, Fred Nelson, Pat Nelson, Kathryn Peterson, Anne
Hall, Robb Leer, Gerry Gordon, Doug Nessan, Don Blue, Scott
Dunlop, Jay Gould, Pete Kenefick, Dale Nelson, John Clifford,
Marvin Goldstein, Bob Donahue, Charles Feige, Josh Arnold,
Scott Canakes
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I. APPROVAL OF THE MARCH 10, 1998 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE MARCH 10, 1998 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Beth Hall SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. WOODDALE PARK COMFORT STATION
Mr. Keprios explained that on March 22, he received a petition requesting that we look at
some of the issues regarding the comfort station at Wooddale Park. Therefore, he felt he
should hold a neighborhood meeting so he could receive input and see how the
neighborhood felt as a whole and attempt to resolve any concerns or clear up any
misunderstandings. He indicated that 573 notices were sent to the Wooddale Park
neighborhood inviting them to attend a meeting. There were 17 people from the
neighborhood who attended the meeting in addition to the architect, Jerry Drevlow from
the Edina Police Department and Dave Crowther. Mr. Keprios indicated that there was
some good discussion and there were some strong opinions on both sides of the issue. He
pointed out that the number one issue was whether or not we even need a restroom.
Some felt strongly the park needed them and others felt the park did not need them.
Some of the people also indicated that they felt the park needed a restroom, however, they
would like to see it placed in a different location.
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Mr. Keprios showed everyone what the comfort station would look like and explained the
design. He noted that the function of the building is to provide a restroom for men/boys
and women/girls as well as have a storage area with a floor mop sink to maintain the
facility. He indicated that he was asked the question is there a formula used to determine
which parks should get a restroom. He pointed out that there is no formula but rather the
need is determined by the fact that we have scheduled youth games at the park.
Mr. Keprios explained that he was asked who came up with the current location and he
stated that it was the architect and himself. He indicated he felt he had learned a lot from
previous meetings with the neighborhood regarding the basketball court issue for this
same area. He noted that it was very clear to him that the open grassy area is very
precious space that the residents wanted to see that left open. Therefore, this seemed to
be the most logical place because it didn’t take away any open play space and would be
close to both the ball field and playground area. In addition, this location keeps the
children away from the traffic on 50th Street as well as the parking lot.
Mr. Keprios commented that he felt there was a strong contingency that the neighbors are
okay with having a restroom, however some would like to see it relocated to a different
location in the park. Mr. Keprios explained that there are a few drawbacks to relocating
the comfort station. It will cost an additional $16,000 to $20,000 to run new utility lines
to the new location and it also takes a away from the open play space and becomes too
much the focal point of the park.
David Lee, resident, indicated that he has lived three-quarters of a block from Wooddale
Park for the last 30 years and his kids grew up using the park. He stated that it appears to
him that for the small amount of time that baseball is played at the park, it’s a big expense
for a building as well as maintenance. He noted that he sees no reason to have any
facilities there at all. They haven’t needed one in the last 30 years and doesn’t know what
the difference is now. Mr. Lee also pointed out there is a restroom right across the street
at Utley Park and therefore feels it’s an unnecessary expenditure.
Ron Sharp, resident, lives approximately two blocks from the park and really has no
special interest. However, he was struck about the amount of money the city is willing to
spend on this particular facility for such a small park without what he views as a real
rationale. He indicated that one rationale he heard was that the baseball players and small
children have been going to the bathroom behind the trees. He stated that he feels the
baseball players could walk across the street and use Utley Park if necessary. However,
he does feel it would be difficult to let small children cross the street and use Utley Park.
Mr. Sharp stated that for the short amount of time this facility is going to be used and
given the very small nature of the park he asked staff if they have adequately considered
an alternative. He indicated that he heard portable toilets mentioned once and it was said
that they would be pushed over and be a constant eyesore. Mr. Sharp explained that you
can build barriers so they cannot be pushed over as well as landscape them. Again, if it’s
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only for 8 to 10 weeks out of the year this would be a great solution because he feels there
really doesn’t need to be a permanent facility for that much money.
Barb Mahler, resident, indicated that she lives across from Wooddale Park and takes her
grandchildren there all the time. She stated that she also was astounded that the City of
Edina would think about spending that kind of money on such a small park for such a
short period of time. She noted that kids are usually there for a short period of time and
maybe for the baseball players a portable toilet could be used for the 8 weeks of
scheduled games. In addition, there are a lot of homes that back right up to the park and
commented that if she lived there she wouldn’t want a huge toilet sitting outside of her
back window.
David O’Halloran, resident, indicated that he lives in one of the houses that backs right
up to the park and he will see it from his back window if it is located where it has been
proposed. He noted that he respects his neighbors concerns about whether the city should
spend any money at all on having a facility there. Also, he respects other neighbors
concerns that it would be nice to have the convenience of a facility for small children.
However, he noted that his principle concern has to do with the location of the facility
because of it’s proximity to his immediate neighbors and himself. In addition, he noted
that the design of the facility in terms of size would tend to make it the dominate feature
of the park and feels that could be corrected with architectural changes. He stated that he
disagrees with Mr. Keprios for he doesn’t feel it would be the focal point of the park if it
was relocated closer to the street, but rather feels it would be moving it away as a focal
point.
Mr. O’Halloran brought up the point of safety and commented that the officer who spoke
at the meeting stated that if the comfort station were located closer to the parking lot it
would be easier to patrol. It would also be easier to get into the facility immediately if
someone were to lock themselves in. Therefore, he thinks there are many rationales for
relocating the facility and not the least of which are the immediate neighbors who back up
against the park.
Kathryn Peterson, resident, indicated that she lives in one of the houses that backs up to
the park. She stated that the design of the structure is overwhelming for the size of the
park, which really addresses the whole question about need. Do we need a permanent
structure and if so do we need it to be of this magnitude, because it doesn’t matter where
you put it in the park it’s going to be the dominate feature. There is also the question of
cost. Ms. Peterson pointed out that she has a daughter in traveling soccer and they play at
a number of similar parks throughout the west metro area and there are very few of them
with restroom facilities. Meanwhile, the ones in Edina are usually locked in the summer
and that does not seem to deter the use or success of these parks. She noted that she asks
the question do we need a permanent structure, because the whole question is
convenience and when it comes to small children there will never be enough restroom
facilities.
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Mike Hall, resident, indicated that he also backs up against the park. He explained that
he and his wife Ann are the ones who started the petition. He stated that as they have
talked to more people they have found out there are a lot of people who have used the
park and ball fields who would have used the restroom at Utley Park instead of going
home had they known there were was a restroom there.
Mr. Hall explained that when they first looked at it they thought possibly of a relocation.
However, they were surprised at the number of people who have come forward since the
first petition saying it doesn’t make any sense and even though a portable toilet is not
aesthetically pleasing it was deemed by many that it might be a better option than a
permanent facility. Especially considering the brief amount of time it would be there. Mr.
Hall pointed out that the pagoda is the center piece and the proximity of the comfort
station to the pagoda would compete with it as well as it would be another aesthetic issue.
Mr. Hall also questioned whether there really is a need for both a mens and womens
restroom or could it be one unisex restroom. He noted that all of the ideas are leading to
a smaller, less dominate structure in what is already a small park.
Pat Nelson, resident, indicated that she would like to know why a portable toilet can’t be
put in by the three big evergreens. She stated that Mr. Keprios replied at the recent
meeting that he receives numerous complaints when he puts in a portable toilet, however,
this way it would be hidden. She also pointed out that with the current structure plan half
of it is for storage and she doesn’t agree that is necessary to have. Mrs. Nelson suggested
that people should use the restroom at Utley Park and the city could put in a big
pedestrian crosswalk with a blinking light as well as have the police tag cars. She noted
that we should make do with what we have especially if it’s only for 8 weeks out of the
year. Mrs. Nelson pointed out, however, that if it absolutely must go in she feels it should
be closer to the parking lot and should have a different roof than the one that is shown.
She also stated that if one crime takes place in that restroom and ruins one life, it is not
worth it in her opinion.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he has received more phone calls on portable toilets than any
other issue. If there is anything people really object to it’s portable toilets even to the
point where they have taken the time to call their city council members. Past experience
tells him that people do not want to live next to a portable toilet. Mr. Keprios commented
that he is actually quite surprised to hear that the neighborhood supports the idea of
portable toilets. He explained that we are, however, limited to where they can put these
facilities because they have to be able to access them, however, they can still enclose
them.
Mr. Fredlund indicated that there are 44 signatures listed on the petition with different
points brought up. He asked that the Park Board go through each point. Point number
one is the close proximity to the park and Mr. Fredlund asked if that is bad. Mr. Keprios
replied that, in his professional opinion, having a permanent restroom facility next to the
tot lot and picnic area is not an issue for him. It is a plus in his opinion.
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The second point brought up is the aesthetics and he asked if the comfort station could be
redesigned at this time. Mr. Keprios replied that it can all be done again, however, it
would cost a lot more money and if the idea is to save money, that would not be a good
move.
The third point brought up was maintenance. Mr. Keprios replied that maintenance
becomes our job and we will have to continue to do our very best to keep it as clean as it
needs to be. Mr. Herring asked how maintenance is handled now in which Mr. Keprios
responded that we do it internally and visit the sites once a day.
Mr. Montgomery asked where else are we building comfort stations in which Mr. Keprios
replied they are being built at Lake Cornelia Park and Garden Park. Mr. Keprios
commented that all of the new buildings will have a keyless entry system installed so that
we can lock and unlock the doors from a remote location via computer.
Mr. Crowther indicated that after hearing both sides speak at the meeting last week he
went over to look at Wooddale Park so he could see exactly where everything is located.
He noted that he heard more from the group that it would be acceptable to have a facility
if it were relocated. It seemed that location was probably a bigger issue, however, some
people were obviously opposed to the idea altogether. Mr. Crowther pointed out that he
walked the park to get a sense of where it might be able to be relocated and none of the
places seemed to make sense to him. He also noted that it certainly doesn’t make any
sense to locate it where we would have to spend an additional $20,000 to get utilities put
in. However, now he is hearing everyone saying they are okay with portable toilets and if
the new comfort station is going to cost $60,000 and we have people who are not happy
with that then maybe we should put in portable toilets for now and see what happens.
Mr. Fredlund asked what is invested to date with the Wooddale comfort station. Mr.
Keprios replied there is close to $20,000 in utilities and a minimal amount of money
invested in the foundation. He also noted that if the neighborhood is okay with portable
toilets then try it for a year and see how they like it because there might be a different
representation here after a year of portable toilets. Mr. Crowther asked if the utilities will
be capped so we can always go back and Mr. Keprios replied that they can stay capped
indefinitely.
Mr. Crowther pointed out that the reason Utley Park is not viewed as a good option is
because of the safety issue of crossing the street. The concern is not so much crossing at
the light but crossing to the west by the baseball fields.
Mr. Herring asked where the portable toilets would be put. Mr. Keprios replied he would
ask the residents where they would prefer it before he put one in. Mr. Herring asked if
some kind of fencing could be put around it to shield it and Mr. Keprios replied they
could do something along those lines, however, it needs to be accessible to the vendor for
routine maintenance.
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Mr. Fredlund asked what do portable toilets cost for rental in which Mr. Keprios replied
approximately $250.00 a month.
John Dovolis MOVED THAT PER THE NEIGHBORHOOD’S SUGGESTION WE
TRY PORTABLE TOILETS THIS SUMMER AND SEE HOW IT WORKS AND WE
WILL REVIEW IT A YEAR FROM NOW AND STOP CONSTRUCTION OF THE
PERMANENT FACILITY AT WOODDALE PARK.
Bill Jenkins SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. White commented that he would like to see it read “REVIEW IT AT THE END OF
THE SUMMER” because people are going to know how they feel at the end of the
summer as opposed to waiting until next April.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he will send out notices to the same group of residents to see
how everyone feels at the end of the summer.
ALL IN FAVOR - MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Keprios asked the audience if anyone strongly disagrees with the approach that is
being taken. One resident stated that he would just caution execution of it. He noted that
this group of people will be very acceptable to the time limits of the baseball teams. It’s
all a question of how we do it which makes the neighborhood accept that solution, which
will save the city a lot of money if it is done the right way.
III. BASEBALL SCOREBOARDS FOR COURTNEY BALLFIELDS
Mr. Keprios explained that the Baseball Association has done an excellent job in finding
a way to raise funds for new scoreboards at the Courtney Ballfields and stated they are to
be complimented for that. Mr. Keprios pointed out that they are now looking for their
last step of approval. The current city ordinance does not allow for any commercial
outdoor advertising in Edina. There are no billboards allowed anywhere in the city and
therefore, it will need to go through an ordinance change. Mr. Keprios indicated that he
has been asked to bring this issue before the Park Board. He noted that the Park Board
has already given their stamp of approval with regards to scoreboard advertising in
general, however, Mr. Keprios pointed out that what they are looking for is the size of
scoreboard, particularly the scoreboard on Field #1 and the accompanying sponsor panels.
He indicated that this type of scoreboard is being used in many communities throughout
Minnesota.
Mr. Herring asked Mr. Keprios to refresh his memory on how the advertising issue came
about because his recollection is that the City Council had a prohibition on advertising.
Mr. Keprios explained that the City Council use to have a policy prohibiting advertising.
However, based on Park Board’s recommendation they are now going forward on a two
year trial basis regarding advertising issues on an individual basis. Mr. Keprios indicated
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that there is a difference between ordinance and policy. The ordinance that’s in place
currently does not allow for this to happen, therefore, in order for advertising to go on
these scoreboards we have to change the City Ordinance, which does not concern the
Park Board. What the Park Board needs to discuss is the size and look of the scoreboard.
Dave Swendson, Edina Baseball Association board member, stated that the Baseball
Association has researched scoreboards and has looked at a lot of options. He indicated
that Braemar is a premier park and the aesthetics are important to everyone. He noted
that Courtney Ballfields is strictly a baseball park and feels there is probably not another
field in the state that is as nice or nicer than Braemar. Now that it has been redone it’s
absolutely gorgeous. However, they need to bring it up to the level it deserves from a
scoreboard standpoint. Mr. Swendson indicated that there are cities in the area who have
recently put in the same scoreboard they are talking about. He stated that they are asking
the Park Board to consider a scoreboard that is very popular. Mr. Swendson went on to
explain that this scoreboard really tells the story of a baseball game. It tells the story
inning by inning, who is at bat, what the count is, etc. He added that each one of these
scoreboards will be run from inside the dugout.
Mr. Swendson explained that the three smaller fields will have a 6’ x 16’ scoreboard
which will have the score and who is at bat, and is a very adequate scoreboard for the
smaller fields. However, the big field is where the High School and American Legion
teams play their games. It’s a place where they hope to have High School tournaments if
they qualify at the High School level. He indicated that one of the things to consider is
they were told by Gerry Gordan of Daktronics that one of the reasons so many cities put
in this particular scoreboard is because they cannot hold amateur tournaments if they
don’t have a regulation baseball scoreboard. Therefore, most cities put this in because
they want to be able to host a sectional or regional tournament.
Mr. Swendson indicated that the Baseball Association has raised $34,000 through
sponsor panels to pay for all of the scoreboards. The contracts for the advertising will be
for five years and if at the end of five years the city wants to renew the Edina Baseball
Association will resell the advertising and that money will again go back to the City of
Edina to be put back into the Braemar baseball fields. He also noted that they have
commitments for all of the advertising to pay for the boards and have committed to the
advertisers that they are collecting no more money than what the boards cost. Mr.
Swendson pointed out that approximately 20% of the entire scoreboard will be
advertising. He explained that they are proposing to do 1/3 of the scoreboard on each
side which will be sold to advertisers and the middle panel the Edina Baseball
Association will buy where they will put “Home of the Hornets” or something to that
effect.
Mr. Edwards pointed out that the Braemar baseball fields really are designed to play
baseball so it really cannot be compared to another park in our system. This is a field
where you need to have a permit from the Edina Park and Recreation Department in order
to be able to use the fields. He also noted that field #1 is by far the most competitive
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field. Mr. Edwards also stated that he has talked to other communities and they have had
absolutely no problems with it.
Mr. Swendson indicated that the only thing that may ever need to be replaced is the driver
which costs approximately $150.00, in other words if is were to get struck by lightning
that is all that is needed. The old scoreboard everything was all integrated and connected
and if one thing went everything went. It was noted that the new scoreboards have an
estimated life of 20 years.
Mr. Fredlund asked about visibility of the scoreboard during the daytime because of the
sun shining on the scoreboard. Mr. Gordan explained there are protective sunscreens on
every digit so it not only protects it from vandalism but it’s really designed to take out the
direct sunlight. Of course, you cannot see it as well as you can during the evening hours.
Mr. Montgomery asked if he understands correctly that the Baseball Association is
financing this 100%. Mr. Swendson explained that the agreement they have with the city
is the Baseball Board will act as the agent for the sale of the advertising, the purchase of
the scoreboards as well as oversee the installation. At that time they will become the
property of the city. At the end of the five years they will go out and sell advertising
again on behalf of the city in which the city will put these funds back into improvements
at Braemar Park.
Mr. Fredlund asked if there is any control over who is advertising on the scoreboards.
Mr. Keprios explained that the City Council will have to approve the final look of the
advertising.
Mr. Jenkins asked if the advertisers will be the same on all of the scoreboards or will it be
separate. Mr. Swendson indicated that one advertiser wants half of three scoreboards and
another advertiser wants half of two. He explained that rather than buying one whole
board they wanted to split it up and have their name in more places. Mr. Swendson also
pointed out that all of the advertisers are people who have supported Edina baseball in the
past.
Mr. Dovolis stated that he has always been a big proponent of this and feels that when it
comes to advertising and using the facilities that we have at these fields he thinks it’s a
no-brainer. He indicated that he has been pushing for this for a long time and feels that
the Baseball Association should be commended for going out and doing a selling job and
getting it in place. He noted that he obviously thinks the bigger sign is the way to do it
because it makes it more attractive to the advertiser as well as it makes it easier to see.
Mr. Jenkins indicated that he agrees with Mr. Dovolis.
Andy Herring MOVED THAT WE ACCEPT THE PROPOSAL OF THE BASEBALL
ASSOCIATION TO USE SPONSOR PANEL ADVERTISING AS A MEANS OF
FUNDING TO REPLACE THE FOUR SCOREBOARDS AT COURTNEY
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BALLFIELDS IN BRAEMAR PARK, WHICH INCLUDES THE LARGE
SCOREBOARD ON FIELD NUMBER ONE.
Bill Jenkins SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
IV. OTHER
A. Edina Tennis Ladder - Mr. Montgomery indicated that would like to see in the future
some form of a tennis ladder or neighborhood competition because he would like to see
the tennis courts used more.
B. Bredesen Park - Mr. Montgomery indicated that he would like to see new exercise
stations put in at Bredesen Park. He suggested that possibly this could be an Eagle Scout
or Lions project. He noted that he would also like to see a fence put around it so people
can do their exercises and not be watched by everyone.
C. Andrew Montgomery - John Dovolis pointed out that Mr. Montgomery was not able
to attend last months Park Board meeting and therefore wanted to take the time now to
commend him for the fine job he has done as Chair. We appreciate all of his hard work
and commitment to the Park Board.
V. ADJOURNMENT
John Dovolis MOVED TO AJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:00 P.M. Bill Jenkins
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.