HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-12-08 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
DECEMBER 8, 1998
__________________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jean Rydell, Becky Bennett, Andrew Montgomery, Beth Hall,
Andy Herring, Tom White, Dave Fredlund, Bill Jenkins, John
Dovolis, Dave Crowther
MEMBERS ABSENT: Phyllis Kohler
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT: Eric Flowers, Marjorie Ruedy, Jane & Charles Paulus, Kathryn &
Keith Peterson, Sara Peterson, David & Pam O’Halloran, Barbara
Mahler, Gordon Asselstine, Peggy Jennings, Marcia Rehnberg,
Caryl Sharp, Ron Sharp, Dave & Alyce Lees, William Loomis
__________________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 10, 1998 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER 10, 1998 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. John Dovolis SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. WOODDALE PARK COMFORT STATION
Mr. Keprios gave a presentation on the Wooddale Park Comfort Station which explained
everything that has taken place to date. Mr. Crowther informed the residents that the Park
Board has received a copy of every letter that has been written regarding the Wooddale
Park Comfort Station.
A resident handed out to the Park Board 17 additional letters opposing the building of a
comfort station at Wooddale Park. She indicated that she feels it’s ridiculous to even
think about putting a permanent structure at the park. The resident stated that her main
concern with the park is the playground equipment because there are some broken items
and it is very dangerous. She then handed out pictures showing what the playground
equipment looks like. The resident indicated that she feels the $75,000 could possibly be
used to update the playground equipment and make it safe for the children. She noted
that she realizes Wooddale Park’s playground equipment is not scheduled to redone until
2001 but feels it should be done sooner than that. She then added that there is a
permanent restroom facility right across the street at Utley Park.
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Gordon Asselstine, resident, indicated that he attended the previous meeting and
commented that there were a few people who were in favor of building a permanent
structure. He indicated that some neighbors brought up things they were fearful of that
might happen. Mr. Asselstine asked what negative experiences has Edina had at the other
various facilities. He also noted that $25,000 has already been spent and therefore it’s
really only another $50,000 that is being looked at. Mr. Asselstine also pointed out that
people are concerned about safety and noted that the facility would only be open during
certain hours.
Mr. Keprios responded that at a previous meeting Gerry Drevlow, an Edina Police
Officer, attended and he was asked the question is there an abundance of violent crime or
is there any serious violent crime that has occurred in the shelter buildings. He stated that
the answer is no, however, that does not mean that they haven’t had vandalism. He feels,
however, that is not a good reason to not build a structure because vandalism will always
occur.
Jane Paulus, resident, indicated that in the presentation by staff the reference was made
several times that when the referendum first went out this was identified to the residents
of Edina and they should have been aware of it. However, she noted that she thinks when
most people were voting in favor of the referendum it was the overall package of the
referendum and people weren’t breaking it down per item and what it meant to their park.
Secondly, she commented that apathy grows because people feel this is a well run
community and she knows a number people didn’t attend the meeting this evening
because they feel the city will do what it wants to do. Ms. Paulus stated that she doesn’t
always know that the number of people that are physically at a meeting make something
right or wrong because it usually comes down to a judgment decision by the people who
are either appointed or elected to these committees and City Council that becomes
important. She stated that she thinks that what we do need to look at is whether we are
going to save $50,000 or $75,000 because we are looking at maybe four months out of the
year, 8 hours a day. When we look at that and we look at the whole budget designated to
a park that size that’s a huge percentage.
Ms. Paulus noted that she walks through that park three times a day and the maintenance
at Wooddale Park is almost zero right now. She indicated that some neighbors went in
and cut down brushes and they left them in piles and the piles were there about a month
and a half. Therefore, she can’t say there are public employees who are constantly there
maintaining the park. Ms. Paulus stated that her question is what it’s going to be like if
we put a permanent facility there and if that’s going to be further maintained. She
indicated that the cost is so great in what you are asking the families to give up for that
particular park and if every facility in Edina has double facilities to it then one would
question whether the government was maintaining itself in a fiscally responsible manner
in the community. That is what we really have to look at is that there is already a facility
there. Ms. Paulus commented that we need to go back to what is the purpose of
Wooddale Park and she thinks that right now the city is pushing that purpose too far
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because it doesn’t have the square footage to compete against what the other parks have.
Therefore, by not putting a public facility there we are going to allow Wooddale to go
back to what she believes it was intended for. She stated she would really encourage that
it be more than just indefinitely to avoid the burden of attending one meeting after
another. The policy makers should come up with a more lasting solution and try to work
with the community.
Mr. Crowther asked the residents what their feeling is on having a semi-permanent
structure to enclose the satellite like that one that was shown in the presentation rather
than just have it sit out in the open. A resident commented that she feels having a
structure such as that with a little landscaping around it would be perfectly acceptable.
She pointed out that she likes the idea staff has to de-emphasize the use of the park
because she agrees the park was not built to accommodate all the scheduled events that
occur because it really is not that big.
Mr. White stated that he attended the neighborhood meeting and he agrees with staff to
de-emphasize the use of the park with scheduled activities because it is such a small park.
Secondly, the comment was made that the neighborhood would rather see new
playground equipment than build a bathroom and he noted that he doesn’t necessarily
think it’s a trade-off. Mr. White indicated, however, if the current playground equipment
is not safe than it should be taken care of as soon as possible and try to move that date up
sooner than 2001.
Mr. White indicated that the neighbors felt crime is an issue in which he responded he
doesn’t necessarily see any difference between a permanent shelter building and a
satellite. In fact, the shelter building would be locked in the evenings and a satellite is
always open. Therefore, maybe a permanent shelter is safer than a satellite.
Mr. White commented that he does have a problem with people from the neighborhood
saying we don’t want people coming to Wooddale Park who live outside of the
neighborhood. He stated that may be what the park was originally designed for but at this
point in time people outside of the neighborhood are advised to use all of the parks.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that they can try to look at some creative ways to keep the
satellite from being vandalized.
Mr. Herring asked about scheduling games at other locations and questioned if the
situation at Wooddale Park is really unique compared to the other parks where games are
scheduled. Mr. Keprios responded that in his opinion Wooddale Park is unique as far as
a safety issue. It’s a convenient place to schedule games because of the parking, but we
have learned through experience that the park in reality is not big enough to handle that
many people. It is not a safe scenario to have children crossing 50th Street.
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Ms. Bennett asked if a satellite is put in where would it physically be located. Mr.
Keprios replied that he would like to work with the neighbors to figure out where the best
location would be for it.
Mr. Dovolis MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL STAFF’S
RECOMMENDATION TO PUT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PERMANENT
COMFORT STATION ON HOLD INDEFINITELY AND RELY ON THE USE OF A
SATELLITE DURING THE SUMMER MONTHS AND HAVE MR. KEPRIOS
WORK WITH NEIGHBORHOOD TO SETTLE ON SOME SORT OF A PERMANENT
THREE SIDED STRUCTURE IF THAT’S WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS.
SECONDLY, PLACE SIGNS INFORMING PARK USERS THAT UTLEY IS
AVAILABLE WITH PERMANENT RESTROOMS. LASTLY, WORK TOWARDS
ELIMINATING SCHEDULED GAMES WHERE POSSIBLE AT WOODDALE PARK.
Jean Rydell SECONDED THE MOTION
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. YOUTH ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION BUDGETS
Ms. Bennett indicated that at the Park Board meeting two months ago the topic came up
regarding the funds that some of the associations have sitting in CD’s, savings and
checking accounts. She stated that she is not here to point fingers at anyone for doing
anything inappropriate, she just has some questions and concerns. She asked how the
association’s fees fall in line with what they are being charged, what they get for that
money and is there any excess money from those fees that are going into some sort of
savings account or CD. She asked if those moneys are then being used to make capital
expenditures back to the city as gifts such as what the Basketball Association did. Ms.
Bennett commented that her concern is for the families who pay those fees for their
children to participate in the sports, are they being overcharged. Also, where is the
money coming from for these big capital expenditures and gifts to the city. If it is money
raised from fees and is it really the association’s function as non-profit associations to be
doing that.
Mr. Keprios indicated that each association is run a little bit differently. He then gave an
example of the Baseball Association. He noted that baseball raises quite a bit of money
by operating the concessions stand at Courtney Fields in Braemar Park. With their
profits, the EBA makes capital improvements to Braemar Park. He stated that they try
not to overcharge for their program. Mr. Keprios then explained that the Basketball
Association currently does not have a vehicle to raise money to make capital
improvements to improve their program and therefore, they do it through program fees.
Mr. Keprios explained that all of the athletic associations are independently incorporated
with the State of Minnesota and they must file a tax return every year with the IRS if their
income is at a certain level. When the IRS looks at these non-profit incorporated groups'
returns and believe that the organization has a little too much cash on hand, they are
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going to start asking them questions. What their bottom line shows is what their profit
and loss statements and expense report show is that those funds are going to improve
their sport and as far as the state and IRS are concerned that’s okay. However, is that
philosophically okay with the city is a question for the Park Board and City Council.
Mr. Keprios pointed out as an example that for 1999 the Park Department has no capital
plan, there is not enough money because of levy limits and if history repeats itself there
will not be enough funding to keep up with the capital improvements that each sport
would like to see. Therefore, these associations have recognized that if they want these
improvements they are going to have to raise it on their own.
Mr. Keprios noted that staff will soon be presenting the Park Board with a proposed five
year capital plan, which right now identifies approximately 15 million dollars worth of
improvements. Aside from the larger items such as the senior center and gymnasiums
staff is suggesting that there are approximately $500,000 worth of capital improvements
needed for 1999, knowing full well that there is no money. He commented that staff is
looking at a long range plan that includes trying to find creative ways to come up with
funding.
Mr. Crowther asked Ms. Bennett if her main concern is that people are not being told
what all of their money is going towards that they are being charged as opposed to the
philosophical issue of an association paying to improve the fields. Ms. Bennett replied
that she feels people need to know if a certain percentage of the fees they are paying are
going towards improving the sport when their child is no longer even playing that sport.
Mr. Crowther pointed out that all of the athletic associations are independently
incorporated and are not part of the city. The City grants them use of their facilities but
they don’t own or operate them. Mr. Herring added that the City provides them preferred
use of the facility.
Ms. Dovolis pointed out that the number of kids who participate in each sport fluctuates
from year to year and therefore it’s hard to know how many kids will be participating
each year.
Ms. Bennett indicated that she has had families tell her that their kids cannot participate
in hockey, for example, because they cannot afford it, it costs too much. Mr. Crowther
pointed out that all of the associations offer scholarships so there is a mechanism offered
for everyone to be able to participate.
Ms. Bennett asked Mr. Keprios if he feels all the fees across the board are in line with
what is being charged for each child to play that season. Mr. Keprios responded that it
depends on how you view the whole picture of funding and the philosophy of those who
play pay. For example, the golfer in all essence pays for his or her own capital
improvements at the golf course every time they play a round also the hockey player does
every time they rent an hour of ice. Mr. Keprios commented that all of the enterprise
facilities follow that philosophy. He then pointed out that basketball does not pay for
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their gym time and the only vehicle for them to improve their capital plan is through their
registrations. The golfers do it through their fees and charges.
Mr. Keprios indicated that we could approach this in a different way if we feel that we
want to raise capital funding on our own and not leave that up to the responsibility of the
associations who don’t have a vehicle to raise funds. He explained that we could start
charging them for the use of facilities and collect it as part of the capital plan. Mr.
Keprios stated that he intends to get all of the athletic association presidents together for a
group meeting and this is one issue that he does plan to bring up. Also, he will ask the
associations if they are being up front and honest with their participants that a portion of
their registration fee goes to capital improvements down the road. Mr. Keprios indicated
that maybe they should separate that out and give them an option and throw that out for at
least discussion if there is some concern.
Mr. Montgomery indicated that a lot of the associations have contributed back to the city
but others have not. He noted for example EGAA has not contributed and they have
$53,000 in the bank. Mr. Keprios responded that philosophically he has always
questioned whether EGAA should be taking registration dollars and giving it away in
scholarships for former participants to go to college. Apparently there is a vehicle for
them to do that through the IRS and it is legitimate. Philosophically, however, he has a
problem with that. Mr. Keprios indicated that a rule of thumb we have learned that non-
profit organizations should always maintain approximately 15% of their annual operating
budget in reserve.
Mr. Dovolis commented that Mr. Keprios brought up a good point in that all of the
associations presidents get together and discuss these issues. Ms. Bennett noted that she
thinks it’s wonderful that the associations give back to the city, she just questions does
everyone know what their money is being used for and feels that all of the associations
should be on the same page. Mr. Crowther indicated that he agrees there should be a
commonality for what every association does from an operating standpoint.
Mr. Crowther asked that this issue be looked at again in the future for the Park Board to
discuss after the associations presidents have had their meeting.
IV. OTHER
A. Off-Leash Area - Mr. Montgomery asked whatever happened with the off-leash issue
at Todd Park. He noted that he heard someone was supposed to contact him and he has
heard nothing. Mr. Keprios indicated that he will follow-up with that.
V. ADJOURNMENT
John Dovolis MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 8:40 P.M. Bill Jenkins
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.