HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-12-12 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
DECEMBER 12, 2000
__________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Tom White, Andrew Herring, Dave Fredlund, Karla Sitek, George
Klus, Floyd Grabiel, Andy Finsness, John Murrin
MEMBERS ABSENT: Linda Presthus, Chuck Mooty, Scot Housh
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Donna Tilsner, Susie
Miller, John Valliere
__________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2000 PARK BOARD
MINUTES
Mr. Klus indicated that a correction needs to be made to the November 14, 2000 Park
Board Minutes. On page eight it should read “raising the greens fee for patrons”.
George Klus MOVED TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER 14, 2000 PARK BOARD
MINUTES WITH THE CORRECTION BEING MADE. Karla Sitek SECONDED THE
MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED WITH CORRECTION BEING MADE.
II. PLAYGROUND PROGRAM AND NEW RECREATION PROGRAM
PRESENTATION - SUSIE MILLER AND DONNA TILSNER
Mr. Keprios introduced Susie Miller, Adaptive Recreation Supervisor and Donna Tilsner,
Recreation Supervisor. He noted that they have come up with some really creative ideas
for new programs, which they will discuss, as well as talk a little bit about the current
playground program.
Ms. Tilsner indicated that the Park and Recreation Department has offered a summer
playground program for many years. She noted that last summer they had over 600
participants and 22 leaders spread out over 13 parks. She explained that the program is
six weeks long and consists of playing games, making crafts, having special events,
singing and reading. Ms. Tilsner pointed out that they also offered three separate field
trips that the kids could sign up for. She stated that last year they did hire a games
specialist and an arts and crafts specialist who went out to the parks and helped give the
playground leaders some new zest to their playground program. She indicated that she
felt this was very successful and did enhance the program.
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Ms. Tilsner explained that they have some new plans for the coming year. They hope to
have the Humane Society visit the playgrounds. They are also going to have Kathy
Iverson, Edina Chemical Health Specialist, make some presentations at the playgrounds
as well as there will be visits by the Edina Police and Fire Departments. She stated that
this year they are also hoping to set up a library program. Ms. Tilsner indicated that also
new for this year they are going to be using Countryside Park as a site for the older kids,
ages 9 to 12. This way with all of the older kids at one site maybe more kids in this age
group will sign up for the program.
Ms. Tilsner explained that every year it’s getting harder and harder to find people to work
and they continually need to be creative to try to find ways to attract workers. Therefore,
this year they are going to start a new program called “Lead” (Leadership Encouragement
and Development). This program will teach the youth some leadership skills, self-
esteem, working as a team and some other skills that might be useful as they are entering
into the part-time work force. She stated that their hope is these youth will want to
volunteer the rest of summer and when they become 16 year-olds they will want to work
for the park and recreation department.
Ms. Miller indicated that this year they are going to offer their first field trip for families
and it will be a trip to the Minnesota Vikings Training Camp in Mankato. She noted that
they are hoping it will somehow be supported by sponsorship and will therefore be fairly
inexpensive.
Ms. Tilsner explained that last year they held their first fishing clinic at Lake Cornelia and
they will be having it again this year. She indicated that they worked with the Minnaqua
program, who provided the instructor. The clinic runs for approximately three hours and
the participants learn where fish live and eat and as well as how to bait a hook. At the
end of the clinic the kids go home with a starter tackle box and some handouts. The fee
for this clinic is $5.00 and each session can accommodate 30 kids to which both sessions
filled last year. They are hoping to add another session this year depending on whether or
not Minnaqua is available for another session.
Ms. Tilsner noted that last year a gentleman started “Chess in the Parks” which averaged
20 participants every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon at Rosland Park. Participants did
need to pre-register, however, there was no fee involved. There were usually two to three
adults chaperoning and everyone had a great time. This year they are planning on having
the program again but they have yet to determine which park they will use.
Ms. Miller explained that they are going to start a 3 on 3 basketball league of champs for
6th, 7th, and 8th graders at Countryside Park. There will be no officials, just a staff
member to monitor the game and keep score.
Ms. Miller indicated that they are looking at starting a sports spectacular that would be
held two times a week for four weeks for 9 to 12 year olds. This is an age group where
they really need to find something for the kids to do. The program will teach skills for all
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different sports as well as start up some of the old time favorites, such as marbles, bocci
ball and croquet.
Ms. Tilsner commented that last year they had a nature camp which they plan on having
again this year. She noted that it is a four day program held at Rosland Park where they
learn about a lot of different things that are at the park such as birds, insects, etc. She
stated that they will also do some crafts and on the last day of camp they will go
swimming at the aquatic center. She indicated that last year’s nature camp was a great
success.
Ms. Miller pointed out that last year was the first time they had the Fab 4 and 5 program.
It is held two days a week for 20 kids. Because the program filled up so quickly they
added two more sessions. This is a great opportunity for 4 and 5 year olds to make a
connection with their parks and park leaders and it also helps make the transition to the
playground program a lot easier.
Mr. Herring indicated that as he understands it the playground program is supervised,
however, it is not a daycare. Therefore, he noted that he does have some concerns about
4 and 5 year olds and asked if a license is needed for this age group. Ms. Miller replied
that no license is required and that yes, it does become more child care than what the
playground program is and that there is one staff member for every five kids. She
commented that the program is 1 ½ hours long and that no activities last for more than 10
or 15 minutes because of their attention span. Mr. Herring asked how drop off and pick
up are handled to which Ms. Miller replied that the staff check in the children when they
are dropped off and checked out when the kids are picked up. The parents are also
supposed to let the leaders know if someone else is picking up their child/ren. Mr.
Keprios indicated that he thinks we are covered but he will double check to make sure.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that we are trying to offer more recreation-based programs as
opposed to just athletics. He noted that in keeping with the asset building initiative they
are trying to connect kids with adults and offer more family oriented and recreation
oriented programming. He indicated that he is very proud of his staff, they are very
creative and have done a great job.
III. BRAEMAR GOLF COURSE CLUBHOUSE IMPROVEMENTS - JOHN
VALLIERE
Mr. Valliere explained that in 1992 the Park Board and City Council approved a master
plan for the Braemar Golf Course Clubhouse. Therefore, they have slowly been working
on what they can afford to do each year and that included the expansion of the pro shop
and the addition of the decks which accommodates the golf cars underneath it. However,
they are now at a point where they can afford to make some changes because of the good
year they’ve had. He noted that they cannot afford to do it all at this time but there are
three things that they would like to see accomplished at this time. He stated that first they
need to have an elevator put in that meets the ADA requirements. They have been told
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that the cost for the elevator is approximately $200,000 compared to the $85,000 they
were previously told a few years ago.
Mr. Valliere explained what they would like to see done on the lower level and noted this
portion of the plan would cost approximately $342,000. He then explained what he
would like to see done on the upper level which would cost approximately $166,000. He
commented that the project has not yet been bid and that these are the architect’s
estimates and noted that they do include a percentage for overrun.
Mr. White asked Mr. Valliere if there will still be a long hallway between the pro shop
and the club room to which he indicated yes, however, it is something that he will look
into possibly changing. Mr. Valliere stated that at this time he is seeking approval from
the Park Board to move ahead on this project. He again noted because this was their best
year ever it unexpectedly put some money in their pockets that will help them accomplish
this. Mr. Herring asked how much for the two options to which Mr. Valliere replied
approximately $508,000.
Mr. Fredlund asked if the golf course is being required to install an elevator to which Mr.
Valliere replied at this time they are not required to but that in the near future they will.
Mr. Keprios noted that it is his understanding that when you make significant
improvements such as this it is a requirement.
Mr. Murrin indicated that he thinks $200,000 for an elevator is very expensive and noted
that a client of his put in two elevators at a senior center and it only cost $90,000 for two
elevators. Mr. White noted that he knows someone who put in an elevator at a building
he owned and it cost $120,000. Mr. Valliere commented that it would definitely help if
he could bring that number down.
Mr. Herring asked if $500,000 is put into the golf course are there any other crying needs
in the city right now. Mr. Keprios replied that the golf course has a long-range capital
plan that is going to be afforded assuming the golf course continues to do as well
financially as it has. This is the highest on their priority list of what needs to be done.
Mr. Klus asked wasn’t this master plan originally approved back in 1992 to which Mr.
Keprios replied yes and noted that Gordon Hughes, City Manager, wanted the Park Board
to revisit it to be sure the they had their current blessing. Mr. Herring asked about the
current debt to which Mr. Keprios replied that the golf course is doing so well financially
that they not only paid for their operating expenses and current debt but that their cash
flow is about $770,000 to the positive to date. He noted that the golfers are essentially
paying for all of these improvements and not tax dollars.
Mr. Klus suggested that one option would be to approve Mr. Valliere’s recommendation
up to $515,000.
Mr. Herring indicated that he thinks Mr. Valliere is just looking for a general approval.
Mr. Klus commented that he has a problem with general approvals but it always seems to
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cost a lot more than anticipated and we need to be somewhat fiscally responsible even
though the City Council can over rule us.
Tom White MOVED TO APPROVE GOING FORWARD WITH THE PLAN AND
BIDDING OUT OPTION 1 AND OPTION 2 AND THEN COME BACK TO THE
PARK BOARD WITH THE NUMBERS SO WE CAN HAVE ONE FINAL LOOK AT
IT BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD. Dave Fredlund SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
IV. SKATE PARK PROPOSAL - YORKTOWN PARK
Mr. Keprios gave a presentation on the proposed area for the skate park. He noted that it
is being called the “Tri-City Skate Park” because of the three communities involved. He
also noted that Mr. Herring should be credited for this because it was his idea. He stated
that all three cities are contributing $80,000 and that the YMCA will be putting in some
dollars for parking and possibly for some capital shortfall. Mr. Keprios explained that
they are currently waiting to hear the outcome of the ¼ million dollar grant they applied
for to help make this happen. Mr. Keprios noted that the beauty of the plan is that the
YMCA would run it, operate it, assume all operating losses and liability as well as cover
all insurance. This is a win, win for everyone involved. Mr. Keprios pointed out that if
for some reason it is no longer popular and we abandon it and decide not to make it a
skate park anymore, it’s on our property and we will decide what to do with it at that
time. Mr. Keprios showed where the free standing building would be located. He
commented that it will displace an adult practice softball field that hasn’t been very
desirable for quite some time and would require a lot of money to bring it up to a more
useable condition.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he is asking for the Park Board’s approval of this in concept
and then see what happens with the ¼ million dollar grant proposal. Mr. Herring asked if
the YMCA wants this next to their building to which Mr. Keprios replied yes, however,
the proposed site offers a greater opportunity for future outdoor skate park expansion.
Mr. Keprios stated that there are pros and cons to this. One of the pros is that there is no
requirement to have a YMCA membership to the use the facility, it’s just a flat fee that
the Park Board would be approving.
Mr. White asked if the condominium owners have been notified that this building may be
going up to which Mr. Keprios replied they have not yet notified them. However, he will
certainly do that before we get too far into the process. He stated that thankfully the
existing privately owned tennis courts serve as a pretty good buffer.
Mr. Finsness asked Mr. Keprios what he thinks the chances are for receiving the ¼
million dollar grant. Mr. Keprios noted that he thinks the chances are pretty good,
especially since it’s a collaborative effort with two other cities, which is looked upon as
very favorable. He stated that they hope to know by the end of the month. Mr. Klus
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asked about fundraising to which Mr. Keprios replied that they don’t have an organized
campaign yet because they want to see what the dollars and requirements are.
Mr. Grabiel asked what the Park Board has already approved on this. Mr. White replied
that the Park Board authorized Mr. Keprios to go forward and talk with the Southdale
YMCA as well as other cities and organizations to see if everyone could reach some sort
of a joint agreement as to how we could proceed.
Mr. Murrin asked if the YMCA would keep the profits to which Mr. Keprios replied there
will not be any profits. However, the YMCA is willing to assume and absorb any
operating losses.
Floyd Grabiel MOVED TO APPROVE THE SKATE PARK PROPOSAL IN
CONCEPT. John Murrin SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
V. BLUE RIBBON COMMITTEE UPDATE
Mr. Keprios indicated that he and Mr. MacHolda just attended their 12th Blue Ribbon
Committee meeting last night and they are making great progress. He noted that currently
there is 8.4 million dollars worth of city/park property improvements. Mr. Keprios then
handed out two lists to which one was sorted by park and the other was sorted by project.
Mr. Keprios explained that the Committee made great progress last night on the proposed
projects planned on being built on School District property. He noted that they have sent
the architect back on a charge to fill in some holes because we are still waiting for some
answers on some of the scenarios. He stated that they are still at a loss as to where to put
the bubble and the exact alignment of the gymnasiums. Mr. Keprios then handed out a
list on the School District property projects that are currently under consideration. There
is 21 million dollars listed at the east campus and $20,300,000 at the west campus for a
total of 41 million dollars. Mr. Keprios noted that a lot of this can change because if you
look at the west campus they are considering a 25 meter pool versus a 50 meter pool
which would definitely mean a difference in cost. Mr. Keprios indicated that the one area
they don’t have any figures on yet is the renovation of the soccer field on the lower level
on the inside of the track at the west campus, the architects are still working on those
numbers.
Mr. Keprios indicated that in looking at the different scenarios they need to determine
whether the soccer field at the west campus is within a flood plain, which therefore would
not work. He stated that they are also looking at possibly the Braemar soccer field site
and are waiting to hear on the feasibility as well as whether or not fire trucks can get back
there.
Mr. Keprios explained that if we were to build four gyms, there would be two at Valley
View, one at Concord and one at South View. With a 25 meter pool, the projects on
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School District property would come to $29,377,653.00 and then add to that the Park
Department’s 8.4 million, we are looking at a 37 million dollar referendum. He noted
that these are just some of the scenarios that they are looking at.
Mr. Murrin asked how well the performing arts is going over to which Mr. Keprios
replied he thinks it’s going very well, however, the Normandale Elementary people have
spoken very negatively about it. Mr. Klus commented that the people from Normandale
have been against everything. Mr. Murrin asked if Normandale School is pretty positive
about doing some of the performing arts on the west side campus to which Mr. Keprios
replied that they might be, however, they have not discussed it.
Ms. Sitek indicated that she thinks Concord is the perfect place for the gyms and noted
that she gets annoyed that we listen so much to the people from Normandale. Mr.
Keprios stated that Dr. Dragseth is currently trying to figure out a way to get through this
and address the concerns of parents who have children in the Normandale Elementary
French Emersion School. He noted that there seems to be a lot of support for the
performing arts and all of the field improvements and gyms. He stated that he also thinks
we are getting closer to having an answer for the pool. Mr. Murrin asked if they are
leaning towards a 25 meter pool or a 50 meter pool to which Mr. Keprios responded that
he thinks when all is said and done it will probably be a 25 meter pool. Mr. White asked
if the operating costs are a lot higher for a 50 meter pool to which Mr. Keprios responded
that the architect has indicated it would only cost an additional $35,000, however, that
estimate is speculative at this point in time. He noted that Mr. MacHolda and he were
both surprised by that number and feel it might be considerably higher than that. Mr.
MacHolda stated that he was very surprised by what he heard last night because when he
compares the report from last night to the report they did in 1997 there is a $400,000
difference in terms of building and a $20,000 to $30,000 in terms of operation. Mr.
Keprios commented that the University of Minnesota will also tell you that the numbers
in the report are not realistic. He noted that he thinks TSP was put on a real fast track to
come up with some answers and therefore, didn’t have enough time to thoroughly
research the operating expenses. He noted that they have been asked to revisit the
numbers on the 50 meter pool and to also see if it would actually fit on that site. Mr.
Murrin asked Mr. Klus if he thinks we really need a 50 meter pool in the community to
which he replied yes, he thinks we do if we are going to stay in competitive swimming.
Mr. MacHolda pointed out that at the College Division 2 and 3 levels, 50 meter pools are
unheard of and at Division 1 you see very few. He commented that 50 meter pools are
even becoming obsolete in the outdoor setting. More and more people are demolishing
50 meter pools and putting in family aquatic centers. Mr. MacHolda stated that if all of
the high schools across the country were surveyed you would probably find that Edina is
the only high school with a 50 meter pool. Mr. Keprios commented that swim clubs are
the ones who need 50 meter pools, and that high school kids do not need 50 meter pools.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he thinks an argument could be made that maybe a 50 meter
pool should be built somewhere as a regional pool and get the state involved.
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Mr. White asked if they would be able to generate money with a 50 meter pool that they
wouldn’t be able to do with a 25 meter pool. Mr. MacHolda replied that he’s convinced
that a 50 meter pool would be busy, however, the competitive swimmer is not used to
paying what it costs to operate the facility and it would need to be subsidized. Mr.
Keprios added that of all of the 50 meter pools he could find in the United States, not one
of them could break even. Mr. Klus asked if a 25 meter pool would be financially viable
to which Mr. MacHolda replied their facilities are very old and outdated and do not
provide enough lanes to have a true high school meet. Therefore, he feels that the plan
that is currently in place would work very well. Mr. Klus again asked if this is a viable
option or will they lose money on it. Mr. MacHolda responded that the only way pools
have become profitable is through the family aquatic centers. Mr. Murrin asked Mr.
MacHolda if he thinks there is going to be a loss no matter what size the pool is to which
Mr. MacHolda responded it will not be a revenue producer but than again neither are
basketball courts. Mr. Klus asked if the school will be responsible for the pool even
though the bond issue is offered by the City of Edina to which it was noted that is going
to be part of the discussion. From the start, the city’s position has been that the City of
Edina is willing to put up all of the dollars to build new facilities and improve existing
ones on school property only if the school agrees to operate them on a 30 year agreement
and offer the community guaranteed access.
Mr. Herring indicated that it sounds like the referendum will be in the high 30’s to low 40
million dollars. Mr. Keprios stated that the committee does not know what the final
dollar will be yet because there is still some editing that needs to be done.
Mr. Herring asked what is the merchandising plan on all of this to which Mr. Keprios
replied they haven’t gotten that far yet. Currently their job is to make a recommendation
to what and where facilities need to be placed and that there is a validated need. Their
report will be in both written and power point form and will be presented to the City
Council in January. Mr. Herring commented that he thinks one of the key things here is
to make sure that we go out and sell this to the community.
Mr. Klus asked for some insight on the proposed park projects and asked why some of the
playground equipment that was on the last referendum is listed again. Mr. Keprios
explained that it is for ADA compliant access surfaces to playground equipment, which
was intentionally omitted from the 1996 referendum.
Mr. Herring asked if everything for the Aquatic Center has been included to which Mr.
Keprios replied yes. Mr. Keprios explained that the reason they are asking for 1.5 million
for that aquatic center is that we need a revenue source to fund our long-term capital
improvement plan. The plan is to use the aquatic center revenues to pay back that 1.5
million dollar loan on the non-interest bearing note that will become a large share of the
capital plan’s funding source beginning in the year 2003.
Mr. Keprios commented that Mr. MacHolda has done so well this year that he could
make some pretty significant improvements without having to borrow any money. The
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Aquatic Center has a very strong, positive cash flow and our thinking is that we are going
to need a source of revenue to fund our long-term capital improvement plan. Mr. Keprios
stated that they thought it made some sense to give the aquatic center 1.5 million dollars
up front to do all of their improvements right now. The Aquatic Center will then pay the
1.5 million back in time on a non-interest bearing note which will cost the aquatic center
less in the long-run while funding the general parks’ capital improvement plan. Mr.
Murrin asked what would be done to which Mr. MacHolda gave a presentation last month
on what he would like to see accomplished at the pool. He noted that the big ticket is
replacing the water slide. He indicated that he would also like to introduce a new feature,
an inner tube ride. Mr. MacHolda indicated that he hopes to have a structural engineer
come out in the spring and assess it and see what we need to do just to make sure it’s
operational for this year and make sure it’s safe. He stated that he doesn’t want to spend
any more money than he needs to because he plans to go forward with the water slide in
2001 whether or not the referendum passes. He explained that he will take the dollars
generated from 2000-2001 and some short term finance dollars to get it done. Mr.
Herring suggested to Mr. MacHolda that he look into adding a third slide because no
matter how many slides there are there will still be huge lines. Therefore, for the
marginal additional cost to add a third slide would be good. Mr. MacHolda responded
that he will look into it. He then commented that he is real pleased with how the master
plan has turned out and whether there’s a referendum or not he would like to show the
general public that they can expect this in 2002 or 2003.
Mr. Fredlund asked about the playground equipment at Van Valkenburg Park to which
Mr. Keprios responded that the plan is to finish off the little neighborhood park section of
the park near the water tower, which has been requested by the neighborhood for some
time.
Mr. Murrin asked if this will solve a lot of the problems that we were worried about
because of the last referendum to which Mr. Keprios replied he hopes so and also
commented that he believes that the community is going to be thrilled.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
John Murrin MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:00 P.M. Karla Sitek
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.