HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000-01-11 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 P.M.
EDINA HISTORICAL SOCIETY ROOM
ARNESON ACRES PARK
JANUARY 11, 2000
_______________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Andy Herring, Chuck Mooty, Tom White, David Fredlund, Karla
Sitek, Andy Finsness, Floyd Grabiel, George Klus, Linda Presthus,
Bill Jenkins, John Murrin
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Todd Anderson
OTHERS PRESENT: Bob Kojetin, Kay Wetherall, Rick Ites, John Towey, John Justice
_______________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE DECEMBER 14, 1999 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Floyd Grabiel MOVED TO APPROVE THE DECEMBER 14, 1999 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Dave Fredlund SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. EDINA HISTORICAL SOCIETY PRESENTATION AND MUSEUM TOUR -
BOB KOJETIN
Mr. Keprios introduced Bob Kojetin, President of the Edina Historical Society. Mr.
Kojetin then introduced Kay Wetherall, the executive secretary for the Edina Historical
Society. Mr. Kojetin and Ms. Wetherall gave the Park Board a tour of the Edina
Historical Society.
Mr. Kojetin explained that the City of Edina is 110 years old. He then noted that the Park
Board is 70 years old and that the Park and Recreation Department is 45 years old. He
pointed out that the Park Board was developed basically because they wanted to protect
Minnehaha Creek because Minneapolis was moving up the creek and buying land.
Therefore, the Park Board was formed to stop building along the creek except in the
Country Club area. Mr. Kojetin indicated that the Park Board was an elected office until
1955 when Edina went into a city government and it became an appointed board.
Mr. Kojetin indicated that the Historical Society also has two other buildings they take
care of, the Grange Hall and the Old Cahill School. He noted that there are 11 members
on the Historical Society Board. He stated that at the Cahill School there are three part-
time teachers who conduct 172 days of school each year. He noted that kids from all over
the state come to the Old Cahill School. The program was been going on since 1971. He
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noted that it costs $150.00 per day for schools to come to Cahill School and that the
teachers are paid $80.00 a day.
Mr. Kojetin commented that last year their expenses were around $31,000 and they took
in $33,000, so budget wise they came out good. He also explained that their one big
fundraiser is a book sale that is held in October. Last year they raised approximately
$3,000 which was used to help operate the facility. Mr. Kojetin stated that the Historical
Society is open to the public for a few hours on Thursdays and Saturdays.
Mr. Kojetin pointed out where the books are that contain all of the history of Edina. He
noted that in the last year they have also started to do oral interviews of people who come
in and give a history of past relatives, families, etc. This way when people are trying to
find out about something they can sit down and listen to a tape. This is a fairly new
project they have currently been working on.
Mr. Kojetin explained that he does have a concern. The facility needs to be maintained
and taken care of and being a non-profit organization it is difficult to raise funds to
maintain a building of its size. He indicated that from the beginning the Historical
Society has always been under Park and Recreation and the city has always paid for the
heat, light, electricity as well as a janitor to come in and clean the downstairs. However,
there are starting to be more problems such as the ceiling is leaking, the outside exterior
needs painting as well as a few other items. He noted that these are items that they look
back to the city for funding. He also pointed out that Arneson Acres still needs a new
entrance as well as a new sign. He commented that possibly the Garden Club and
Historical Society can work together on these projects. However, he doesn’t know that
they will be able to raise money for work on the actual building.
Mr. Herring thanked Mr. Kojetin for his time and for making the facility available for the
Park Board’s meeting.
Mr. Keprios commented that we are very fortunate to have the Historical Society, we look
at them like one of our Athletic Associations because they also provide a tremendous
service with volunteer help. They are a very active, dedicated group that we are very
fortunate to have.
III. BRAEMAR MEN’S CLUB PRESENTATION
Mr. Keprios indicated that the Braemar Men’s Club asked to be put on the agenda
because they would like to voice their concerns and views as well as inform the Park
Board a about the Braemar Men’s Club.
Rick Ites, last year’s President of the Braemar Men’s Club, stated that they are here to
help give some insight on what makes Braemar Golf Course a nice place and not just
from their perspective. He indicated that Braemar is self-supporting, however, they are
concerned when expenditures and capital improvements go up that the process might be
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impaired in the future. He explained that there are going to need to be some significant
items added to the new golf course. Mr. Valliere has received a lot of negative feedback
on this and has stated there are some capital items that have not yet been set in motion.
Mr. Ites indicated that they would therefore like to hear some direction that the Park
Board is going to take at the facility.
Mr. Towey explained that the basis of their concern lies in the fact that any good golf
course needs to have a continuing program to keep itself at the level it wishes to be. He
noted they are concerned that the Park Board has decided that some of the capital
expenditures that have been requested are not going to be considered. Therefore, they
want to know if that is a sign of what they are looking at down the road. Will funds that
are generated by the course going to always be put back into the golf course. He pointed
out that approximately 40 years ago one of the most prominent golf courses in the United
States was owned by the City of Minneapolis. It was self-sustaining and had a program
of regenerating income back into the course each year. However, sometime around 1960
much of the money that was generated started going into the general fund and not back
into the golf course. He indicated that in 1997 they did start to put a large scale of money
back into the golf courses. He noted that all went back to a decision that was made 40
years ago when the money looked so good that they put it into the general fund, therefore,
the courses dipped so dramatically that they are not even a shadow of what they once
were. He explained that is an indication of how fast things can go if we are not able to
sustain the golf course. Mr. Towey stated that golf courses go in one of two directions,
they either go forwards or backgrounds, they do not stay the same.
Mr. Justice indicated that he is an Edina resident and does play a lot of golf at Braemar.
He stated that there are a lot of golf courses out there and Braemar is competing for the
golfer like everyone else. He noted that he would like to see improvements continue to be
made, the course cannot stand still.
Mr. Keprios indicated that one of the main reasons why some of the improvements that
were talked about aren’t being done immediately is because the golf course first needs to
pay back its debt due to overspending on the development of the new nine. The golf
course has done very well financially and has been able to cover its bonded indebtedness
and operational expenses, as well as still have some money left over. Mr. Keprios stated
that all of Braemar’s cash deficit should be paid off before anything more is built. He
noted that was a staff decision and not the Park Board’s.
Mr. Herring indicated that Mr. Valliere and his staff do an outstanding job, they’re very
focused on costs and make sure that they get the most out of their investments and capital
spending with respect to the golf course. He noted that he feels even with the changes in
fees Braemar is still right down the middle given the quality of the golf course compared
to other area golf courses. Mr. Herring stated that he has played a lot of golf at Braemar
and he hears the concern that is being made. However, at this point he feels they are
making the necessary capital investments with respect to the equipment and facilities at
Braemar. He noted that he personally is not willing to commit that we would never want
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to take excess funds from our golf courses and use them for other purposes. He stated
that his number one commitment, with respect to the income that is received from the
golf courses, is to make sure that we are making an adequate reinvestment to maintain the
high level of quality that we currently enjoy.
Mr. Herring stated that right now Park and Recreation is very capital constrained. This is
an issue throughout the whole system right now and is something that staff and the Park
Board are currently working on. Mr. Herring commented that his feeling is the golf
course is in good shape for the upcoming season. He noted he thinks that is what he is
hearing from the Braemar Men’s Club, the concern is where are we going in the future.
Mr. Herring indicated that Mr. Keprios is very good at keeping his staff informed and
therefore if anything comes up Mr. Valliere will be made aware of it. He informed the
Braemar Men’s Club that if there are any issues that come up he would like to hear from
them. He again noted that Braemar Golf Course is a very valued resource and we are
going to continue to maintain it.
IV. CITY/SCHOOL REFERENDUM
Mr. Keprios indicated that there was some very good discussion at the joint meeting with
the Park Board and City Council and one of the subjects that came up was the proposed
referendum. He noted that he and Mr. Mooty have tried to keep the Park Board informed
on what has been happening in the process. He explained that the Park Board really
hasn’t been engaged on the development as far as input from the start. Therefore, it
might be a little premature to ask the Park Board to just outwardly endorse the whole
thing at this point because it is still taking shape. Mr. Keprios explained that currently the
architects are discussing what all of the possibilities are.
Mr. Klus stated that he heard that right now with everything added up there are 25 million
dollars worth of improvements. He asked how much of that has come from Park and
Recreation. Mr. Mooty commented that the most recent number has been 15 million
dollars and noted that he would like to try to give a little bit of perspective as to how it
has gotten to this point. He explained that it basically started because the seating at the
football stadium was being condemned and there was a group that was asked to be put
together to look at the possibility of really enhancing that whole football stadium. People
from the school district, school board, park board and some residents were asked to be
part of this process and so for a couple meetings there was simply discussion on what
potential improvements and enhancements would be appropriate for the football stadium
as well as what seemed to be feasible.
Mr. Herring noted that he thought this actually went back to some of the earlier
discussions regarding the senior center/community center at the Kunz Lewis site. Mr.
Mooty indicated that the issue to begin with was simply the football stadium at the
community center. He then explained that he has been a major proponent in trying to get
some additional gyms at the community center that he stuck his foot out to some degree
and asked to look at the possibility of having the gymnasium concept be added on to the
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whole football stadium concept and therefore that was added. Not only were they looking
at adding new gymnasiums but were also looking at refurbishing some of the gyms at
South View Middle School and the community center. At that time other components
were being added such as having a new baseball facility, upgrading the theatre, etc. and
therefore it continued to gain momentum and as items were added the cost continued to
grow as well. Mr. Mooty commented that it is still being defined as far as what is being
done. The experts have been brought in to put together proposals as far as the
enhancements. Mr. Mooty indicated that he feels copies of the proposal need to be given
to the Park Board because it doesn’t do justice to try to explain it without everyone
having a chance to read it.
Mr. Mooty pointed out that now what has happened is other groups are wanting to get
into this as well. One group wants to find a way to enhance the pools and another group
wants to find a way to figure out enhancements at other public facilities and parks. It has
really snowballed and we are to a point where anybody who has an interest in trying to do
something is trying to see what potentially can be tossed in the ring. Mr. Mooty stated
that none of the items are inappropriate or unjustified it’s just that it has created its own
direction based upon the momentum right now. Therefore, that is why the Park Board
and the City to a large degree haven’t been the ones dictating what all has been done
because it really started out as a school issue. However, once it looked like it was going
to become a bond issue we started to look at some of these things on school property and
avoid some of the additional investment of having to acquire property. This way we
would be able to utilize a lot of things that are already on school property from an
infrastructure standpoint. Also, the economics of trying to do it within a school
arrangement made the most sense as far as trying to pull this together. The schools do not
want to add more costs because from their standpoint they have decent capacity with the
gymnasiums and what not. Those are needs for park and recreation and after school
programs. Therefore, the City has had to step in to be viewed as being a major play in
this if it’s to get off the ground. Mr. Mooty also pointed out there are geographic issues
as far as what can actually fit on that space because there are limitations as to what can be
done.
Mr. Klus noted that it seemed to him at the meeting with the City Council last week that
the city is still opening the doors to new proposals and ideas. However, at the same time
it sounds like everyone is still pushing for a May referendum and he doesn’t know how
that is going to work.
Mr. Mooty indicated that his concern is this project will take approximately three years to
complete. Therefore, if something is not approved by May we will lose another year of
utilization. Mr. Klus commented that the City is saying they want to get this done by
May, therefore, do we still have time as a Park Board to give them input if they want our
input. Mr. Mooty replied that it seems to him that as a board we need to focus on what
are our priorities as well as what would we like to see accomplished. Also, how does that
list fall in line with the list that’s in this proposal and the list of projects from Park and
Recreation for 4 million. He noted that he thinks the City Council is just trying to get
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some feedback from the Park Board to see if this all falls within our priorities. Is the
project fulfilling the needs of the Park Board as to what should be done. He commented
that some of the items aren’t necessarily related to Park and Recreation, such as
enhancements to the theatre, etc.
Mr. Herring asked Mr. Murrin what his sense is of the school’s boards feeling about this
and their priorities. Mr. Murrin commented that first of all Mr. Mooty has had a huge
role in developing this, he did a lot to get people in the community interested in what we
can do for the kids to deal with some of the overflow issues that we have. He noted that
there is some very significant synergism from the school district’s desire to get things
going. The School Board, however, is looking at this as a really great opportunity and is
pushing to see it done earlier rather than later. However, it’s kind of out of the School
Board’s area but he knows that the superintendent and the City have been talking about
the Kunz Lewis site for a long time. He noted that the school district owns the bus garage
and that the City needs that property to help make everything work and so that also comes
into play.
Mr. Keprios explained that the Kunz Lewis issue really did spark a lot of ideas and
creative thinking. He indicated that at that time the City Council directed staff to follow-
up on studies to show whether their ideas would work or not and one of the thoughts was
to have a community center at the Kunz Lewis site. Therefore, every community center
in the Twin Cities area was studied and his report pointed out how park and recreation is
desperately in need of extra gym space. At that time, Mr. MacHolda was then sent off on
a charge to study the gym situation and after his comprehensive study it was determined
that we are a minimum of four gymnasiums short but ideally we could use an additional
six gymnasiums. Mr. Keprios indicated that once there was talk of having a community
center that is when the neighborhood groups and associations got on the band wagon and
came up with a wonderful proposal. The proposal was to build an indoor football
stadium with gymnasiums and a senior center and all the needs of Edina were going to be
fulfilled within this one structure. Mr. Keprios indicated that after this he was then sent
on a charge by the City Council to look into a public/private partnership that would
accomplish the gymnasium aspect and still have a health club atmosphere. After that the
Edina Swim Club came forward asking for a 50 meter indoor pool. Therefore, a study
was done on 50 meter pools which showed that they cost a lot of money to operate and
begged the question who is going to pay for that. Mr. Keprios stated that in all of this he
thinks that staff really helped to identify what the true needs are versus the desires. There
is definitely a need in Edina for gymnasiums, a better swimming facility and we are
definitely short of field space. These are the key items. He commented that the
auditorium, bleachers and a few other items are, in his view, primarily more school
related issues.
Mr. Keprios explained that there are still some things that need to fall into place as we
head down the road with this referendum. First of all, we need to figure out who is going
to pay for the operational expenses and how are they going to be paid. Secondly, if
there’s going to be a charge how much is it going to be. Thirdly, who is going to control
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the facility, will there be some kind of a joint powers agreement between the City and
School District as far as access to it. He pointed out that park and recreation currently
receives calls from the school district saying we can’t use a gym at a particular time
because something has come up. When this happens all of the coaches need to be
notified so that they can inform their players. He stated that this has been an ongoing
significant problem for years. He also noted that park and recreation programs cannot use
the high school gymnasiums on Wednesday evenings because that is the night they clean
the facility and it’s those types of issues we constantly have to deal with. Therefore, we
need to get something in writing if we are going into this joint venture.
Mr. Klus asked if what he is hearing is that the Park Board doesn’t need to be concerned
tonight about looking at items for the bond issue. There is still time to do this in the
future and asked where are we at with this. Mr. Keprios replied that people need to be
informed before they vote and if they are not, it’s going to probably be a no vote. We
need ample time to inform the public and answer their questions. His opinion is that right
now to have a vote in May is going to be tough but it is possible. Mr. Herring
commented that for the last referendum Mr. Jenkins attended all of the neighborhood
meetings at each park and explained how it was going to be done and he feels that was
critical to the success of the last referendum.
Ms. Presthus indicated that some of the facilities, such as the classrooms, are clearly
school facilities and have nothing to do with the city. Therefore, isn’t the city going to
have a little problem voting on a referendum on things that aren’t for them. Mr. Mooty
responded that on that particular item the school will finish that space out of their own
dollars.
Ms. Presthus commented that some of the concerns she has heard is whose money is this.
Mr. Mooty replied that is going to be a big issue that both the City Council and School
District have to try to figure out. He noted there is a split there but it’s very confusing in
trying to figure out where the split is. However, they feel very comfortable that the legal
issue can be dealt with. It’s going to be hard to figure out how to properly allocate it.
Ms. Presthus stated that’s where the concern is, as it keeps growing how many things can
be put in it. Mr. Murrin indicated that if it’s a school item there is money that they can
allocate to it. He noted that as he understands it the city and school are pretty much in
tune on this and they don’t seem to have a conflict.
Mr. Murrin stated that if the school wants to add something and it’s totally their program
there are funds to pay for it. In fact there is state money for the stadium because it has
been condemned. Mr. Herring stated that if there’s money for the stadium then it’s not in
the referendum. Mr. Murrin noted there is money for just the bleachers, nothing else. It
would still part of the referendum because there are other things that need to be done.
Mr. White asked what is the time line on the bleachers, when do they have to be done.
Mr. Mooty replied that it is his understanding that by the end of this calendar year a
formal plan has to be in written form and approved by the state indicating that it’s going
to be done in a certain time period.
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Mr. White indicated that he doesn’t feel comfortable voting on this tonight to approve it
and send it off to the City Council. He asked if it can be put off until the February Park
Board meeting where Mr. Keprios can address the concerns that have been made, which
are all valid and important. Mr. Mooty commented so that the Park Board is not the one
holding up the process in addition to reviewing the proposal we should also be reviewing
the proposals by staff as far as items they would like to see done if we were to have
additional dollars put in. Therefore, we are looking at both issues at the same time so that
at the February Park Board meeting we are looking at both sides of the picture. Ms.
Presthus commented that we are already three months behind, don’t we need to do it now
or at least say we will be willing if crunch comes to crunch. Mr. Jenkins noted that it’s
not going to be done in May because there are still too many things up in the air. He
stated that the key to this whole thing is educating the people and letting them know
what’s going on.
Mr. Klus indicated that he thought he heard Mayor Maetzold say the referendum has to
go in May. Therefore, if the Park Board doesn’t take action tonight is that going to be
okay. Mr. Keprios replied that the school would like to shoot for May.
Mr. Murrin stated that his feeling is that by delaying this it is like a no vote. He stated
that what he is hearing is May is a better time to have the referendum than in November
for the general election. Mr. Jenkins commented that November is not a good time to do
this. Mr. Murrin noted that there has been a lot of work done on this and sometimes time
is of the essence. He pointed out that there has been talk about private funding behind
this and he feels it’s an opportunity whose time is here. Therefore, it would be nice if the
Park Board could give its blessing in some way and at the next meeting we will be
prepared with all of the information and what has been thought out by the professionals.
Mr. Mooty commented that if the pool issue comes into play and the Park Board elements
come into play there is no way the referendum will take place in May because there are
too many other dimensions that are going to need greater explanation. He noted that he
believes if it is just the community center concept that is something that can easily be
explained in a time period that could suffice. However, he doesn’t think that is probably
ideal, but it could suffice if it is just the community center concept. Mr. Mooty stated that
his perspective is depending on what all is potentially added into it is what is really going
to dictate the time frame that’s going to be doable.
Mr. White again commented that he doesn’t think the Park Board has enough information
to vote on this tonight. He stated that he’s okay giving his initial blessing that we will
vote on it next month but is not quite sure what that will do.
Mr. Mooty commented that right now we don’t even know what we are voting on. He
stated that what he thinks the Park Board has control of is listing the priority of what we
want money for. What are the needs and what is it going to cost to fulfill those needs. If
we are comfortable with the listing that was put together by staff that could then be
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proposed to the City Council as to what we think is relevant. He noted that he thinks this
group is relatively knowledgeable on the proposals of improvements that have been put
forth. However, are those ones that we think we should be asking for or do we think we
should be asking for more. Mr. Mooty commented that is something he feels the Park
Board can try to make a decision on.
Mr. Herring indicated that what he read in the staff report is that the City Council wants
the Park Board to make a recommendation regarding the city/school referendum. Mr.
Klus stated that what he thought the City Council was asking for was a recommendation
from the Park Board on what they would like to see added to the referendum. Mr.
Keprios commented that he understands the directive to be “Does the Park Board endorse
or not endorse the referendum.”
Mr. Herring commented that his problem is he’s not sure what’s in and what’s not in as
well as what is the City paying for and what is the School District paying for. Also, he’s
not sure what the joint use agreement is going to be. Mr. Herring also noted that there are
a lot of things on the capital expenditure plan that he feels more strongly about than
swimming pools. He noted that he can’t just say yes, we want everything on our capital
expenditure plan to be included in the referendum.
George Klus MOVED TO TABLE THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE
REFERENDUM PROPOSAL UNTIL THE FEBRUARY PARK BOARD MEETING.
Mr. White indicated that he would like the Park Board members to receive a copy of the
packet next week to read over the next few weeks and that way we will all be informed
and ready to go at the February Park Board meeting. He noted that he doesn’t want to
delay the process but it can’t be voted on tonight. Mr. Mooty replied that he also doesn’t
think we can vote tonight. However, when everyone looks at the proposal they also need
to see if there are other things that should be added as well as list the priorities. He also
noted that we still don’t have anything on the pool so at this time we can’t make any
judgment on the pool.
Mr. Finsness noted that in the capital budget there is a lot of money going into the fields
and indicated he would like to know how pressing it is for that to be done next year. Is it
something that could wait another year.
Ms. Sitek indicated that her biggest concern is this agreement. Are we going to be able to
deal with the school and will we have the information on the operating costs, etc., done
by next month. Mr. Keprios replied that he honestly doesn’t know, that’s an important
question. Mr. White commented that one of the things we can say to the City Council is
we vote yes to go forward with this but only with these caveats and then list those.
Floyd Grabiel SECONDED THE MOTION.
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IN FAVOR: Chuck Mooty, Andy Herring, Tom White, Andy Finsness, Bill Jenkins,
Karla Sitek, Linda Presthus, Floyd Grabiel, David Fredlund, George Klus
OPPOSED: John Murrin
V. MEMORIALS AND DONATIONS POLICY
Mr. Herring stated that with the lateness of the hour he would like to put the donations
and memorial policy off until the next Park Board meeting.
VI. BRAEMAR PARK PATHWAY UPDATE
Mr. Herring indicated that he is satisfied with the staff report on the Braemar Park
pathway update. Mr. Grabiel asked does he understand correctly that what is in white is
currently there and what is noted in red is to be built at some point in the future. Mr.
Keprios noted that the parts in red are by the Bloomington border and those areas we are
struggling with as far as getting easements. However, we do have a new strategy in place
and will be trying again. Ms. Presthus asked how long is the path to which Mr. Keprios
replied he has asked the Engineering Department to put a wheel to it when it is
completed. Right now it is approximately three miles.
VII. COMMUNITY EDUCATION SERVICES REPORT - LINDA PRESTHUS
Ms. Presthus handed out a brochure and indicated that they have been working very hard
on this program. They are not going to do it every year because it is such a big thing but
it looks like it’s going to be a good event.
Ms. Presthus indicated that they also have three web sites that they are using as a
fundraiser which is on-line shopping. The kick back goes to the school and all you have
to do is register with them. It’s a great fundraiser for community education programs.
VIII. OTHER
A. Year 2000 Park Board Meeting Schedule - Mr. Herring reminded the Park Board
members that the next meeting is on Wednesday, February 9th, at the Edina Art Center.
B. Asset Building Town Meeting Reminder (Tuesday, February 8th).- Mr. Herring
indicated that this is a very important meeting and asked that everyone attend if possible.
C. Sale of Park Land (Fox Meadow Park) and Memorial Policy - Mr. Herring asked Mr.
Keprios to take these two topics off of the February Park Board agenda. He indicated that
he wants to have plenty of time to talk about the referendum. Mr. Klus asked Mr.
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Keprios to also send out a map of where Fox Meadow Park is located so he is familiar
with it.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Chuck Mooty MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:15 P.M. Karla Sitek
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.