HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-06-11 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:00 P.M.
EDINA COUNCIL CHAMBERS
JUNE 11, 2002
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Andy Finsness, Mike Damman, Linda Presthus,
Allyson Grande, Dave Fredlund, Karla Sitek, Tom White, Ardis
Wexler, George Klus, Jeff Johnson
MEMBERS ABSENT: Floyd Grabiel
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Todd
Anderson, Donna Tilsner, Melissa Jutz
OTHERS PRESENT: Jean Hedberg, Tim Gill, Charlie Troup, Zach Freeman,
Paul Buck
______________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE TUESDAY, MAY 14, 2002 PARK BOARD
MINUTES
Ardis Wexler MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAY 14, 2002 PARK BOARD MINUTES.
George Klus SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. GOLF LEAGUE PAYMENT POLICY – TODD ANDERSON
Todd Anderson, Assistant Golf Course Manager, handed out an overview of the
prepayment policy. He explained that league play is very important at Braemar, it is a
big piece of their business and is a large part of the game of golf. There are 439 players
in the men’s leagues and 1,361 players in the women’s leagues. Mr. Anderson explained
that as far as history goes the leagues have been signing up pretty much the same way for
the past 25 years. They play each week and at that time they sign up generally before or
after their play for the following week.
Mr. Anderson pointed out that the leagues vary in size from large to small. The season
lasts for 14 to 16 weeks and the leagues require their members to play 8 to 10 times
because not every league member will play every week. During the last few years,
however, they have seen a decline in the waiting lists as well as a decline in play. He
noted that it seems as though a lot of the golfers have become fair weather golfers where
they wouldn’t have played had they not been required to play. Also, towards the end of
the season when members have achieved their required events, attendance drops off even
more. Mr. Anderson explained that it would be okay if the leagues would contract the
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numbers of times that they play so that the golf course could open those slots up and sell
them to the public. He noted that in the past that has not happened. Mr. Anderson
commented that the exception to that is the Men’s Club who play on Tuesdays and
Thursdays who avoid this by having guaranteed times. Within their league there are five
or six players per foursome and they have a designated captain that determines who is
going to play each week. Therefore, there are virtually no no-shows.
Mr. Anderson pointed that in league play for the 2001 season the tally of no-shows was
estimated at $50,000 in value. He stated that in 2000 they sent out a memo informing the
leagues that they would probably have to go to the prepayment policy if attendance was
poor. In the year 2000 it was a $20,000 impact, which jumped tremendously the
following year to $50,000. Therefore, we determined the best way to address the issue
was to go to a prepayment system. He noted that they didn’t want to require the leagues
to pay the full season but at least pay on a week-by-week basis guaranteeing the number
of players. He commented that for the most part the new system has had mixed reviews.
Mr. Anderson explained that they feel they have committed a tee time to the golfer,
which the golfer needs to pay for. He noted that all of the other programs that are offered
through the city are based on a pre-pay basis, not on a pay as you go each week basis.
Mr. Anderson stated that their goal is not to create a hardship for anyone but only ask that
people pay for what they reserve.
Mr. Fredlund indicated that he doesn’t quite understand the “pre-pay for the season.” Mr.
Anderson stated that each league does this differently. One league does pre-pay for the
whole season. Other leagues pay quarterly and some leagues pay weekly. He explained
that as an incentive to make the transition easier they did give each person in the league a
free round of golf and for those who pre-paid the whole season they received two free
rounds of golf.
Ms. Wexler asked what was decided in terms of rainouts for the people who prepaid for
the entire season. Mr. Anderson responded that it varies from league to league because
they are all paying differently. There will be a credit if the course and the league chair
determine together that it is an official rainout. Mr. Anderson noted that their goal is not
to have someone pay for something that they can’t use and if the course is unplayable or
it is extremely cold or rainy they prefer not to play. Mr. Fredlund asked how do you pre-
pay on a weekly basis. Mr. Anderson explained that they do it in a variety of ways.
Some of the leagues individually buy rain checks and then turn them in each week to the
league chair. Some collect the monies paid to the league chair and they write one check.
One league actually has a list of credit card numbers that they run each week. Ms.
Presthus asked if there have been less no-shows with the new system to which Mr.
Anderson replied there have virtually been no no-shows.
Mr. Anderson noted that they explored other avenues over the past several years and this
seems to be the best solution. Ms. Wexler commented that technically you could have no
shows but they are paid for anyway. For example, in the case when a league player does
not show for a 7:30 a.m. tee time, a walk-in standby golfer could fill that spot at the last
minute. Mr. Anderson explained that ideally they would like to have at least five days in
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advance so they can open it up to their patron player. Once you get to five minutes
before the tee time the likelihood of somebody standing there waiting to take the tee time
is not very good.
Ms. Wexler asked if some of the leagues have lost members because of the new policy.
Mr. Anderson responded that some of the leagues did say they lost some members but
those leagues also had waiting lists. Mr. Wexler commented that her league lost close to
40% of their members and they did not have a waiting list. She added that there were a
variety of reasons why the golfers left. It was not just because of the new policy. Ms.
Wexler indicated that in her league next year they will only have 22 golfers in the 18-hole
leagues and asked if they will have a problem getting tee times. Mr. Klus asked if there
is a number that’s required for league play. Mr. Anderson replied that is a rumor that has
been going around and that is not the case at all.
Mr. Finsness asked if this is standard operating procedure at other golf courses to which
Mr. Anderson replied that virtually all of the surrounding courses have been doing it this
way for years.
Jean Hedberg, president of the Braemar Golf Association, commented that she knows
there has been a lot of unhappiness with the members and they have lost a lot of league
players. She also noted, however, that she does understand where Braemar is coming
from because the leagues were given the chance to correct the situation. Ms. Hedberg
pointed out that at the Braemar Golf Board meeting last week Mr. Valliere indicated that
he is willing to work with the presidents of the leagues to try and come up with a system
that will work for everyone.
Ms. Presthus asked how down are the number of rounds this year to which Mr. Anderson
replied they are currently down approximately $60,000 which overall is not that bad all
things considered.
III. Frisbee Golf Course Proposal
Mr. Keprios explained that three high school students approached Donna Tilsner, Park
and Recreation Supervisor, about a school project they were working on. He indicated
that Zach Freeman and Charlie Troup would explain their project. He noted that Alex
Darvit also worked on the project but was unable to attend tonight’s Park Board meeting.
He stated that the gentlemen did a lot of work and put a lot of thought into the project and
he is very proud of what they have accomplished.
Mr. Freeman explained that the high school started a new project this year called “May
Term” and they decided they wanted to do something outdoors for their project. He
indicated that their idea was to design a disc golf course. Mr. Freeman pointed out that
disc golf is played with a disc that usually weighs between 150 to 180 grams and is
thrown into a cage. He noted that their proposal is for a nine-hole course at Rosland
Park. He noted that they walked around the park trying to decide where each of the nine
holes would best fit in the course. Mr. Troup noted that they are mostly using the
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wooded area where there are no grills and it is pretty much an open space area. He
indicated that for three weeks they looked at disc golf courses throughout the Twin Cities
area. Mr. Troup pointed out that disc golf is a great community sport because it doesn’t
cost anything for players to play and people of all ages can play the sport.
Mr. Freeman commented that the whole project would cost approximately $3,500 for the
nine cages and signs. He noted that they were hoping that Park and Recreation could put
in the cement tee boxes. He added that there would be a rules sign posted. He pointed
out that looking at the diagram it looks like there are hazards with the swimming pool,
parking lot, softball field, volleyball court, etc. However, most of the courses they visited
in the Twin Cities area had similar hazards. He explained that they designed the course
to make it as safe as possible. He noted that holes range from 214 feet to 400 feet.
Mr. Troup indicated that they are very excited about disc golf and pointed out that it has
really caught on quite heavily at the high school. He stated that he has been playing disc
golf since the 9th grade and noted that you can go to any of the disc golf courses in the
area and there will always be groups playing as well as groups waiting to play. Mr.
Troup commented that most of the cities in the area have disc golf with the exception of
Edina.
Mr. Keprios noted that these young men did a lot more than just put lines and dots on an
aerial map. Mr. Troup responded that they spent approximately three hours every day on
the project. The first week they walked around the course with their discs to basically
look at the area they had to work with. After that the three of them talked amongst
themselves as to where they thought the holes should go. Therefore, the majority of their
time was spent walking around the area to find the best possible way to fit in nine holes
with the land they had. Mr. Freeman stated that they all had different opinions as to
where they thought the holes should be placed. It was sometimes a struggle for everyone
to see the other person’s point of view. They also noted that they did a lot of research on
the Internet looking for prices of cages, signs, etc. They noted that overall it was an
amazing project.
Ms. Wexler asked what kind of maintenance would be required to which Mr. Freeman
responded it just needs to be mowed regularly which is already being done. He noted
that the other maintenance would be to install the cages and tee boxes. He explained that
there are a couple of different kinds of cages. There are removable cages and permanent
cages. Once that is done, there is not too much upkeep needed. Mr. Freeman pointed out
that some courses have had trouble with littering therefore their plan shows designated
areas for garbage cans to be placed because it is a concern.
Ms. Presthus asked if there are rules, and established par per hole, and scorecards and
starters. Mr. Troup replied there are no starters and most of the courses he has played on
don’t have scorecards. He noted that some people keep score while others don’t, it’s
really more to each their own. Ms. Presthus asked if everyone starts at hole number one
or can you start at any hole. It was noted that typically you start at hole number one.
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Mr. Klus noted that there used to be a disc golf course over at Braemar in the 1970s and
asked if that area was looked at. Mr. Keprios replied that the area over at Braemar would
be used as a police/fire training facility that is currently under construction. He noted that
he’s not really sure we want to use that space for active play. It was pointed out the old
Braemar disc golf course was the fourth course in the history of disc golf.
Mr. Finsness asked how far the average person could throw a disc to which Mr. Troup
replied approximately 200 feet. He noted that he started out at 50 feet but has played for
a long time and now can throw it 300 feet.
Mr. Keprios introduced Tim Gill who is an Edina Resident who won the world disc golf
championship in 1995 and is here to help answer questions and give us some insight. Mr.
Fredlund asked if the cages are galvanized to which Mr. Gill responded they are all
galvanized and pretty much vandal resistant.
Mr. Keprios asked how many of the disc golf courses that they visited charged a fee. Mr.
Troup replied that the courses that are in Hennepin County parks people do have to pay
for parking, however, he noted that he has never been to a park that charges to play at a
9-hole course. Mr. Gill explained that some courses have a volunteer drop box where a
hole is put in the ground with a lock box and people can pay as they play. He indicated
that the drop box has become very popular at the major courses around the country.
Mr. Keprios commented that he attended the Connecting With Kids Positional Leaders
meeting today which consisted of the Superintendent of Schools, the Mayor, the City
Manager, several business leaders and community CEOs. They met to discuss how to try
and create more assets in the lives of the kids in the city. He noted that Ken Dragseth
gave an update on the disc golf course project and really applauded these young men for
the wonderful job they did on their presentation at the High School. Mr. Troup noted that
they would like to thank Ms. Tilsner and Mr. Keprios for their support.
Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Gill to give us some background on himself as well as how he
might be able to help us with this project. Mr. Gill noted that he graduated from Edina
High School in 1994 and played hockey all of his life. He noted that when he was out of
high school he needed something to do to take care of his competitive juices and he fell
into the sport of disc golf. He indicated that he now travels the country playing in major
tournaments and is currently ranked 14th in the world. He pointed out that when he first
started playing 8 years ago there were 25 courses in Minnesota and now there are 55. He
commented that he helps design and install courses as well as goes around informing and
teaching people the game of disc golf. He indicated that he has done disc golf demos at
six different high schools this spring alone. He noted that there are over 7,000 courses
nationwide and added that the sport is growing faster than any other sport in the world
today. Mr. Gill indicated that it’s free to play; the only cost is the disc which costs
anywhere from $7.00 to $15.00 and will last all summer and it allows the kids to utilize
the park, get exercise and be with their friends.
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Mr. Keprios introduced Paul Buck and explained that Mr. Buck approached him quite
some time ago regarding building a disc golf course at Rosland Park. He noted that Mr.
Buck would like to propose that he help build the course as an Eagle Scout project. Mr.
Keprios noted that if this is approved it would be fabulous to make it an Eagle Scout
project.
Mr. Gill commented that he went and looked at the layout of Rosland Park today and the
guys did a wonderful job laying it out for first time course designers. He noted that he
expressed that safety is the number one concern because there have been courses that
have been pulled out of ground because they were poorly designed and not safe.
Mr. Keprios indicated that as he mentioned in his staff report he would like to see the
Park Board move to approve this in concept. However, we do not have the funding in
place at this time to get it started but perhaps we can find some other way. Mr. White
asked about advertising to which Mr. Gill commented that some tee signs do have
advertisements on them.
Mr. Keprios asked if all of the holes are considered to be Par 3 holes to which Mr. Gill
replied yes. He explained that the larger championship style courses lean more towards
the par 4 and par 5 because the sport is evolving and the discs are evolving. He noted
that the discs are going longer and faster and a lot more athletes are getting involved.
Mr. White asked if the PDGA (Professional Disc Golf Association) needs to view a
course to make sure it complies with the PDGA rules. Mr. Gill responded not really but
noted that the manufacturers of the baskets make them according to PDGA guidelines
and they will not just sell them to anyone.
Mr. Keprios asked if this nine-hole course would be at all inviting for tournament play or
is it strictly a recreational course. Mr. Gill responded that this is a smaller course for the
Minnesota Frisbee Association (a statewide club) to which they may host a tournament
there but it wouldn’t be big enough for a national tour stop.
Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Gill if he would recommend keeping the baskets in the same place
all of the time to which Mr. Gill replied yes, he thinks that would be best. Ms. Wexler
asked how long does it take to play nine holes to which Mr. Freeman responded
approximately 40 minutes to an hour for the average person.
Linda Presthus MOVED THAT THE PARK BOARD GO AHEAD WITH THE
CONCEPT PROVIDING THAT WE FIND FUNDING FOR IT BUT TO APPROVE
THE CONCEPT.
Ardis Wexler SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
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Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Buck if they could use volunteer help from people who are not
Eagle Scouts to which he replied yes. Mr. Troup indicated that he knows 10 to 15 people
that would volunteer their time to help out.
Mr. Klus indicated that he thinks this would be a good project for the Rotary Club and
asked Mr. Keprios to contact him regarding this issue. He noted that he thinks the Rotary
Club would strongly consider this.
IV. UPDATES
A. Aquatic Center – Ms. Presthus commented that she would like to commend Mr.
MacHolda, he has done a great job with the Aquatic Center and it looks fabulous. Mr.
Keprios indicated that he is incredibly proud of Mr. MacHolda. He noted that he takes a
lot of his personal time to work at the pool and we owe a lot of gratitude to him for that.
B. Fox Meadow Park Proposal - Mr. Keprios indicated that the Park Board’s
recommendation to the City Council was approved unanimously. He noted that he would
also like to thank Mr. Damman for attending the City Council meeting when it was
proposed. Therefore, we are going to move forward with the park development. Mr.
Keprios indicated that he has hired Brauer & Associates to start the construction plans,
however, ground will not be broken until the neighborhood has completed their fund-
raising efforts.
C. Skate Park – Mr. Keprios stated that they have been invited by Best Buy to give them
a presentation at their national headquarters in Eden Prairie in two weeks. He noted that
all parties will be there and they’ve sent them a proposal requesting $105,000, which
would complete the master plan. He indicated that naming rights are up for stakes.
Mr. Johnson asked if the skate park is being wired for sound to which Mr. Keprios
replied that Best Buy might be able to assist us with that amenity. Mr. White asked if we
need $105,000 to which it was noted yes.
Mr. Keprios indicated that Mr. MacHolda has successfully secured a $20,000 donation
from Pepsi, which is fabulous.
D. Construction Projects – Mr. Keprios stated that currently they are putting in safety
surfaces at 11 different playground sites. He noted that they have also started the Heights
Park playground replacement project.
Mr. Keprios indicated that the grading of the Lewis Park soccer fields will be completed
on July 1st and the contractor will complete the grass seed planting and do the final grade
the first week of August. Hopefully there will be green grass ready to be mowed in
September.
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Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the Braemar Golf Course Clubhouse is now
complete and it looks fabulous. He also noted that they are finishing up with the fire
protection system project at Braemar Arena.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that with the Fourth of July coming up we are installing a larger
capacity electrical service to the showmobile to accommodate an improved sound system
provided by a local professional sound contractor, Edina Event and Sound Company. He
noted that the fireworks are again being done by Remote Effect Systems, which is the
same company that has done it for the past decade.
Mr. MacHolda stated that the cooperative they have with Our Lady of Grace (OLG) starts
today. He explained that last fall OLG renovated their athletic space and he has been
working with Dick Ward to have a cooperative with OLG. He noted that during the
summer season, once the kids are out of school, the city would cut, stripe, net and utilize
the field as a game field only for the soccer program. He indicated that the games that
were scheduled at Pamela Senior have been moved to OLG and the Pamela Senior field
will be used as a practice facility. Mr. MacHolda noted that the Edina Soccer Club is
very excited about this and that they will be paying the City of Edina for the maintenance
of it. He noted it’s a very nice cooperative.
V. August Park Board Meeting
Mr. White indicated that the August Park Board meeting would be held at Centennial
Lakes and asked how many people would be interested in playing putt putt golf like we
have done in the past. Mr. Keprios asked if anyone would be interested in having dinner
first at 5:30 and then playing putt putt golf. It was decided that enough members were
interested to have dinner and golf before the Park Board meeting.
VI. OTHER
A. Summer Intern - Mr. Keprios introduced Melissa Jutz who is this year’s summer
intern and will be working with the park and recreation for 12 weeks. He noted that she
would be working on a variety of activities throughout her internship.
B. Allyson Grande – Mr. Keprios indicated that using youth as resources is wonderful as
we just saw with the gentlemen and their disc golf project. He noted that he would also
like to mention that Allyson Grande is another great example of using youth as a great
community resource. Mr. Klus added that Allyson Grande was also on the state
champion lacrosse team for women in high school.
C. Lacrosse – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that Megan Grande has been
working hard to create Edina’s first Lacrosse Association. He noted that he plans to
attend an organizational meeting on Thursday night next week to see how we can assist
them in their efforts to create an organization and facilitate their program with
programmed and maintained field space.
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D. Appreciation Letter - Ms. Wexler asked if it would be appropriate to suggest that a
letter of gratitude or appreciation be sent to the gentlemen for their wonderful
presentation on the disc golf course. Mr. Keprios noted that he would be happy to draft a
letter and have Mr. White sign it.
E. Lake Harvey - Ms. Presthus indicated that she was approached by a few Lake Harvey
homeowners who would like to see the north side area grass cut as well as put in a few
benches. They would be interested in knowing what they need to do to try to get this
done. Mr. Keprios responded that this is not a new issue. In fact, the issue is several
years old. It is a huge issue with the neighborhood. Some people want it cut while the
majority do not want it cut. He stated that they have done surveys and have been around
and around with this. Mr. Keprios indicated that the city prefers not to cut the grass. Mr.
White asked if someone went in and cut the grass would that be a violation of city
ordinance to which Mr. Keprios replied not necessarily. They would need approval from
the Park Director.
F. Hornets Varsity Football - Ms. Presthus informed the Park Board that before the first
varsity football game she is helping to put together a big re-opening of the football
stadium. She indicated that the Outback Steakhouse is going to come in and do a pre-
game tailgate. This is a fundraiser for the football team and the boosters and will cost
$5.00 per ticket. She noted that she could use whatever help the city can give her. Mr.
Keprios asked how could they help to which Ms. Presthus replied they could use help
with advertising. Mr. Keprios noted that he would work on this with Ms. Presthus. Ms.
Wexler suggested sending out information with the water bills or the About Town
magazine so that every household in the community receives it. It was also suggested to
put something in the Sun Current.
G. Lake Cornelia Pathway – Ms. Sitek indicated that two mothers have complained to
her about their kids not being able to ride their bikes on the path around Lake Cornelia.
Mr. Keprios replied that he has received calls on this issue and he tells them that if they
have a 4, 5, 6 or 7 year-old that’s on a bike no one is going to bother them and he has
asked the Police to enforce it that way. Mr. Keprios stated that there is a long history
behind this and it really is a safety issue. We used to have a five-mile per hour speed
limit for cyclists and people were still going dangerously above the speed limit.
Therefore, because of the liability they decided no bikes are allowed. However, the small
kids really do not create a safety hazard.
H. Locked Restrooms – Ms. Sitek stated that she has received a lot of calls, mainly from
one person, asking why the restrooms at the parks are not opened. Mr. Keprios explained
that as of today they are all open. He noted that they do not have the staff to open the
restrooms that are not on the keyless entry system. We need to wait for our summer staff
to begin working before we can regularly open and close the restroom facilities. They
have tried using volunteers this year but found that that does not work.
I. Vandalism - Mr. Klus asked if vandalism has been bad this year to which Mr. Keprios
replied it has been terrible. He indicated there has been a lot of gang tagging. Mr.
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Keprios informed the Park Board that he was concerned about a pipe bomb left at
Highlands Park right next to the building. Mr. Klus commented that he knows it’s a big
hangout for the high school kids. Mr. Keprios noted that they are not sure who is doing
this but they have been writing some pretty nasty stuff on the walls. Mr. Keprios stated
that they were fortunate in that their maintenance man identified it as something he
shouldn’t touch and called the Police.
Mr. Keprios noted that there has also been a lot of vandalism at Pamela Park this year to
the point where we have had to change all of the key cores in the building. Vandals
broke into a lock box on two separate occasions and entered the building to do vandalism.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Jeff Johnson MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 8:35 P.M. Dave Fredlund
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.
After the Park Board meeting the board members stayed to watch the “Totally Talents
and Tunes Dimension Report” Video.