HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-08-12 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:00 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
AUGUST 12, 2003
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mike Damman, Karla Sitek, Ardis Wexler, George Klus,
Jeff Johnson, Floyd Grabiel, Linda Presthus, Allyson
Grande, Mike Weiss
MEMBERS ABSENT: David Fredlund, Andy Finsness
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton,
OTHERS PRESENT: Aaron Isaacs, Alan Palmer, Tom Whitlock, Boe Carlson
____________________________
I. PARK & RIDE PROPOSAL FOR GARDEN PARK
Mr. Klus noted that the Metro Transit and the City Council are proposing to lease
Garden Park’s parking lot to serve as a Park & Ride site for a period of ten years.
Mr. Keprios explained that also included in your packet along with the staff report
everyone should have a copy of the concept plan provided by Metro Transit
which shows how it will look in concept. You will notice that the drive through
for the bus area really wouldn’t consume any existing parking stalls, which
currently is at 150. There appears to be strong support of the concept by the City
Council to help find a park & ride location in this quadrant of Edina. The City
Council has asked the Park Board to take a close look at this and discuss whether
this would be compatible with park activities. The plan does conflict with
scheduled athletic events during the summer months. We know from our
observations that during the last two weeks of May through about the third week
in July we have baseball, softball, and soccer all going on at the same times in the
evening. Mr. Keprios also stated that we typically start their scheduled games at
5:30 pm. He noted that he has also copied in the packet Metro Transit’s estimated
car counts. Mr. Keprios introduced Mr. Aaron Isaacs from Metro Transit who
was in the audience.
Mr. Keprios noted that estimated car counts show that we obviously can’t have
two multi-purpose athletic fields scheduled at 5:30 pm as well as baseball and
softball and still accommodate the needed parking stalls for a Park & Ride. One
way to accommodate a Park & Ride is to start the scheduled soccer games at 6:00
p.m., which would require athletic field lighting for the two multi-purpose athletic
fields. Soccer games would end at 9:00 p.m. as opposed to 8:30 p.m. One of the
benefits to adding athletic field lighting is that it would then allow us to utilize
those two fields in the fall. With athletic field lighting he noted that we can
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accommodate a Park & Ride assuming that their car count numbers are accurate
and won’t ever be worse than what is predicted. He noted that he also copied the
joint powers agreement between the Metro Council and City of Edina, which
shows all of the detail in the agreement.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he plans to attend the Edina Soccer Association board
meeting on Monday, August 18, to explain the Park & Ride proposal and ask for
their input. The proposal requires the Edina Soccer Association to move their 9-
10 year old games at Garden Park to a 6:00 p.m. start time, as opposed to a 5:30
p.m. start time.
Mr. Keprios noted that staff is asking that the Park Board recommend that the
City Council accept the Joint Powers Agreement proposal as it stands, with the
understanding that the City of Edina not get stuck with any of the bill for field
lighting or any charges needed to bring power to the fields. He noted that he
would also like the Park Board’s input on having a public meeting to invite the
neighborhood in to share with them the concept and what field lighting would do
and how it would affect their homes. Mr. Keprios stated that he has asked Craig
Gallop from Musco Lighting Company to attend the public information meeting
to explain the current athletic field lighting technology that is available and how it
minimizes spill and glare. He noted that he would also ask Mr. Isaacs from Metro
Transit to attend and answer questions about the Park & Ride and Sector 5 plan.
He noted that he has the City Council Chambers reserved on August 25th at 7:00
pm to conduct that public meeting.
Mr. Isaacs indicated that to put it in context for you, the Sector 5 Transit study
covers all of South Minneapolis, Edina, Richfield and Bloomington. The problem
that they have found in Richfield, Bloomington and Edina is that these suburbs of
the Twin Cities really don’t have any good Park & Ride lots. Many bus riders are
walking to the bus stop and most of the residents of Edina west of Highway 100
don’t have a bus within walking distance. As a result, they are only getting about
half to a third of the percentage of downtown Minneapolis commuters, which is
their primary market. Mr. Isaac commented that one of the things they wanted to
do with this is to go and get Park & Rides so they can anchor the services,
however, the problem of course in a built up community like Edina is there is no
vacant land to put such a thing. He noted that they wanted to be as close as
possible to the interchange here of 50th/Vernon and Highway 100. He noted that
they went to Our Lady of Grace Church and they weren’t interested so they had to
look elsewhere and Garden Park was by far the best site. Mr. Isaac stated that
what that will do is that will serve riders coming through two different bus routes,
which are neighborhoods along Londonderry and Vernon Avenue, and the other
route covers 78th Street, Cahill Road, Valley View Road, Tracy, and Benton. Mr.
Isaacs noted that he believes that the Park & Ride at Garden Park will be by only
Edina residents. The Bloomington bus riders are going to have their Park & Ride
down by the ski jump at Hyland, Richfield bus riders are going to have their Park
& Ride over by Best Buy, and the Eden Prairie bus riders already have a huge
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Park & Ride in Eden Prairie. The Hopkins people have a Park & Ride so they
think geographically this is something for Edina residents and what it will do is it
will put a lot more people on the bus, take their cars off the Highway and it will
make the bus routes, and especially the express routes, much more viable.
Mr. Isaacs commented that they thought the best approach was to try to create
some kind of a win, win situation where they can get the use of an existing lot and
improve it. When Mr. Keprios mentioned to us the need for athletic field lighting
to make this work, we got authority for $75,000 for athletic field lighting. When
Mr. Keprios secured an estimate from Musco Lighting, the total costs came in
higher than what we have authority for right now, however, we are not very far
apart and Mr. Isaacs thinks that is resolvable. Mr. Isaacs stated that, as a matter of
fact, this project was just placed on MNDot's list of bonded projects in the
bonding bill so they already have a source of funds set up for it.
Mr. Isaacs stated that given that they think it’s an opportunity to do something
with the transit. Mr. Keprios indicated that athletic field lighting at Garden Park
would allow us to rotate use and rest other lighted athletic fields from year to
year, which would be a benefit.
Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Isaacs if it is fair to say that this Park & Ride isn’t really
looked upon as the permanent solution for this area. Mr. Isaacs replied that’s
correct. Mr. Isaacs noted that they found out from Edina city staff that the ideal
long-term solution would be to build multi-use development where the school bus
garage is located and that could serve as a permanent Park & Ride location. Mr.
Keprios commented that if the Park & Ride relocates before the 10-year lease is
up, we still get to keep the lights and improvements without compensation to
Metro Transit.
Ms. Presthus asked how accurate do you think these totals are for projected cars
and do you see this increasing so quickly and catching on that all of a sudden this
lot is going to be too small and something else is going to have to be done. Mr.
Isaacs commented that he thinks certainly the percentage per bus is a little bit of a
guess. He noted that he estimated the buses in the middle of rush hour to be
somewhat heavier than the buses at the end of the rush hour. Mr. Isaacs replied
that it usually takes a couple of years for a lot to fill up and so he would be very,
very surprised if after the first year they are operational that suddenly the lot is
full. He noted that he doesn’t think that is going to happen. He indicated that he
thinks that we will have in a couple of years it is possible that it could fill up all
the way, although it’s kind of hard to judge these things. They think that there are
at least these many potential riders, however they have two things going; they
think there is a potential market in Edina but on that same token Edina is a higher
income community and as income goes up, their penetration of bus riders isn’t
quite as great. It’s always kind of a guess so he can’t say that it won’t over fill at
some point but they think they are pretty close in their estimates, but they really
think it would take a couple years to get there.
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Ms. Presthus asked have you done any community surveys to find out potential
ridership if the Park & Ride was there. Mr. Isaacs explained that the method that
they use, they found that just surveying individuals always yields an over-
optimistic result. Everyone says yes, I’ll do that and then they don’t. The method
they use is they take census data, which tells them how many people are working
in downtown Minneapolis and then take a percentage that they figure might get
on the bus, which they have found it’s usually about half or so that will go and
have found that to be pretty accurate. That is the method they have used here.
Ms. Presthus indicated that a lot of the Park & Rides have other amenities now
and asked if there any plan to do other things. Mr. Isaacs responded that they are
not planning that here just because it’s much too small, they don’t own the
property, and it’s not zoned for that. That’s something that you really only do
when you have a very large quantity of riders, which Eden Prairie has over 1,000
spaces, plus they have their own separate transit system with an office building
for their management staff.
Mr. Klus asked if this would replace some of those express buses that are now
starting at the Amoco at Vernon by Jerry’s. Mr. Isaacs responded that it doesn’t
replace those but there won’t be quite as many there. There are several things that
are happening. There are currently two routes that go out there. There is the
Metro Transit Bus Route #146 which is the express that goes across 50th in
Minneapolis, which will continue to come out but instead of ending there it will
make a large loop down through Wooddale and Valley View Road. That area
will pick up more Edina residents who currently don’t have service.
Mr. Isaacs stated that overall there will be a modest reduction in the number of
buses out there during the primary rush hour.
Mr. Klus commented that the Mayor wrote in his letter that he was concerned
about the loss of a bus to the U of M for kids who live in this area and asked if
there has been any more discussion about that. Mr. Isaacs explained that they
went through a whole process where they put the plan out and got a lot of
comments back and as a result changed the plan. They also wound up getting
more money back from the state legislature than was expected and, as a result,
instead of cutting the service as planned, it is now going to stay the same as it
was.
Mr. Weiss asked what we do as a Park Board if we are going to get two more
lighted fields. Mr. Weiss commented that the drainage at Garden Park is terrible
and with lighted fields you are just going to get more use and are we prepared to
do some work on the fields. He stated that he is all in favor of having two more
lighted athletic fields but concerned about the fields getting used too much and
the additional maintenance needed to maintain the fields.
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Mr. Keprios replied that his view is that the plan is not to accommodate more play
but rather an opportunity to rest some other lighted fields so that we don’t have to
use Van Valkenburg Park fields, Courtney Fields, Pamela Park and Braemar Park
lighted fields every fall for football. He noted that in fact he plans to get tough on
eliminating second season sports just for that reason.
Ms. Presthus asked is Garden Park in the our five year plan to which Mr. Keprios
replied no, not for field renovations.
Ms. Presthus MOVED TO PROPOSE THAT WE RECOMMEND THAT THE
CITY COUNCIL APPROVE METRO TRANSIT’S PARK & RIDE PROPOSAL
FOR GARDEN PARK, WHICH INCLUDES FUNDING FOR PURCHASE
AND INSTALLATION OF ATHLETIC FIELD LIGHTING FOR THE TWO
MULTI-PURPOSE ATHLETIC FIELDS. Ardis Wexler SECONDED THE
MOTION.
Ms. Presthus state that she feels that we should give our positive support for this
proposal because of the lighted fields and the advantages that will give to our
sports programs. Mr. Klus noted that the motion would be to recommend that the
City Council accept the Park & Ride proposal, which includes improvements to
the Garden Park parking lot as well as providing athletic field lighting.
Ms. Presthus commented that she would like to point out that one of the benefits
could be for the fall sports here particularly football that needs some later time
too. Ms. Presthus asked who would pay the electric bill to operate the lights. Mr.
Keprios responded that the City of Edina would pay the electric bill, however,
Metro Transit would be expected to pay for all expenses associated with the
athletic field lighting project.
Mr. Klus commented that on further clarification that on the 25th there will be a
neighborhood meeting that’s open to the public, which Mr. Keprios replied yes he
plans to host an open house informational meeting to present and explain the
proposal. He also intends on attending the Soccer Association board meeting to
ask for their input. The City Council will have to weigh all of the
recommendations and input and then ultimately make the decision. Ms. Wexler
asked how are you notifying the neighborhood to which Mr. Keprios replied that
he would mail notices to residents of the Garden Park neighborhood inviting them
to this informational meeting. Mr. Weiss commented that he thinks they should
include the Edina Football Association as well. Mr. Keprios noted that he has not
asked them for their input. Mr. Weiss noted he asks that because he thinks that 4th
grade practices are still at Garden for the fall, to which Mr. MacHolda replied that
they are not schedule there and they have not been for some time. Mr. Klus asked
if football is using that field at all to which Mr. MacHolda replied they are not,
and the 4th graders are actually practicing at Braemar Arena this year.
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Mr. Klus asked what is the timing on this. Mr. Isaacs replied that assuming that
this is approved here they would do the construction first thing in the spring. He
noted that he talked with Mr. Keprios about trying to do construction prior to the
spring athletic season.
Mr. Klus commented that for our information we should know that the parking lot
at Garden Park is used every day by school district buses as a staging area in the
morning. He stated that he is not sure it would impact the Park & Ride; however,
he usually can see anywhere from 10 to 12 buses over there in the morning
parking there during the school year.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
II. FIRST TIER REGIONAL TRAIL – PUBLIC INPUT MEETING
Mr. Keprios indicated that what he is really asking of the Park Board tonight is
whether or not they should host a special open house on Monday, September 22nd
or invite the neighborhoods that need to be informed to the next Park Board
meeting on September 9th. He stated that he also plans to place an article in the
Sun Newspaper that will explain the trail. Mr. Keprios explained that Stanley
Consultants, Inc. and Daman Farber Architects are the consultants hired by Three
Rivers Park District to help establish exactly where the trail should be placed.
However, the next step is to receive the public’s input. He noted that Boe
Carlson, Alan Palmer and Tom Whitcock are here to again summarize the trail
location and explain the process.
Boe Carlson, Trails Coordinator for the Three Rivers Park District, indicated that
he would like to give a brief synopsis of where they have been with this project
and where they are hoping to go within the next six to eight months. Mr. Carlson
explained that in 1998 Hennepin Parks developed the first tier trails, greenways
and park master plan. He noted that the basis of that plan was that the Park
District, as a regional agency for the metro area, has a lot of park reserves and
regional parks that are in the outlying areas where they have larger tracks of land.
He stated that they got a sense specifically from the first tier suburbs that they
would like to see more for their tax dollars and would like to see some facilities in
their community so that they can take advantage of the regional system as well.
He explained at that time they developed what was called the First Tier master
plan concept, which consisted of various corridors through the various cities.
Also included in the plan was a proposal for a water trail along Minnehaha Creek.
Mr. Carlson indicated that their name has changed from Hennepin Parks to Three
Rivers Park District and added that they function through the Metropolitan
Council and are a regional implementing agency and therefore receive regional
dollars. He stated that they have to follow a process through the Metropolitan
Council when they are looking at developing new park facilities. It is then
adopted into what is called a metro parks policy plan and open space policy plan.
He noted that in their last cycle they were trying to get the adoption of the original
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First Tier master plan, which was developed in 1998 and was adopted by a lot of
cities through a two-year process involving numerous meetings. He stated that
they were trying to get that adopted into the metro policy plan and by the end of
2002 four of the corridors were actually adopted of which three of them were in
the northern region and one in the southern region. The southern region corridor
runs through Richfield, Edina and a small portion of Hopkins.
Mr. Carlson explained that once the trails are adopted into a policy plan they have
to go through a master plan phase of individual corridor development. During
this part of the process they look at all of the details, alignments and potential
constraints as well as they look at larger problems they may encounter in bringing
in a trail through a certain area. Mr. Carlson indicated that they are looking at a
lot of existing trails and are hoping to be able to just make some upgrades. He
noted that they are going to have some major constraints, which are going to be
some highway and freeway crossings, which are going to continue to be analyzed.
Mr. Carlson pointed out that they feel that this is a very solid corridor and a very
unique corridor and something that has some real potential not only for the
citizens of Edina but for the whole region in the metro area.
Mr. Carlson indicated that they have hired Stanley Consultants to help them in the
development of the master plan in process and go through some of the steps that
they have to follow for the Metro Council. He noted that it’s a 12-step process
where they will need to look at such things as analyzing the natural resources,
securing the right-of-way, and identifying parcels that they need to acquire, and
establishing signage systems.
Mr. Carlson stated that they are now trying to get the word out of what they are
planning to do as well as receive some public input. He explained that potentially
a trail could be in someone’s neighborhood or nearby their home and therefore
want to make sure they receive their feedback and incorporate that feedback into
the master plan. Mr. Carlson pointed out that once the master plan is complete,
they have to present it to the Metro Council for site adoption approval. Mr.
Carlson explained that what that ultimately means for the City of Edina and for
the Park District in implementing this trail is that they can bring a lot of regional
dollars into the City of Edina to start constructing and building these trails. They
can start looking at these major constraints because there are going to be major
dollars and major pieces of infrastructure that the City doesn’t have the ability to
build and that the Park District doesn’t have the ability to build. However, with
their cooperative effort and regional dollars they can start to get these things
happening.
Alan Palmer, who is with Stanley Consultants, talked about some of the alignment
issues, some of the potential constraints as well as some of the potential
opportunities that they have. He noted that they want to receive feedback on
identified constraint areas and other areas that need to be called out in the process.
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Tom Whitlock, a Landscape Architect with Damon Farber Associates, gave a
presentation to the Park Board on the current alignment of the trail. Mr. Carlson
indicated that what they are trying to develop here is not the final design plan. He
explained that what their goal is with this process is to develop an alignment so
that through the years, when the opportunity presents itself, they can take an
existing sidewalk and widen it or when a bridge gets replaced they can add a trail
to it. This may take 2 or 20 years.
Mr. Klus asked if a trail is going down a residential street do you use the street or
do you want a path. Mr. Carlson explained that they want a separation between
the streets and the paths, which may ultimately take a while to get what they are
asking for. Mr. Klus asked how do you propose to do that in neighborhoods
where the houses and streets are already developed. Do you hope to purchase the
property? Mr. Carlson explained that they have done a few things in other cities
where they have had those scenarios. He noted that often times if they have some
available right-of-way, they can bring in a trail right up to the residential area
where there will be signage that leads you to a point where you may need to
utilize the streets for three blocks. He stated that they would ultimately look at
upgrading that situation when they have the opportunity. However, on an interim
basis it gets riders through that area and gives them the opportunity to get
through. However, the hard part for City Councils and advisory boards is when
they have to take out part of someone’s yard and put in a trail. However, the
attitudes of trails have changed a lot over the years for the better. Mr. Carlson
noted that they have had some successful means but certainly it takes a long time
and it takes a long-term commitment by a community and hopefully by the Park
District to try to implement some of those things.
Mr. Grabiel asked if you come in and build a trail in someone’s front yard do you
compensate them for that. Mr. Carlson replied that if they were not within the
right-of-way of a street then they would compensate them.
Ms. Presthus asked about crossing over France Avenue because there currently is
no over or under bridge area. Mr. Carlson replied that is going to be a difficult
situation and one that they will continue to look at and analyze those constraints.
Mr. Palmer commented that at least it’s a controlled intersection where they can
incorporate a pedestrian element to it where they can increase the amount of time
the light allows for pedestrians to cross.
Mr. Damman asked if the trails are used all year or just used in the warmer
months. Mr. Carlson responded that they have found that the larger trails are
being used year round, especially with the mild winters they have had. Also, a
tremendous amount of people are requesting winter walking so trails are really
becoming a year round activity. Mr. Damman asked who maintains the trails to
which Mr. Carlson replied they do not maintain any of their trails in the winter.
He explained that they have a winter use permit which a city can pull if they have
certain portions or the entire corridor that they would like to see plowed. Mr.
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Keprios indicated that the agreement would allow the City of Edina the option to
maintain the trail through Edina during the winter months at our own expense.
Mr. Grabiel commented that he has a real problem with telling someone they are
going to take out 10 feet of their front yard for a trail because it wasn’t really their
front yard. He noted that maybe the right-of-way goes there but he doesn’t think
that’s right unless people are compensated for it. Mr. Klus indicated that he
doesn’t see the people in the City of Edina letting those situations happen without
a fight. Mr. Keprios added that those issues would be the biggest challenge. Mr.
Keprios indicated that he thinks what’s being asked of us tonight is to again
reaffirm the master plan in concept, not that we are going to conquer all of those
problems tonight, so we can go on to the public process. Mr. Carlson explained
when they master plan a trail corridor like this they want to be able to identify a
potential alignment. He noted that they are not yet in the detail design plan phase.
Mr. Klus commented that what they are looking for tonight from the Park Board
is to approve this concept of a regional trail through Edina. It is not a final plan
but is a concept that we are asking to be passed on. Mr. Keprios indicated that he
would also recommend that they hold a separate open house on September 22nd
for a public input meeting. He noted that they would invite the public in to hear
the presentation and give their views of the specifics of the trail, which they
would then take back to the drawing board. Mr. Klus asked who is putting on the
public forum to which Mr. Keprios replied he would host it along with the
gentlemen who are here tonight. He indicated they would give a presentation and
have someone take the minutes to make sure that all of the input gets passed on to
the Park Board and City Council. He noted that the three men here tonight would
take input and adjust the plan accordingly.
Ardis Wexler MOVED THAT THE PARK BOARD APPROVES THE
CONCEPT OF THE 1ST TIER REGIONAL TRAIL THROUGH EDINA AND
SUPPORTS THE PUBLIC FORUM, WHICH WOULD BE HELD ON
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 22nd.
Mike Damman SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. APPROVAL OF THE TUESDAY, JUNE 10, 2003 PARK BOARD
MINUTES
Floyd Grabiel MOVED TO APPROVE THE JUNE 10, 2003 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Karla Sitek SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
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IV. RENAME SECTION OF BRAEMAR BOULEVARD
Mr. Klus indicated that, as Mr. Keprios’ Staff Report states, the city would like to
rename a section of Braemar Boulevard in honor of Hilary Homeyer Lunke, who
recently won the Women’s PGA Golf Tournament. He stated that the city is
asking us to recommend that the section of Braemar Boulevard between Gleason
Road and Valley View Road be named Hilary Lane in honor of the former Edina
resident Hillary Homeyer Lunke.
Mr. Keprios commented that for those who didn’t know, Park Board member
Mike Damman is Hilary’s proud Godparent. Mr. Klus indicated that he would
like to hear the feelings of this Board. Mr. Grabiel indicated that he appreciates
the sentiment behind this and he is sure she is a fine person. However, his
personal view is that it’s bad public policy to name any public property after
anybody until they’ve been dead for about ten years. Mr. Grabiel made reference
to Pete Rose Lane in Cincinnati, Kirby Puckett Way at the Metrodome, and stated
that he would not be surprised if there were a Kobe Bryant Lane someplace. He
noted that he thinks it’s not good public policy to name public property after
people who are still alive. Ms. Presthus commented that she disagrees with that
seeing as we have parks named after former Edina Mayors, we have Ikola Drive,
and we have other park property named after others that we’ve recognized who
are still alive. Ms. Presthus stated that this part of the road is the part that goes
directly through Braemar and is right smack dab in the middle of our golf course.
Ms. Presthus stated that it is an absolutely appropriate place for it because that
was Hilary’s home course where she played throughout her youth and it’s quite an
honor.
Mr. Damman commented that he agrees with Ms. Presthus because she absolutely
deserves it. Hilary is a fine representative of women and golf in Edina. He noted
that they have recognized other deserving people and he doesn’t know why they
should set a precedent now of not recognizing her outstanding accomplishment.
It is something to be proud of and it couldn’t happen to a nicer woman and she
deserves it.
Mr. Grabiel noted that he wants to make it clear that he’s not speaking against
Hilary, and if you want to put a plaque in the Braemar Golf Course clubhouse or
something like that he thinks it would be wonderful. As a matter of policy, he is
opposed to the idea of naming public property after people who are still alive.
Mr. Weiss asked how the name, Hilary Lane, was decided on. It was noted that
Hilary and her family were asked for their input and they prefer Hilary Lane. Mr.
Weiss noted that he is all in favor of it.
Ms. Sitek noted that she is all for it. Ms. Grande commented that she likes it.
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Mr. Johnson indicated that he respects Mr. Grabiel’s opinion but he thinks that we
have already set precedent by naming parks, golf courses, and streets after
Mayors, city staff, High School coaches, and other people who have won national
championships. Mr. Johnson stated that he thinks this goes along with our city’s
concept and philosophy.
Linda Presthus MOVED THAT THE PARK BOARD RECOMMEND TO THE
CITY COUNCIL THAT THE PORTION OF BRAEMAR BOULEVARD FROM
GLEASON ROAD TO VALLEY VIEW ROAD BE NAMED HILARY LANE.
Mike Damman SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED.
Floyd Grabiel – ABSTAINED
V. OTHER
A. Turf Management – Mr. Klus indicated that he has heard from a few residents
that the parks are turning more to clover than grass. He asked at what point does
the Park Department make a determination that it’s time to do some reseeding so
that the clover starts going away and we get more grass. Mr. Keprios noted that
they prefer to have grass. Mr. Klus asked if it is stated in the Turf Management
Plan that at some point a decision can be made that we need more grass than
clover. Mr. Keprios replied that there is nothing in writing that says they are
going to start reseeding where there’s an abundance of clover. He noted that what
the Turf Management Plan really addresses is an effort to reduce the amount of
herbicides that we use with the assumption that it’s a health risk. That was the
whole premise behind the Turf Management Plan. Mr. Keprios explained that the
City Council recently made it very clear that they want more herbicides applied to
the Class B areas as identified in the Turf Management Plan. Mr. Keprios asked
Mr. Klus to let him know if he has any specific areas in mind that he feels needs
more attention and we would be happy to take a look at it. Mr. Keprios
commented that it’s a very tough issue for staff because you can’t have it both
ways. We cannot eliminate weeds and reduce the amount of herbicide use at the
same time. He noted that they have tried different things in the past with not
much success. Mr. Keprios pointed out that they still do not spray within 100 feet
of any playground equipment area. The intent is to avoid exposing children to
herbicides because children have immature immune systems.
B. Donations to Parks/Edina Foundation – Mr. Klus informed the Park Board
members that if anyone asks if they can make a donation to a certain park, the
Edina Community Foundation would set up designated accounts. He indicated
that the donations are tax deductible.
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VI. UPDATES
A. Edinborough Park - Mr. Keprios indicated that the new play structure is
currently under construction and showed the Park Board the latest pictures. He
indicated that they are thinking about naming the play structure area “Adventure
Peak”. At this point, they are planning a grand opening at 6:00 pm on September
2nd prior to the City Council meeting. He added that this would also be the first
day that the play structure will be open to the public.
B. YMCA/Tri-City Skate Park – Mr. Keprios showed pictures of what the skate
park looks like as of today. Ms. Presthus asked if bikes could also be used at the
skate park to which Mr. Keprios replied yes. He noted that the skate park is
coming along well and that the grand opening will be held October 4th at noon.
He stated that they would be inviting all of the kids from all of the input groups
from the three cities as well as the donors.
Ms. Grande asked if they would be putting in restrooms to which Mr. Keprios
replied there would be portable restrooms placed at the facility. Also, the YMCA
is there and they will have their doors open to use the restrooms as well. Mr.
Keprios indicated that when dollars are available they are hoping to put in
permanent restroom facilities.
Mr. Klus indicated that he thought there was a concession stand there. Mr.
Keprios replied that there would be a very small concession stand, which will also
serve as the building to store equipment and supplies. It was asked what the fees
would be to which Mr. Keprios replied they are looking at $4.00 for residents of
Edina, Bloomington and Richfield and $8.00 for non-residents. Ms. Presthus
asked if the park would be fenced in to which Mr. Keprios replied yes, it would
have a 6-foot fence around the entire perimeter. Ms. Presthus asked if season
passes will be available to which it was noted yes. Mr. Keprios pointed out that
the YMCA, by agreement, has the ability to charge whatever they want to charge
as long as they don’t make money beyond their expenses.
Mr. Johnson asked about the insurance and liability with the skate park. Mr.
Keprios replied that the YMCA is assuming all liability and will cover the cities
as additional insured.
C. Normandale Park Playground Equipment/Sherwood Park Playground
Equipment – Mr. MacHolda indicated that Dave Koolmo of Koolmo Construction
was the low bid on both projects. He noted that Landscape Structures equipment
will be installed at Sherwood Park and their completion date is scheduled for
September 30th. He noted that once the new equipment arrives, city staff would
remove the existing equipment.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that Columbia Cascade is the equipment that is going to
be installed at Normandale Park and their completion date is scheduled for
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November 15th. He noted that he thinks both neighborhood groups are very
excited and they were a part of the process and is getting the plans they desired.
D. Fox Meadow Park Grand Opening - Mr. Klus commented that the Fox
Meadow Park Grand Opening was wonderful and he was very pleased to see all
of the people who showed up for the event. He indicated that Mr. Keprios did a
great job in recognizing Laura Nisi, the woman who was really the driving force
behind this project. Mr. Klus noted that Candace Amberg, the architect who
designed the master plan, was also there and did a great job. He noted that he
would like to see more neighbors get involved with their parks.
Mr. Keprios thanked all of the Park Board members who attended the grand
opening and indicated that one of the residents who wasn’t initially in favor of
this project became an anonymous donor for the grand opening. She donated
$250.00, which paid for the moonwalk and face painting for the kids. He noted
that it really was a wonderful event.
VII. PARK ASSIGNMENTS PRESENTATION – MIKE DAMMAN
Mr. Damman stated that he had the privilege of having four park assignments:
Tingdale, Birchcrest, Garden and Countryside. He indicated that he visited the
parks during the weekdays, evenings and weekends and noted that he met and
interviewed many people. Mr. Damman commented that he found people from
all over at the parks, and not just Edina residents. He indicated that he
approached people, introduced himself and explained to them what the Park
Board is trying to accomplish and asked for their input both negative and positive.
Mr. Damman referred to a handout that he put together that listed comments and
suggestions that he heard at each of the parks he attended.
Mr. Damman indicated that the first park he went to was Tingdale Park, which is
located at 59th and Tingdale and noted that it’s a very small park, .67 acres and
falls under the category of “mini-park”. The second park he went to was
Birchcrest Park, which is also a “mini-park” and is 1.6 acres. He noted that it is
located at 6016 Hansen Road. The third park he went to was Garden Park, which
is labeled as a “community playground” and is 19 acres. He noted that the last
park he visited was Countryside Park.
Referring to the comments in Mr. Damman’s handout, Mr. Klus stated that it
seems we are receiving a lot of requests and asked the Park Board what they think
should be done with them. Mr. Damman replied that he thinks they can probably
handle some of the smaller things such as making a water fountain more
accessible for smaller children. Ms. Wexler asked how expensive would it be to
install a water fountain to which it was noted approximately $800.00. Ms. Wexler
noted that would probably be one of the easier and more visible requests they can
accommodate and people will know that we are listening to what they are saying.
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Mr. Klus asked Mr. Damman what he thinks would happen if he went back to the
neighbors and said we would like to help fulfill your requests but it’s not in the
budget. Therefore, are you willing to give a donation to help do some of these
things to improve your park? Mr. Damman replied that he thinks most people
would say that the park is for everyone and question why should they be the ones
to pay for it. Mr. Klus asked how could they get residents to take a more active
ownership in their parks. Mr. Damman indicated that we are probably going to
have to come up with some kind of a plan that we could go to the people with and
make them feel like they are a necessary part of the park. Then we could tell
them that their contribution would help accomplish that plan. Mr. Klus asked Mr.
Damman if he thinks the people that he talked to have a great ownership in their
parks to which Mr. Damman replied he thinks that some do and some don’t.
Mr. Klus asked the Park Board if they think there should be a time during Park
Board meetings to periodically invite neighborhoods to come in and talk about
their park with the Park Board. Ms. Wexler indicated that she doesn’t think
anything that you do to involve the community in something like a park is bad.
She noted that whether you send it out in letterform, make an announcement in
the newspaper, or simply post it somewhere is good.
Mr. Johnson suggested placing signs at the park indicating that if you want to
contribute to the park call the Edina Community Foundation and it can be
earmarked for that particular park.
Mr. Klus indicated that he hopes Mr. Damman will come up with two or three
recommendations on the four parks that he thinks as a Park Board we should
discuss and recommend to Mr. Keprios to try to build into some type of a plan.
He noted that he hopes we will do something with these requests and suggestions.
Mr. Klus asked Mr. Damman if he thinks any of the people he talked to would
ever come to a Park Board meeting to discuss their park and ways to improve
their park to which Mr. Damman replied he thinks that some would. Mr. Keprios
commented that he thinks there is always a little bit of danger in that because
some of the neighbors will come back and ask why you haven’t done what
they’ve asked you to do. Mr. Keprios stated that if their goal is to get more
philanthropy to improve the park system, then maybe we should invite the Edina
Community Foundation to a Park Board meeting and brainstorm some ideas to
enhance donations to the park system on a larger scale. Mr. Keprios indicated
that what the Park Board is doing with their assignments is wonderful because
staff doesn’t have the time to go to each of the parks and learn about the little
details that are sometimes overlooked and people don’t always take the time to
share. Mr. Keprios commented that he thinks the exercise Mr. Damman went
through was fabulous and is interested in learning more details.
Ms. Presthus noted that maybe we should do some of the smaller items to let
residents know that we are at least doing something and are listening to them.
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She noted that she doesn’t think we need the Edina Community Foundation to put
garbage cans at the parks. Those are things she would like to just see happen.
Mr. Johnson asked Mr. Damman if he found anything broken with the equipment
to which Mr. Damman replied yes that he did look for that kind of thing and
passed that information on to Mr. Keprios.
Ms. Presthus stated that if the Park Board asks people to come in and talk about
their park you usually don’t hear them say that everything is perfect. It’s actually
inviting a wish list of things instead of using staff and Park Board’s expertise of
what’s best around the whole community.
VIII. FACILITIES STUDY COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION
Mr. Klus indicated that the Facilities Study Committee was given the charge to
make a recommendation to the Park Board to pass on to the City Council on
whether or not they feel there is a validated need for an indoor athletic field
facility and additional gymnasiums. Mr. Klus stated that he thinks they did a very
nice job of discussing this and he would really like to thank Mr. Damman, Mr.
Finsness and Ms. Sitek because they really gave this a lot of thought and
discussion.
Mr. Klus asked Mr. Johnson to comment on what’s possibly coming out in the
school district’s referendum within the next couple of weeks. Mr. Johnson
indicated that the School Board met last night to discuss the referendum. He
stated that one of the big items is the additional gym at Valley View. He noted
that there was talk about adding a fourth gymnasium but that is now on the
chopping block, however, it has not been completely taken off. Mr. Johnson
indicated that currently they are a little over budget and are therefore trying to
find some things to shave off. Mr. Klus asked what’s over budget to which Mr.
Johnson replied they want to ask for $87 million, however, they are now at $89
million so they need to get rid of a few things. Mr. Johnson stated that at South
View they are taking out the old gymnasiums and putting in new ones. He noted
that the High School is going to stay the same with one big gymnasium. Mr.
Johnson explained that they are still up in the air with the community center and
are obviously going to keep the existing Community Center gyms in place. Mr.
Johnson noted that he did present the Park Board’s view to the School Board in
that gymnasiums are a very important addition.
Mr. Klus shared with the Park Board a memo he received this afternoon from
Dick Ward, President of the Edina Basketball Association. The bottom line of
what the memo states is that they want to see some new gymnasiums and feel it’s
not an issue that’s going to go away. Mr. Klus noted that the EBA informed him
that they are using the school gyms to full capacity. There are only two days they
are not using the gymnasiums and those are Wednesday nights and Sundays. The
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EBA also stated that they feel the schools have been willing to open up all of the
gymnasiums to them, it’s just that they need more space.
Mr. Klus noted that the Facilities Study Committee feels that the city should not
be funding these new additional deficits. He indicated that they haven’t heard the
City Council say they are willing to assume any new deficits because they cannot
see how they are going to be able to pay for them.
Mr. Klus indicated that the subcommittee doesn’t feel this is the right time to
recommend to the City Council to go ahead and move on a building project,
especially with the upcoming school bond issue, and we do not want to cause that
any conflict. He explained the subcommittee thinks it’s something that they can
come back and look at after the November election. Mr. Klus stated that the
Facilities Study Committee recommends that there needs to be private funds
raised. He noted that they think this is something that should be revisited after
the first of the year.
Ms. Wexler commented that she is impressed by the work that was done by the
subcommittee and agrees they should not be looking at deficit. They are only
setting themselves up if there is no way of paying for it. Ms. Wexler indicated
that perhaps private funding is one of the ways to go because there have been a
number of people within the community who have been inclined to be very
generous with their funds. However, she doesn’t know that they would be so
generous if they asked them to make an outright contribution for a subsidy for
something that you are going to build. She noted that she would be supportive of
the subcommittee’s report.
Ms. Presthus indicated that the question is not whether or not there is a need
because there has always been a need. We are lacking space. The gyms are
pretty much being used to capacity, however, there are some issues that are hard
to quantify when you are talking family time versus open gym time but that is a
different issue. Ms. Presthus commented that she personally thinks we can never
give up the vision that we need this. She noted that we could figure out
somewhere down the line how it gets paid for, however, there is no funding to
operate it. Mr. Klus commented that the subcommittee does view this as an
operating expense issue.
Mr. Johnson stated that he is going to bat for the Park Board on the gymnasiums.
He noted that they need to look at how many kids are in the theatre program
versus the athletic programs, they need to look at the percentages because there is
a lot that is being done for the performing arts program. Mr. Johnson noted that
the theatre program is very big and is growing but the athletic programs are also
very big and we have to accommodate them as well.
Mr. Weiss commented that his concern is if we don’t build these facilities, people
are going to start leaving Edina. He noted that Eden Prairie has plenty of facilities
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and plenty of beautiful houses and open space. Mr. Weiss stated that he is not
against putting in a separate referendum on the table and let the voters decide. He
suggested that maybe they should look at splitting the referendum up into parts
and not making it one big referendum.
Ms. Grande indicated that her feeling is we need the space and understands that
this isn’t exactly the right time but asked if there is ever a good time. She noted
that it comes to a point where you just need to do it and get it done.
Mr. Klus noted that he does not think the subcommittee would not be averse to
saying we can look at this issue after the school bond issue. He stated that he
doesn’t think the subcommittee wants to do anything to jeopardize the school
bond issue and feels that putting two things in the newspaper at the same time
could jeopardize it. Mr. Klus explained that he doesn’t disagree with any of the
comments that have been made, it’s just that he doesn’t think the timing is right
with what the School Board is doing.
Ms. Sitek stated again that the subcommittee’s biggest issue is how much should
the city subsidize.
Mr. Johnson suggested that if the City is willing to pay for a portion of an
additional gym and the school maintains it maybe that is something they can look
at doing and then they won’t have to worry about chopping these gyms off the
referendum. The schools can use the gyms during the day and athletic
associations can use them in the evenings. Mr. Keprios replied that the City has
been very open to that, however, it was made very clear to them by Colleen Feige
that the School Board does not want any city involvement in their referendum.
Mr. Johnson noted that maybe it doesn’t have to be mentioned, it’s something that
can just be done by having the City just giving a certain amount of money
towards the gymnasiums. Mr. Keprios stated that the City has been open to that
idea.
Mr. Klus indicated that he is going to have to go back to the subcommittee’s
recommendation and that is recommend to the City Council not to build an indoor
athletic field facility or gymnasiums at this time. Mr. Klus suggested that
possibly the second motion tonight could be that we encourage the city to talk
with the school Board. Ms. Wexler suggested they state that the Park Board urges
the city to continue to look at other options. That way if another property
suddenly becomes available for purchase, the City Council will have a feeling for
what the Park Board is in favor of. Mr. Klus commented that he thinks that would
be a Park Board motion rather than a sub-committee motion because they did not
address that in their subcommittee.
Karla Sitek MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL ALL OF
THE RECOMMENDATIONS AS STATED IN THE FACILITIES STUDY
COMMITTEE’S REPORT. Mike Damman SECONDED THE MOTION.
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Ms. Presthus stated that she has a problem with saying that we do nothing until
after the referendum, especially if there is the possibility of still having some kind
of input as Mr. Johnson has mentioned. There still may be a way to do that before
this goes forward.
Mr. Klus indicated that maybe there should be an amendment attached to this that
states we encourage continued dialog with the city and school board on additional
field/gymnasium use. Ms. Presthus stated that she is much more in favor of that
than to cut this off and say we recommend nothing happen until January.
Mr. MacHolda commented that maybe they should ask the school district if they
would be willing to break down the referendum into parts and let the voters
decide what it is they want. Mr. Keprios pointed out that the city is of course still
willing to work closely with the school district on this issue, however, he noted
that the Facilities Study Committee agrees that these facilities belong next to the
schools. Mr. Keprios indicated that he does like the idea of offering two or three
questions on the referendum and letting the voters decide. Ms. Sitek commented
that she doesn’t think the city can have anything to do with this referendum. Mr.
MacHolda indicated that they could ask the school district to look at this through
a slightly different light. Mr. Johnson noted that he thinks it will get shot down
because they are nervous enough right now, however, he will bring it up at the
next meeting. Mr. Keprios commented we have to remember that the city and
school have separate taxing boundaries, which was one of the major issues in the
last city referendum that failed.
Mr. Klus indicated that other thing that could be done is there could be a plan for
extra gyms if they don’t ask the public for it. If the city knows that they can talk
to the school district about this once the referendum is over, maybe we can help
them build the gyms. Ms. Sitek asked can that be done to which Mr. Klus replied
yes because it’s future expansion, it’s not on the bond issue and we are not asking
the public to fund it. Mr. Keprios pointed out if the city plans to build gyms on
school property that’s going to serve the school during the day, then there are
going to be a lot of Edina residents who are in a different school district who will
be strongly opposed to that concept.
Mr. Klus commented that the only way they could amend this is that they
encourage the city to continue dialog with the school district about the possibility
of attaching gyms or a field house to the school property. Ms. Presthus replied
that would make her a lot more comfortable. Ms. Sitek noted she is good with
that. Mr. Damman noted that’s fine.
Linda Presthus MOVED AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION THAT WE
ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO CONTINUE DIALOG WITH THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF ADDING GYMS AND/OR
INDOOR ATHLETIC FIELD FACILITY TO THE SCHOOL PROPERTIES.
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Ardis Wexler SECONDED
AMENDMENT CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY
MOTION INCLUDING AMENDMENT CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
IX. OTHER
a. Condition of Lake Cornelia - Ms. Wexler asked if the testing and condition of
Lake Cornelia could be put on the agenda for next Park Board meeting. She
noted that Mr. Grabiel had mentioned there was an article in the paper regarding
this.
b. Snowmobile Usage - Ms. Presthus indicated that someone mentioned to her
that there is a problem with snowmobiles on the lakes by Fox Meadow Park. She
noted that the person informed her that it’s not unlawful according to state
ordinance to ride snowmobiles on the lakes and that the state ordinance
supersedes the city ordinance. Mr. Keprios replied he’s not so sure that’s correct
and will look into it.
c. Motor Scooters - Mr. Keprios indicated that he could see already that there’s
an issue that will need to be addressed regarding electric motor scooters. He
noted that technically they shouldn’t be on any pathways and he has already
received some complaints.
d. Iron Kids – Mr. MacHolda indicated that this weekend is the Iron Kids
Triathlon and they have 250 kids registered. This is the third season Edina has
hosted this event. He noted that the first season there were about 90 registrants
and last year they had the greatest increase of any national site from one year to
the next because they went up to about 200 registrants. He stated that the Iron
Kids Triathlon is for ages 7 to 14.
X. ADJOURNMENT
Jeff Johnson MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 10:00 PM. Mike
Weiss SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.