HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-06-08 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:00 P.M.
SOUTH METRO TRAINING FACILITY
JUNE 8, 2004
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: Mike Damman, George Klus, Linda Presthus, Karla Sitek, Jeff
Sorem, Alice Hulbert, Andy Finsness, Jeff Johnson, Allyson
Grande, Mike Weiss
MEMBERS ABSENT: Floyd Grabiel
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Vince Cockriel, Kevin
Kelleher, Mike Nibbe
OTHERS PRESENT: Kathy Iverson, Brittany Meyer, Ellen Jones, Shirley Hunt
Alexander, Gene Persha, Bill Haymaker, Kathy Zuspan, Idelle
Longman, Diane Plunkett Latham, Dan Latham, John Miller,
Mackenzie Miller, Abbi Butterfield, Pete Dehnel, Conor Marrinan,
Patti Marrinan, Tim Marcantonio, Kenny Friede, Kristi Butterfield,
Tom Horner, Libby Horner, Sharon Ming, Jon Barnett
____________________________
The Park Board went on a tour of the South Metro Training Facility. Mr. Keprios thanked Kevin
Kelleher, Operations Coordinator, for the wonderful tour.
I. APPROVAL OF THE TUESDAY, MAY 11, 2004 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Linda Presthus MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAY 11, 2004 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Jeff Johnson SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. DUCKWEED REMOVAL ON HIGHLANDS PARK POND – JON BARNETT
Jon Barnett, resident, indicated that he and his wife moved to 5633 Interlachen Circle last
fall. He pointed out that his next-door neighbor also wanted to be here tonight but was
unable to attend. Mr. Barnett passed around a photo to the Park Board that was taken last
fall of the duckweed on Highlands Park Pond. He indicated that duckweed was not a
problem until the last few years. He pointed out that in 2003 the green floating
vegetation that is shown in the picture was there from approximately mid-June until the
first frost. Mr. Barnett commented that the neighbors have informed him that
occasionally there was a very strong odor coming from the lake to which he personally
has not yet experienced. He stated that the duckweed is just now starting to form this
year. He noted that no one will swim in the lake in this condition and only a few will
canoe on it. Mr. Barnett pointed out that this lake is owned by the City of Edina whereas
there are some lakes within Edina that are owned by the property owners. He indicated
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that the city owns the land that sits around the lake as well. Therefore, the City has a 30-
foot easement from the lake to their yard as well as owning the lake. Mr. Barnett
explained that when they called the City of Edina to spray for it Mr. Cockriel came out
and talked to their neighborhood group and told them a little bit about it. He noted that
Mr. Cockriel informed them that there is a chemical called copper sulfate, which has been
approved by the EPA and explained that basically it kills the duckweed and returns the
water to its natural state. Mr. Barnett informed the Park Board that they are not asking
the city to pay for this because eight of the homeowners have agreed to foot the bill. It is
his understanding that the cost would be approximately $1,000 per year and according to
Mr. Cockriel it would need to be sprayed twice a year. Mr. Barnett stated that the
homeowners are just trying to improve the aesthetics of the lake as well as get rid of the
odor. He noted that the lake is not very deep and he believes that it does freeze from top
to bottom every year so there shouldn’t be a problem with fish or that type of thing.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that Vince Cockriel, Edina’s Park Superintendent, is basically in
charge of the treatment of all of the lakes and ponds throughout the community. He
noted that he is here tonight to answer any questions that the Park Board may have.
Mr. Barnett indicated that the north end of the lake was sprayed in 1998 after the resident
living at 5617 Interlachen Circle complained of swimmer’s itch. He noted that Dick
Pelinka, Utilities Superintendent at the time, did receive a permit and did spray the area.
Mr. Barnett stated that Mr. Cockriel would tell you that the city does not spray city
owned lakes. Therefore, the reason he is here tonight is because it’s city policy that they
do not spray the lakes and the homeowners of Highlands Park Pond would like to have an
exception made for them. Again, he stressed that the city would not be paying for this
because the homeowners have agreed to foot the bill. He noted that hopefully they would
be able to solve this problem.
Ms. Hulbert commented that the staff report states that the main reason behind the
neighborhood’s request is aesthetics and asked if the neighborhood would agree to that.
Mr. Barnett replied that number one because of the way it looks who would want to go in
it and secondly some of the neighbors have complained of an odor.
Mr. Finsness asked how many homes are on the lake to which Mr. Barnett replied that
there are five homes that back up to the north end of the lake. However, all along Mirror
Lakes Drive where there are homes that sit above the lake and really do not have much of
a view. Mr. Barnett pointed out that eight neighbors have agreed to pull together and
pay to have the north end of the lake sprayed. Mr. Finsness explained that he would like
to know if the other neighbors are in agreement to this. Mr. Barnett replied that he thinks
so, however, they didn’t really get into it too much because it seems like such a non-
issue. He noted that he couldn’t imagine someone not wanting to have this done.
Mr. Johnson asked about a permit to which Mr. Cockriel explained that the City would
have to go to the DNR and apply for a permit to allow them to spray. He noted that he
has serious doubts that the DNR will even let them do this. Mr. Keprios indicated that in
the letter he received from the Area Fisheries Department of the DNR it seems as though
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they encourage the residents to use a mechanical method rather than a chemical method if
they really want to get rid of the duckweed.
Ms. Presthus asked how reliable it would be to mechanically remove this to which Mr.
Cockriel replied that it would be very labor intensive. Mr. Cockriel explained that one
big concern he has with doing this is that it will set a precedent. He noted that he is also
concerned with what the effects will have on the wildlife and vegetation of the pond. Mr.
Cockriel stated that with that in mind he doesn’t think the DNR will go for it. He
explained that the way the process works is the City would request a permit and then
someone from the DNR would come out and take a look at it and see what other
management practices are currently being exercised.
Mr. Barnett indicated that he would at least like to see the City apply for a permit and let
the DNR come out and see what they think the solution may be and then take it to the
next step. Mr. Cockriel explained that when you get into a permitting process there are a
lot of different opinions and issues that people will have. He commented that even if
someone has what they would perceive to be a valuable amenity with the front of the
house cleaned up doesn’t mean everyone is going to get on board with this.
Ms. Presthus asked Mr. Cockriel how much of a problem is the odor because to her that
is something much different than the aesthetics. Mr. Cockriel replied that he’s not going
to doubt that there was an odor last year; however, it definitely did not come from the
duckweed because duckweed has no smell. He explained that more than likely the odor
was caused by rotting snails and dead fish because the basin was so low. Mr. Cockriel
noted that they treat approximately 37 bodies of water in the city to which most of them
are privately owned lakes. He explained that the reason they are involved at all is
because when there is a development they actually direct the water onto private property
because that’s where the lake is so with that concept they agree to help keep the water
flowing and somewhat clean so that it doesn’t become an issue. He pointed out that they
are all controlling lots of outlets. Therefore, the city gets involved in order to keep it
structurally sound so that they do not have any flooding issues.
Ms. Hulbert asked is there any public access to that lake such as a public boat dock or
swimming beach to which Mr. Cockriel replied that boating and swimming is not
encouraged on any of the lakes within the City of Edina with the exception of
paddleboats at Centennial Lakes. However, that’s not to say that a homeowner doesn’t
have a canoe.
Mr. Barnett stated that ultimately it’s the DNR’s call that’s going to make the decision,
however, they can’t get to the DNR without the city’s approval. Mr. Finsness asked if it
came down to it would the city want the residents to pay for it. Mr. Cockriel replied that
he doesn’t think the Park Board would have the authority to do it because there is not
park money spent on the lakes. He noted that the money for these types of projects
comes out of the Public Works Department.
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Mr. Johnson indicated that he read that duckweed is a food source and asked if they
would be taking out a major food source for fish and wild life. Mr. Cockriel explained
that duckweed for waterfowl and large birds supports insects that the fish eat as well as
they provide shade, which slows the growth for the bird plant. He also explained that the
duckweed, algae and water meal shade the water so that the bottom growth gets stunted.
Mr. Johnson asked if by eliminating one problem would we be creating another problem?
Mr. Cockriel replied that there’s no doubt that by eliminating the top vegetation other
types of weeds will take off.
Ms. Hulbert asked if this is a new problem or has it always been this way. Mr. Cockriel
responded that the reason he isn’t backing this proposal is because he doesn’t think it’s a
long-term condition of what the lake will look like in August. He explained that there
has always been some duckweed and some floating vegetation on these ponds because all
of this water is coming from Nine Mile Creek and is moving on through Edina. Mr.
Cockriel stated that even if we killed every piece of water meal and duckweed, if we had
a heavy rain we would get something from somewhere else into that body of water. Mr.
Keprios commented that they’ve also learned that duckweed is a very aggressive plant
and has very limited success for chemical application. It is not discriminating and
essentially kills all of the aquatic weed. Ms. Presthus wanted to make sure she
understood what has been said is that last two years have been abnormal because it has
been so dry. Therefore, this year because of all of the rain and water flow it might not
look at all like that this year. Mr. Barnett replied that if you went to his house right now
you would see it’s as bad as it was last year it’s just in a smaller area and added that he
thinks it’s going to be just like it was last year.
Mr. Barnett asked if dredging the lake could possibly eliminate it to which Mr. Cockriel
replied that it very well could. Mr. Cockriel noted that the lake hasn’t been dredged in a
long time, however, that’s out of the Park Department’s jurisdiction and would be an
engineering issue. He stated that would sure be a step in the right direction as far as
eliminating or slowing the growth of the floating vegetation.
Mr. Cockriel stated that he is concerned about setting some sort of policy because he does
get asked to spray other areas. He noted that a lot of the lakes/ponds look like that late in
the year.
Mr. Johnson indicated that he would like to get the DNR’s opinion on this and see what
they have to say. Mr. Finsness asked so the motion is to apply for a permit is there a
second Mike Weiss SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. TOBACCO-FREE PRESENTAION – KATHY IVERSON, EDINA CHEMICAL
HEALTH COORDINATOR
Kathy Iverson, Edina Chemical Health Coordinator, indicated that she is the Chair of
Edina Chemical Health Partners and also a member of CAFÉ (Clean Air for Edina). She
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noted that a number of organizations have members here tonight which include: League
of Women Voters, Adopt-a-Park Program, Edina Chemical Health Partners, HEROS, and
Edina Community Health Committee. She stated they are here tonight to request the
Park Board’s consideration for an expansion of the policy that has already been
established regarding tobacco use in Edina Parks to include a 24/7 ban on tobacco use on
all park property.
Ms. Iverson commented that they really appreciate all of the policies that have already
been established for a tobacco free environment at places such as the in door park
facilities. She noted that in addition they also appreciate the Park Board urging all of
their youth athletic associations to establish a drug, alcohol and tobacco policy that
reflects a zero tolerance approach to illicit drugs, tobacco and alcohol use by youth
participants. Ms. Iverson quoted the following from the Edina Park Board Statement of
Philosophy and Recommendations Regarding Drugs, Alcohol and Tobacco “It is the
belief of the Edina Park Board that the role modeling of parents, guardians, teachers and
coaches have a significant influence on youth attitudes towards the use of alcohol,
tobacco and other drugs. It is the Park Board’s policy and philosophy to encourage
parents and coaches to do their best to always display, positive and healthy role modeling
behaviors while interacting with youth”.
Ms. Iverson pointed out that a voluntary tobacco-free recommendation during youth
athletic activities offers limited protection for our community because there are a lot of
other youth and family activities/events that go on in our parks. She indicated that the
Park and Recreation Department has developed a comprehensive plan to guide Edina’s
parks administration and policies. She noted that in this plan there is reference to trends
affecting recreation programming to which some of the trends are significant to the
discussion tonight including physical fitness, wellness, nutrition, obesity, diabetes and
drug/ alcohol abuse. She commented that these trends are all health related concerns.
Ms. Iverson pointed out that the parks are one of the few places in our community where
all generations can interact together. Ms. Iverson stated a tobacco free park policy 24
hours a day seven days a week is not only cost effective, it is cost saving. She explained
that in a discussion with staff they learned that several hundred pieces of tobacco trash
are picked up weekly at Centennial Lakes Park to which they are not the only site where
there is a tobacco trash problem.
Ms. Iverson indicated that the City of Edina has tobacco free ordinances for all city and
park buildings. The Edina school system has a tobacco free policy for all school property
indoor and outdoor. The Southdale YMCA has a tobacco free policy, which extends to
all of its outdoor facilities including the new skateboard park to which the Edina Park
Board was strongly involved in its development. Ms. Iverson pointed out that the
neighboring cities of Richfield, Bloomington and Eden Prairie have ordinances limiting
and eliminating the use of tobacco in their parks. She commented that a consistent policy
throughout our community would translate into better serving our children, protecting our
health and serve to lower health care costs in the future. Ms. Iverson stated that there is
inconsistent policy regarding tobacco in our park system. She noted that contradictory
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messages are being sent to children depending on whether they are playing an indoor
activity where it is tobacco free or playing an outdoor activity where there is no tobacco
policy.
Dr. Peter Dehnel, Edina resident, indicated that he is a pediatrician as well as the Director
of the Children’s Physician Network and is also very involved with Hennepin Medical
Societies in Minneapolis. He stated that he is coming to the Park Board tonight to ask for
help. He explained that in Minnesota 39% of 18-24 year olds are current tobacco users,
which is a high percentage for this country and in 2001 Minnesota ranked the second
highest in the nation. He noted that 80% of the 18-24 year old smokers started smoking
before they were legally able to use tobacco. Dr. Dehnel explained that a tobacco free
parks ordinance would send a subtle but very powerful message starting from early
childhood that tobacco use is not the norm. He stated that when a young toddler is
watching a sibling play soccer and is exposed to the site of an adult using a tobacco
product it sets a precedent early in life. He noted this is something that the Park Board
would have the opportunity to intervene in. He stated that this is really important
because there are very few opportunities for tobacco prevention left. Dr. Dehnel
informed the Park Board that the legislature has gutted the tobacco prevention fund and
therefore there isn’t any money available for tobacco prevention.
Dr. Dehnel informed the Park Board that 80% of adults in general are not tobacco users
so if you support tobacco use in the parks you are going with the minority. He indicated
that there are many other communities that do have park and public place ordinances for
tobacco use and tobacco free zones and this could be another opportunity for Edina to
join them. He noted that he is sorry to say that Edina is not on the leading edge of this
but they should certainly not be on the trailing edge of it either.
Brittany Meyer informed the Park Board that she is the Program Director of “Tobacco
Free Youth Recreation” which is a statewide program that works with community Park
Boards and City Councils. She noted that she would be happy to answer any questions
anyone may have about adopting tobacco free policies or ordinances for their community
park systems. She explained that they have been working with this initiative now for
over three years and currently there are 50 cities around Minnesota that have either
adopted a policy or an ordinance which prohibits tobacco use in some or all of their park
property or park facilities.
Ms. Meyer went over the reason why some of these cities have been adopting these
policies. She noted that they look at the health, safety and welfare of the community.
They also look at having a consistent policy among all recreational facilities in the
community. She pointed out that the school facilities are your other primary recreational
facilities that already have a tobacco policy as well as the YMCA. Ms. Meyer noted that
many of the youth sports organizations already have tobacco free policies and because of
this communities have adopted these policies because they are urged to do so by the
youth sports organizations. She explained that sometimes the organizations have tobacco
free policies but the facilities they use don’t. Therefore, it makes it very difficult for
them to try and enforce that policy especially with the lack of signage and lack of
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community wide awareness about the policy. Ms. Meyer stated that cigarette butts make
a huge mess and take away from the beauty of the parks.
Ms. Meyer informed the Park Board that their program is happy to provide these signs to
communities who adopt a tobacco free policy or ordinance free of charge. She noted that
the majority of the cities who have adopted a tobacco free policy/ordinance are using
these signs right now by posting them around their parks. She indicated that generally
communities rely on posting signage and hopefully do a nice comprehensive publicity
plan. She noted that groups like the “Clean Air for Edina” would work with park staff to
come up with some promotional publicity ideas, which basically lets the community
know what’s going on. Ms. Meyer explained that with all of the communities that have
adopted these policies/ordinances none of them have police officers patrolling the parks
and ticketing people who are in violation of this because that’s not the point. The point is
to look at promoting a positive, healthy community.
Connor Marrinan, Edina resident, indicated that he is in the Adopt-A-Park program with
his brother and have adopted a park on Chowen Avenue for several years now. He noted
that when they have park clean up they always see a bunch of cigarette butts around. He
indicated that they have talked about putting up their signs because it really sends a bad
message to the kids when they see a bunch of cigarette butts on the playground area and
around the park. He commented that he would like to see the parks be tobacco-free. Ms.
Hulbert thanked Mr. Marrinan for his dedication and asked that he wear gloves when
picking up the cigarette butts because they are a biohazard.
Abbi Butterfield and Mackenzie Miller, students from South View Middle School and
Valley View Middle School, indicated that they are part of a group called HERO (Health
Educators Reaching Out). Ms. Iverson noted that basically both middle schools got
together and formed HERO which help try to make our community more aware of how
they can really help people lead healthier lives. Ms. Butterfield asked the Park Board to
imagine they are at their child’s athletic event in the summer and everywhere around
them are cigarette butts and the person next to you is smoking and people are coughing.
Ms. Butterfield pointed out that secondhand smoke is a very dangerous aspect of
smoking. She stated that the carcinogens, which are the cancer causing agents in
smoking, are actually higher in secondhand smoke than what the actual smoker is
inhaling. Ms. Butterfield stressed that by eliminating smoking in the parks they can
minimize the amount of secondhand smoke as well as it will stop all the cigarette butts
that are on the ground. In addition, people bring their pets to the park and if a pet ate a
cigarette butt and got sick it would be tragic for that person. Ms. Butterfield pointed out
that they have to face the truth that smoking is a danger to everyone, the smoker, the
animals and basically the whole community. She stated that by eliminating smoking in
the parks they won’t completely stop smoking but it will help put a dent in the problem.
She noted that kids will stop seeing smokers and think it’s cool and will realize it’s just
stupid.
Ms. Iverson indicated that the Executive Director of the Southdale YMCA could not be
here tonight. She handed out a copy of the YMCA’s policy which basically states: The
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YMCA has designated its offices, facilities, grounds and vehicles smoke free because of
its goal to improve the physical, mental, and spiritual well being of persons and its
dedication to providing a healthy and comfortable environment for its team members,
program participants and volunteers.
Tim Marcantonio, Edina High School Soccer Team Captain, indicated that he would like
to talk about some of his personal experiences. He noted that he likes to go down to
Garden Park for a run and sometimes there will be an adult there with their child playing
at the park as well as he will see someone there smoking a cigarette. He stated that it
isn’t healthy for the child or the person walking the dog or the runner. Mr. Marcantonio
commented that it’s actually harder to run when there is smoke around because it is
harder to breathe and that’s not healthy.
Diane Plunkett Latham, member of the League of Women Voters, indicated that the
League of Women Voters in Edina has a policy to reduce the substance abuse (alcohol,
drugs and tobacco) among the youth. She noted that she has found evidence of youth
smoking in shacks they have built in the big buckthorn thickets. Ms. Plunkett Latham
stated that if they can ban smoking in the parks it would set a better example and by
cleaning up the buckthorn thickets it will make the parks much less friendly for substance
abusers. She commented that she urges the Park Board to support the program of
banning smoking in the parks.
Tom Horner, Edina resident, indicated that he has coached boys traveling baseball in
Edina for the last 13 to 14 years and is now coaching girls fast pitch softball. He
indicated that in his professional life he does a lot of work around public policy including
health care and tobacco control. Mr. Horner stated that Dr. Dehnel pointed out that there
has been an increase in the number of smokers less than 18 years of age in Minnesota.
Mr. Horner noted that before the tobacco litigation was settled, Minnesota funded a target
market. He noted that after 1998 with the target market smoking started to decline
among people less than 18 years of age. Therefore, now with the elimination of funding
and tobacco controlled programs the tobacco smoke use among under 18 year olds is
going to skyrocket again. Mr. Horner again referred to Dr. Dehnel’s statement about how
smoking has increased in 18 to 24 year-olds and that 39% of the people in that age group
are smokers. He pointed out that is two times the rate of the older adults. Mr. Horner
explained that one of the interesting things that came out in the litigation with the tobacco
industry is how much they manipulated public opinion, particular those under the age of
18. He stated that there are reams of documents in which the tobacco executives talk
about the need to find replacement smokers among the under 18 year olds years because
their customers are dying off. Mr. Horner indicated that one of the most effective tools
that the tobacco industry has found in capturing the under 18 year old market is the role
modeling with sports, celebrities and their adult counterparts. He noted that parents and
older adults are definitely role models and when kids see those adults smoking, that sets
the norm and it becomes the accepted practice. He also noted that when they see it in a
sports environment it becomes the accepted practice as part of a health environment. Mr.
Horner informed the Park Board that the CDC has now said that even minimal exposure
to secondhand smoke has significant implications for all kinds of health problems. He
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noted that study after study has shown that second hand smoke, even in an open space,
can be devastating for one’s health.
Mr. Horner stated that his response to the Park Board is why wouldn’t you do this, with
80% of Minnesotans being non-smokers, why wouldn’t you protect the health of the kids
and the majority of people. Mr. Horner noted that the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids
estimates that 80,000 Minnesotans who today are under the age of 18 will die as adults of
premature deaths as a result of tobacco related diseases. He stated that to put it another
way 80,000 kids are going to die premature deaths as adults for decisions they are making
as kids modeled after what they see from their parents and other adults.
Ms. Iverson shared a perspective from a recent article in the Journal of American Medical
Association that was dated March 10, 2004. It states that medical treatments are
extremely costly and that 15% of the US gross domestic product is devoted to health care
and added that tobacco related health costs are significant. The current trends and actual
causes of preventable death from 1990 to 2000 reflect tobacco as one of the top three
causes of preventable death and the other two are diet/activity and alcohol. She noted
that because a substantial portion of these early deaths among the US population could be
prevented through lifestyle change the social commitment to making those changes
possible must be enhanced considerably. Ms. Iverson stated that decisions about whether
to smoke or not is the result of strong cultural and commercial signals. She stated that
our leadership and commitment at the policy level is important for progress. She stressed
that what we do as adults is much more impressive than what we say. Ms. Iverson
indicated that by having a 24/7 policy recommendation it gives us a chance to show the
kids that we care about them, we mean it when we say tobacco use is harmful to your
health. A tobacco ban on all park property is a potent way for our community to express
and reflect the values of the majority of Edina citizens. This issue is too serious and too
important to be considered as a voluntary recommendation or policy. After all, wisdom
is knowing what to do next but virtue is doing it.
Kathy Zuspan, Edina Resident, indicated that she is a mom but she is also an
anesthesiologist who does obstetric anesthesia so her concern is with the unborn baby and
she knows what problems smoking can cause. She stated that she was surprised to hear
that Edina’s parks were not smoke free and when she asked a lot of people about it they
were also surprised to hear that the parks were not smoke-free. Ms. Zuzpan stated that
this really is an important issue because most people think this has already been dealt
with. She pointed out that in Edina there are rules for things that are a lot less dangerous
to people such as skating on the sidewalk, camping in the park, changing oil in the park,
etc. These are a lot less dangerous to people than smoking and exposing other people to
smoke. She noted that this is a serious issue and all of the people in the audience tonight
demonstrate that. Ms. Zuzpan indicated that she heard someone say what’s wrong with a
dad who wants to walk clear across the field and smoke or what about the guy who wants
to walk his dog and have a cigar. She expressed that what’s wrong with that is that
person is walking on the footpaths which we are all relegated to and when that person is
long gone the rest of us our walking through his cloud of smoke. Ms. Zuzpan pointed out
that studies have shown that even minute amounts of smoke are toxic and carcinogenic.
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She stated why can’t Edina be more on the front end of this instead on back end, Edina is
a fabulous place to live so lets keep it that way.
Bill Haymaker, Edina resident, indicated that he grew up in Edina and his kids play
sports in the Edina programs as well as he has coached baseball. He noted that he is not
here to defend smoking per se and doesn’t view himself as a bad role model. Mr.
Haymaker stated that he thinks having tobacco free parks is a bad thing. He noted that
everyone knows that the top two leading causes of death are heart disease and smoking
and as we all know the leading cause of heart disease is diet. Therefore, if smoking is a
bad example then is not diet a bad issue also. He stated if that’s the case then maybe
there should be signs to the entrances of the park saying no fat people allowed. Mr.
Haymaker stated that smokers also help pay for all of this infrastructure in the parks. He
also pointed that he feels it’s very disingenuous to talk about that we are going to have
clean air if there aren’t smokers in the park; however, when people start their cars those
same issues are there. Mr. Haymaker stated that he is not here to defend smoking,
however, he is here to defend a world of tolerance because he is not convinced that
second hand smoke is a problem.
Mr. Keprios stated that before the Park Board discussion starts he would like to say two
things. First, Diane Plunkett Latham is also the president of Garden Council, so
whenever you see these gorgeous beds of flowers in your park system we can thank her
and the Edina Garden Council for all their help. He noted that the Garden Council
deserves big thanks for the fabulous job they do. Secondly, he noted that he really
appreciates the youth of our community being here tonight to speak before this group.
He stated that the youth here tonight are to be commended for having the courage to
speak before a crowd like this.
Mr. Keprios indicated that as far as city ordinance goes currently there is no smoking in
any of the City owned buildings. There is also no smoking allowed in any of the city
owned vehicles. However, there currently are no city ordinances that restrict tobacco use
outdoors. Mr. Keprios explained that the Park Board has asked him to go back and see if
the athletic associations would have an interest in supporting a tobacco free policy. He
noted that he also informed the associations that the City would be happy to put up
tobacco free signs at their athletic events. He noted that he would suggest that the
associations’ policies be under a voluntary compliance scenario. Mr. Keprios noted that
he has received a wide support from the athletic associations on this. He stated that he
thinks the group that is present tonight would like to see the issue taken a step further.
Ms. Hulbert commented that she takes the Park and Recreation Department’s Mission
Statement very seriously, which is to determine what the needs and desires of the public
will be. She noted that during the last couple of weeks she has talked to a lot of people
about this. She indicated that when she talked to the booster club at the school they said
they were not interested in any kind of tobacco free policy that made them do the
enforcement. She noted that she also talked to a parent of a baseball player who was
particularly incensed that her son’s coach smoked cigars on the field but because he is
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such a mean guy none of the parents wanted to approach him. She stated that she thinks
it puts people in a very awkward position to try to self-enforce.
Ms. Presthus indicated that she is definitely in favor of no smoking at games in front of
children, however, having the parks be tobacco free 24 hours a day seven days a week is
a whole different story. She noted that smoking is not illegal and pointed out that they
have parks that are around office buildings such as Centennial Lakes and if there is no
smoking allowed those businesses may want to move out of the Centennial Lakes offices.
She noted that they also have to think about the golf courses as well and realize that not
all parks have playground equipment and games played at them. She commented that she
sees a lot of problems with having a 24/7 policy/ordinance.
Ms. Grande stated that she agrees that smoking is not a productive thing for anyone.
However, it is legal for people to smoke who are over 18 years of age and she doesn’t
feel it’s their place to tell someone they can’t smoke outside. Ms. Grande noted that kids
are going to still keep smoking at the parks whether a sign is there or not. It really
doesn’t matter because it’s illegal for them to smoke in the first place.
Mike Nibbe, Edina Police Officer, indicated that police cannot enforce a tobacco free
policy in the parks; however they can take action if it becomes an ordinance. Mr.
Finsness commented that creating a city ordinance is a City Council procedure. He noted
that if they were to just put up a sign it’s basically still a voluntary compliance. Mr.
Keprios informed the Park Board that their charge is to recommendations on policies and
laws for the City Council’s consideration.
Mr. Johnson indicated that he goes to youth events with his daughter and son and he just
doesn’t see a lot of parents smoking on the sidelines. He noted that he thinks parents are
pretty conscious about not smoking in front of the kids. He stated that if he did see
someone smoking at a youth athletic event he might ask them to wait until people leave.
However, he does have a tough time telling someone who wants to walk their dog at 9:00
at night and have a cigarette that they can’t. Mr. Johnson commented that he would not
have a problem with putting up signs because it may prevent some people from doing it.
However, like Mr. Grabiel stated in his letter, if you start putting up new enforceable
laws maybe other laws become less enforceable which may open up a scary can of
worms.
Ms. Sitek stated that she has a problem with having a 24/7 smoke-free policy because she
also doesn’t feel it’s their place to tell people they can’t walk their dog at 9:00 at night
and have a cigarette. Ms. Sitek noted that she has kids who play a lot of sports and she
just doesn’t see people smoking around the kids. She indicated that she doesn’t think this
is something that can be enforced. She stated that 24/7 is a pretty hard line for something
that isn’t illegal.
Mr. Damman indicated that he pretty much agrees with what Ms. Presthus had to say in
that Centennial Lakes and the golf courses are a totally different thing than the parks with
the fields and playground equipment. He noted that Centennial Lakes has restaurants and
12
there’s an issue with that. He stated that Edina has some facilities in their park system
that a lot of other cities don’t have and we need to take that into consideration. Mr.
Damman commented that he would approve of having tobacco free parks where the kids
are having games. He noted that he would hate to see signs go up everywhere but if
that’s what it would take then that’s what they would need to do.
Ms. Hulbert indicated that she is an anesthesiologist and commented that why anyone
would want to smoke is totally beyond her. She noted that she doesn’t understand some
of the questions that are being raised such as since smoking is legal they should be able to
do it. Ms. Hulbert commented that there are a lot of things that are legal, however, you
can’t do them in the parks. She noted that they are not saying people can’t smoke, they
are saying people can’t smoke in the parks. She noted that she thinks the parks are
resources where a kid can go to work out; it’s like their own health club. She stated that
she doesn’t think anyone belongs to a health club where their treadmill partner is
smoking a cigarette. However, it seems to be okay to have a cigarette at the playground
with the children present because there isn’t a policy. At the moment, Edina parks are
smoker friendly. Ms. Hulbert commented that she thinks the parks should be tobacco
free because the purpose of parks is a place where people can go and find a clean,
healthy, natural environment.
Ms. Hulbert informed the Park Board that she was at Centennial Lakes last Sunday for
about four hours and in that time she saw one smoker. However, when she walked over
there during the lunch hour there were 20 to 30 smokers there because of the office
buildings. She asked is Centennial Lakes Park, which is the most beautiful park in the
city and state, there for smokers to come and use during the week? She asked why
couldn’t they go out in front of the buildings to smoke because there’s no reason they
need to smoke in the park. Ms. Hulbert pointed out that the amount of cigarette litter that
is at Centennial Lakes is incredible and the plantings are just full of cigarette butts. She
noted that she thinks that’s very inappropriate for our park system to be used in that way
by people. She stated that it’s the nature of smoking that you’re going to produce litter.
Ms. Hulbert indicated that she has spoken to the police chiefs of Eden Prairie and
Bloomington because both cities have ordinances. She noted that they have had no calls
on this and that it has been very positive and they would highly recommend a smoke-free
policy.
Ms. Hulbert stated that one of the major problems she has with smoking in the parks is
that teenagers tend to congregate in the parks to smoke because they have no place else to
do it. She noted that unless they call the police to have their ages checked you couldn’t
tell them to stop smoking. However, if there was a no smoking in the park ordinance
anyone could tell them to stop smoking in the parks because it doesn’t matter how old
they are.
Ms. Hulbert commented that Edina has a lot of gorgeous boulevards for people to walk
and smoke on so she doesn’t understand the whole concept of wanting to go to the park
and smoke. She noted that the parks are supposed to be their little preserve of cleanliness
13
in nature and beauty and she doesn’t know why smoking needs to go with that. In
addition, the streets are not set up for children’s recreation like the parks are.
Mrs. Hulbert pointed out that the incidence of exercise induced asthma is going up every
year and if a child who has asthma is engaged in a sport and someone is smoking that is
totally inappropriate.
Mr. Sorem indicated that some parks are obviously a cause for more concern than others
and asked if it would be possible to allow smoking at some parks but not others. He
noted that Braemar Golf Course would be an issue because people like to occasionally
smoke a cigarette or cigar on the golf course. He stated that there are not a lot of kids
around the golf course so they really wouldn’t be setting a bad example. Also, it would
be pretty tough for the Braemar rangers to enforce it. He also noted that if someone can’t
walk their dog and smoke in the park they will do it on the sidewalk and there are kids
playing in the driveways there so the bad example has been set.
Mr. Weiss stated that to the best of his knowledge the Edina Liquor Stores and the golf
courses sell cigars to which the Park Board is funded in whole by proceeds from those
parks and liquor store. Therefore, that may be an issue that should be addressed probably
prior to the conversation that is going on right now because maybe the city should not be
involved in this. Mr. Weiss pointed out that he doesn’t condone smoking and he doesn’t
recommend smoking, however, he doesn’t think they can legislate smoking. He
commented that his kids know that smoking is bad and noted that in his 8 years of being
involved with three sports he has never seen a parent smoking at an athletic event. Mr.
Weiss again stated that he has a hard time legislating behavior.
Mr. Finsness commented that personally he’s a big proponent of indoor air quality as
well as a big supporter of getting it out of the bars and restaurants. However, he agrees
with Mr. Weiss in that he doesn’t want to legislate it outdoors.
Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that he is an old hospital and nursing home CEO and
he knows the effects of smoking. He also explained that he has been contacted by the
Star Tribune three times in the last month to talk to him about the recent articles that were
in the paper on smoking. However, they did not quote him once in those articles with the
reason being they considered him a smoker because he likes to smoke 3 cigars a year.
Mr. Klus stated that he is a guy who once in awhile likes to smoke a cigar and walk in the
park. He also noted that for the last 8 years he has coached his son in baseball and
football and he can think of only one parent that smokes and that person leaves to walk
down to the end zone to smoke and then comes back to join the rest of the parents.
Mr. Klus stated that he has a hard time himself legislating smoking outside. He noted
that if he saw a coach smoking in the dugout he would ask them to please stop because
that is wrong, however, in his baseball experience he has never seen that. Mr. Klus asked
the Park Board if before he got to the meeting, had they heard any specific complaints
from the audience on smoking in the parks or was it more of the health issues, which are
14
rightly so issues. Are we having concerns in some of our parks other than Centennial
Lakes to which it was noted there were not.
Mr. Klus commented that he has a hard time recommending policy or ordinance for laws
that cannot be enforced. He noted that there already is a law that enforces juvenile
smoking and we need our police department to enforce that because he is not in favor of
seeing juveniles smoke.
George Klus MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL THAT WE HAVE A
POLICY THAT THERE BE NO SMOKING DURING ATHLETIC EVENTS. Linda
Presthus SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. Sorem asked Mr. Klus what he means by “event” to which Mr. Klus replied that to
him an event would be a game, it would not include practice. Mr. Johnson indicated that
his big concern is the people who are smoking outside the front doors at Braemar Arena.
Mr. Klus replied that he would rather see that addressed in a different motion because he
feels that is a separate issue.
Ms. Presthus asked Mr. Klus if this would be voluntary because unless there is an
ordinance there’s no way that it can be enforceable and asked if he is recommending a
policy or an ordinance to which he replied he would recommend an ordinance.
Ms. Presthus commented that they need to think these things out further, they can’t just
say yes we will have an ordinance and there will be a fine. She noted that they have
enough trouble enforcing things that are really a problem. Ms. Presthus pointed out that
she thinks obesity is a bigger problem and therefore do they want to start legislating that
people can’t have candy wrappers in the park because obesity is a problem and therefore
you shouldn’t be eating a candy bar in front of a kid. She asked how many laws are
going to be put on the books and how are they going to enforce it. Mr. Klus commented
enforcement is a tough issue and doesn’t think they really can enforce any non-smoking
ordinance. Ms. Sitek replied that it should then be a policy and not an ordinance. Mr.
Klus indicated that the reason he is suggesting an ordinance is because what he is hearing
the community say is we need to put some teeth to this and he doesn’t disagree with if
they keep it in a box that they control. He noted that the box that they can control is
athletic events. Ms. Sitek stated that if it’s not going to be enforced she doesn’t want it to
be a law. Ms. Hulbert replied that the police couldn’t enforce anything unless they are
standing there at the time.
Mr. Keprios asked Ms. Presthus if she seconded that motion knowing full well that it was
for an ordinance and not a policy. Ms. Presthus replied that she seconded the motion
only for the sake to be able to have a discussion.
In Favor: Jeff Johnson, Alice Hulbert, George Klus
Opposed: Allyson Grande, Mike Weiss, Linda Presthus, Mike Damman, Karla Sitek,
Jeff Sorem, Andy Finsness
15
MOTION DEFEATED
George Klus MOVED TO RECOMMEND THE SAME MOTION ONLY INSTEAD OF
IT BEING AN ORDINANCE HAVE IT BE A POLICY ADOPTED BY THE CITY.
Jeff Johnson SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. Klus clarified that it would not be the entire park; it’s only for the athletic field event
that’s going on. He’s not looking to make the whole park smoke-free, only that area that
is for the athletic game. He noted that he doesn’t feel we can legislate the whole park.
Mr. Sorem asked how far away would someone have to be from the athletic event before
they could smoke. Mr. Finsness commented that all they can do is put up a sign that’s
pretty blatant asking people not to smoke at these events. Mr. Klus commented that he
thinks they should look to the city for the recommendation on what they think is the
athletic field and the spectator area. Ms. Presthus asked so basically what they are doing
is just offering a voluntary sign that is going to say during athletic events we request that
you refrain from smoking.
George Klus CALLED THE QUESTION. Andy Finsness SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Johnson indicated that he would like to see a designated smoking area outside of
Braemar Arena away from the front doors. He noted that maybe they could put up signs
and some big can trash ashtrays. Mr. Klus asked if there is currently a sign there to
which Mr. Keprios replied no because it is not a policy.
Jeff Johnson MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL THAT THERE BE A
POLICY TO HAVE A DESIGINATED SMOKING AREA AWAY FROM THE
FRONT ENTRANCE AT BRAEMAR ARENA. Jeff Sorem SECONDED THE
MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Alice Hulbert MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL THAT ALL
PLAYGROUNDS ARE NON-SMOKING 24/7. Andy Finsness SECONDED THE
MOTION.
Ms. Hulbert clarified that by playground she means the sandlot that the pre-school
children play on. There is no smoking inside the sandlot. Mr. Finsness asked Ms.
Hulbert to make it a concise motion.
Alice Hulbert MOVED THAT THERE WILL BE TOBACCO FREE ZONES
ESTABLISHED AT ALL EDINA PLAYGROUNDS OF THE PLAY AREA, PLAY
LOT. Jeff Johnson SECONDED THE MOTION.
16
IN FAVOR: Alice Hulbert, Jeff Johnson, Allyson Grande, Mike Damman
OPPOSED: Karla Sitek, Linda Presthus, Mike Weiss, Andy Finsness, George Klus, Jeff
Sorem
MOTION FAILED.
Alice Hulbert MOVED THAT DURING PUBLIC EVENTS AT THE
AMPHITHEATRE AT CENTENNIAL LAKES WILL BE NON-SMOKING. Andy
Finsness SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. Klus asked Mr. Keprios if his staff have ever had issues with people smoking at the
amphitheatre. Mr. Keprios replied that they have not had any significant problems other
than some debris issues.
IN FAVOR: Alice Hulbert, Andy Finsness
AGAINST: George Klus, Michael Damman, Jeff Johnson, Linda Presthus, Karla Sitek,
Jeff Sorem, Mike Weiss, Allyson Grande
MOTION FAILED
The Park Board thanked the audience for coming and for all of their input.
IV. FACILITIES RECOMMENDATIONS (GYMNASIUMS AND DOME) – STAFF
Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that he and Mr. Keprios do not agree 100% on the
gymnasium and dome issues that are being presented tonight. Mr. Klus indicated that
Mr. Keprios’ recommendation states that there is really not much more that the City of
Edina can do for gymnasiums to which he would agree. He noted the reason being that
the gymnasiums really belong next to schools. He stated that he hopes that the school
district will be open to discussing the concept of placing a gymnasium in place of the hut
at the Community Center. However, it’s not the city’s position to go to the school and
ask them to do something on school property. Mr. Keprios commented that it’s okay for
the Park Board to make recommendations to the School Board but it’s not appropriate for
staff to do that.
Mr. Klus indicated that Mr. Keprios recommends that a dome should be placed at
Braemar because he is concerned about the cost of a permanent structure. Also, he is
concerned about the ability of the athletic associations to raise the needed funds.
Ms. Hulbert asked if anyone has considered partnering with another city to do this. Mr.
Johnson replied that he thinks most cities are already doing something on their own. He
noted that his big concern is there are so many going up right now that not everyone has
to rely on using Holy Angels. Mr. Klus indicated that Mr. MacHolda made a good point
17
that all of the domes that are going up are being done through the schools with the
exception of Plymouth.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that Mr. Keprios and he didn’t spend a lot of time on the
gymnasiums. However, they do agree in terms of trying to utilize general parkland and
agreed that Pamela, Rosland and Braemar would not be a wise utilization of those spaces.
Mr. MacHolda stated that as far as a dome goes he is in disagreement with Mr. Keprios in
that he is not in favor of putting up a dome at Braemar because they would need to put in
a fire lane, which would reduce the size of the playing surface. In addition, it would
greatly change the look of the park. Mr. MacHolda pointed out that he would not
recommend this, however, they are here to serve the community and if that’s what they
want they will do it. Mr. MacHolda explained that when they started the field in 1985 it
was too narrow for most sports. It worked for football but for most others it was too
narrow. Therefore, they removed some trees and created a large retaining wall on the
southeast corner so that it became more user friendly for other activities. Mr. MacHolda
pointed out that by putting up a bubble like this they are going back to what they once
had for space.
Mr. Keprios indicated that the Soccer Club stated at our last Park Board meeting that they
would be willing to compromise the width of that field so they could have a practice
facility. He noted that is what it would become, a practice field that’s affordable. He
commented that realistically it is affordable if the Soccer Club can come up with the kind
of money they are proposing. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks that under that scenario
they could get the job done without a referendum. However, Mr. MacHolda pointed out
to him that he’s not so sure that the individual who spoke on behalf of the Soccer Club is
speaking for the majority. It’s his understanding that the majority of soccer probably
doesn’t feel that way and that taking this approach would not be in their best interest.
Mr. Keprios commented that ultimately the athletic associations are primarily the ones
they would be building it for. Since there are so many domes going up outside of Edina
they will have to assume they will not be receiving any revenue from non-residents. Mr.
Klus indicated that maybe they should look at possibly partnering with a corporation
because over the years there have been people who have wanted to help.
Ms. Hulbert commented that looking at this from a coaches point of view if you build a
facility that is not regulation size they may say it’s okay for practice but in reality it will
not be okay.
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board if they are going to ask the user groups to seriously
come forward with a large amount of money they are going to want to know if it’s
something that they really want to do. They need to decide if this is the facility they want
and are willing to put up the money for. Mr. Keprios stated that staff has looked at all of
the parks and they feel very strongly that this is their only option because nothing else
will work within any other park.
Mr. Klus indicated that the Park Board needs to decide whether a dome is going to meet
enough needs and that it will be worthwhile for us to pursue it. Mr. Johnson asked if
18
nothing is done within the next couple of years are they going to lose their potential
donor?
Mr. Johnson commented that he thinks they should wait and see what the neighboring
communities are doing because they may not have enough tenants to fill them and may
end up begging us to come over and use theirs. Therefore, they may want to wait and see
if it fits our needs and then we don’t have to build one. He noted that yes; we may run
into some costs. However, we won’t need to spend 3 million dollars to build one. Mr.
Sorem indicated that he agrees with Mr. Johnson. He also noted that he would hate to
lose the field at Braemar because it is an excellent field. Mr. Weiss commented that he
thinks that they’ve identified that the schools have the most available land. Therefore,
maybe the city should wait a couple of years and see what the demand is and if that
demand is still there then go back to the athletic associations and say you’ve got to put
pressure on the schools because that’s the only place that makes sense.
Mr. Johnson stated that they are going to need to get commitments from the associations
and find out how much they would use it as well as what times they would use it. We
need to get an idea of how much we would be able to fill it within our own community.
Mr. Klus made a point that operating costs could be as much as $30,000 a month. He
noted that Soccer Club spends an average of $30,000 to $40,000 a year on rentals.
Therefore, that would take care of one month’s operating expenses. Ms. Hulbert asked
does anyone know how much these communities charge per hour for their domes to
which Mr. MacHolda replied that he believes it’s around $300.00 an hour.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that he thinks Mr. Johnson raises a very good point in that this
next winter season there are two more bubbles going up in nearby communities, which
will be a lot easier to get to than Holy Angels. He also pointed out that the majority of
people who use these bubbles use them for training space and/or camp opportunities. Mr.
Johnson again stated that he thinks there is going to be too much saturation in domes. He
noted that he could be wrong but lets wait a year and find out. Mr. Johnson stated that if
it were up to him he would have it put at Kuhlman.
Mr. Klus commented that personally he thinks there is a need, however, how much of a
need he doesn’t know. In addition, he agrees with Mr. Keprios in that there are going to
be some issues but as it was mention earlier “if we build it, they will come” which he
agrees with. However, will they use it enough to raise over $300,000 in revenue a year to
make it work, he doesn’t know. Mr. Klus stated that if they are going to put it to bed
than lets put it to bed tonight and if we need to bring it back in a year to discuss then they
will. Mr. Klus noted that he is willing to go out and talk to the associations and inform
them that this is going to go away because we don’t feel the support is there for it. He
stated that if any of the Park Board members think differently than you are going to have
to step up to the table because he doesn’t feel strong enough to move on it. Mr. Finsness
mentioned that at the last Park Board meeting they had a good turnout from the athletic
associations as well as he thinks that has been the strongest support they have heard so
far. Ms. Hulbert noted that she would like to say something for the record as far as
19
turnout and support and that is there are a lot more people here tonight on the smoking
issue then they’ve ever had regarding the dome. She wants to make sure it doesn’t go on
the record saying that the biggest turn out Park Board has had was regarding the dome
because that it not the case.
Mr. Klus stated that he believes if the associations keep growing the way they have been
they are not going to be able to meet all of their needs because we won’t have the fields.
He noted the he thinks they are going to reach the level where they are going to have to
go to other communities to practice because we physically don’t have the property.
Ms. Hulbert asked if the associations are going to be able to use the artificial turf fields
that they are putting in at the high school. Mr. MacHolda replied that the question has
been asked but to his knowledge it has not yet been answered. He noted that it is their
hope that the school will allow us to participate on those fields when they are not in use
by the school. He commented that he feels the city and the school have a great
relationship and they share facilities all the time.
Mr. Klus indicated that he thinks the same thing will happen with the dome issue that
happened with the smoking issue in that Park Board had to make a recommendation on
policy/ordinance because the associations weren’t going to do it. He noted that we asked
them and they didn’t respond. Mr. Klus stated that he thinks in the end the associations
are not going to come back to us. He noted that it’s up to the Park Board to make the best
recommendation they can to the City Council. Ms. Sitek replied that they’ve made their
recommendation to the City Council and there’s nothing else they can do. Mr. Klus
replied that they need to reflect that in the minutes if that’s what they believe. He
explained that he thinks we need to reflect something that tells these associations what
are stance is right now and if we come back and look at it in a year, fine.
Mr. Finsness noted that personally he would love to see a permanent structure at Braemar
just for the fact that they would have an indoor facility to use all year long. He
commented that he doesn’t know where the money would come from and knows that’s
probably being irresponsible. Ms. Hulbert stated that she thinks this needs to be a
rational business decision and not an emotional decision. She also noted that she thinks
that to make a business decision you need to wait six months and see what’s happening
with these other domes. Ms. Hulbert commented that those domes in the other
communities are still going to be there no matter what we decide to do in Edina and
pointed out that’s going to have a huge impact on whether it’s going to be profitable to
open another one. Mr. Finsness replied that’s only if they are trying to sell it to other
communities. Ms. Hulbert again stated that she feels if you build a non-regulation size
field they will go to other facilities where there is regulation size field. Mr. Finsness
asked would this be regulation size to which Mr. MacHolda replied that it would only be
a regulation size field for football and for the younger soccer players. Mr. Weiss
commented that if they build a permanent structure than there doesn’t need to be a road
put in and you pick up the extra 10 ft. Mr. Weiss stated that he’s with Mr. Finsness if
you are going to do it you have to build a permanent structure. Mr. Johnson indicated
that his question is who’s going to foot the bill when this thing losses money every year
20
to which Mr. Klus replied the city. Mr. Weiss asked if all of the city’s facilities make
money to which it was noted no.
Mr. Klus commented that they were put together to meet a need that the community had,
not based upon making money but providing services to the community that the
community wanted at that time. Ms. Presthus replied then we do it, we tell them that’s
what we want to do; however we can’t financially afford it. She noted that we say we
want to build a permanent facility at Braemar and ask the city how are we going to
finance it and what are we going to do because the need is there. Ms. Presthus pointed
out that it’s not up to the Park Board to figure out exactly how it’s going to be financed.
Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t totally agree with that because it is an enormous issue
and it is important for the Park Board to decide on a recommendation for funding. Mr.
Keprios stated that essentially the proposal he is asking the Park Board to recommend is
to ask the user groups to fund half of the construction costs and an additional ½ million
dollars in the bank to cover whatever operational losses/shortfalls they may have from
lack of revenue. Mr. Klus commented that what he is hearing is that some folks on the
Park Board would rather see a permanent structure that’s regulation size that can be used
by more groups for more activities. Therefore, they would have to raise three million
dollars or more. Mr. Keprios explained that there are other options of financing. He
noted that one would be a general obligation bond referendum. He pointed out that if the
associations can raise $3 million, then the City Council might be willing to fund the
remaining costs without having to go to the voters. He noted that there is a special law
that allows the City Council to issue general obligation bonds backed by liquor store
profits without having to go to the voters for approval. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks
the City Council may be willing to go with that if you are able to get the associations to
pay for half of the construction costs and a ½ million dollars in the bank to cover
operational expenses.
Mr. Keprios asked the Park Board do they want a bubble or a permanent building to
which Ms. Hulbert replied that she thinks that if they are going to go all the way they
should build a permanent building. Ms. Hulbert stressed that they will need to have
significant input from the associations, otherwise they will walk away.
Alice Hulbert MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO START WORK ON STARTING A
PERMANENT STRUCTURE WITH HALF OF THE FINANCING TO BE
ORGANIZED BY THE ASSOCIATIONS AND HALF BY THE CITY WITH A HALF
A MILLION DOLLARS FOR OPERATIONAL EXPENSES. Linda Presthus
SECONDED THE MOTION.
Mr. Finsness asked does that include the possible money that’s out there from some guy
to which Ms. Hulbert replied that if they can find someone who wants to give money
that’s fine.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he thinks what this does is it lets the user groups know that
they need to come up with that kind of money which will than determine if this indeed is
what they want. Ms. Hulbert stated that they need to make a significant financial
21
commitment to be a partner. Mr. Klus pointed out that he thinks it’s up to the Park Board
to talk with the user groups and not just leave it up to staff. We need to let them know
this is what we did for you, now what can you do to help us.
IN FAVOR: George Klus, Andy Finsness, Alice Hulbert, Jeff Johnson, Linda Presthus,
Karla Sitek, Jeff Sorem, Michael Weiss, Allyson Grande
ABSTAINED: Mike Damman
V. PARK ASSIGNMENT PRESENTATION – JEFF JOHNSON
Mr. Johnson indicated that his park assignments were Heights Park, Lewis Park and
Bredesen Park. Mr. Johnson noted that he grew up at Heights Park, lives by Lewis Park
and has walked around Bredesen Park.
Mr. Johnson informed the Park Board that the two new fields at Lewis Park are
absolutely in fantastic shape, whoever did them, did a great job. He noted that the
hockey rink is paved so people can play roller hockey in the summer. He indicated that
the middle field is also in very good shape. Mr. Johnson stated that there are some
problems with the tennis courts and parking to which Mr. Keprios responded he is aware
of those and that they are on the list to be repaired this year. He noted that the play
structure is very nice although he did have a complaint from someone that there should
be more infant swings because there is only one. Mr. Johnson commented that he doesn’t
know how much validity this has but a person also complained to him that the sides of
the slide are not high enough and kids could fall over.
Mr. Johnson indicated that the play structure at Heights Park is fairly new and he was
informed by some people who were playing there that it gets used a lot. He noted that
there is also a half basketball court and a bunch of kids were playing basketball before he
got there and that also seems to be well used. Mr. Johnson indicated that there is also a
little softball field. He also pointed out that there is a bridge going across the creek to the
easement on the other side over the hill. Ms. Presthus asked about the trail to which Mr.
Keprios replied that at one they did talk about that becoming part of the first tier regional
trail, however it’s too narrow of an area to have it used for that purpose. Mr. Johnson
explained that Heights Park is a neighborhood park, which does not have a parking lot.
Mr. Johnson stated that Bredesen Park has two parking lots and noted that they do have a
911 emergency phone at this park. He indicated that there are three trails at Bredesen
Park. One is the nature walk trail, which is really neat spot to walk around. He added
that there is also a walking path and a bike path to which both paths are just over two
miles. He noted that both paths in great shape. Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board
that all of the asphalt at Bredesen Park was redone as part of the 1996 referendum. Mr.
Johnson pointed out that there is a lot of buckthorn at the park. He commented that the
Park is well used and people really seem to enjoy it.
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Mr. Klus asked if there are any recommendations for improvements at these parks to
which Mr. Johnson replied just the general upkeep of the walking path at Bredesen
because. He noted that there really is no structure there other than the comfort station;
however, people like it and it is well used. He commented that he doesn’t think he needs
to update the Park Board on the buckthorn problem.
It was noted that Karla Sitek has the next park assignment.
VI. OTHER
A. Braemar Inspection Tour - Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that next month they
would not have a meeting because of the Braemar Inspection Tour.
B. Allyson Grande - Mr. Keprios asked Ms. Grande if this is her last Park Board meeting
to which she replied she’s not sure yet if she will be at the August meeting.
The Park Board thanked Ms. Grande because she really has kicked off the student Park
Board member position. Mr. Klus commented that he couldn’t think of a better student
to have kicked this off. He thanked Ms. Grande for her work on the Park Board the last
two years and noted that she has been a great member.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Linda Presthus MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 10:05 PM. Alice Hulbert
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.