HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-09-14 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
8:00 P.M.
EDINA COMMUNITY ROOM
EDINA CITY HALL
SEPTEMBER 14, 2004
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: George Klus, Karla Sitek, Alice Hulbert, Jeff Johnson, Floyd
Grabiel, Linda Presthus, Jeff Sorem, Andy Finsness, Mike Weiss
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Damman
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Susie Miller, John
Valliere, Susan Weigle, Diana Hedges, Todd Anderson, Ann
Kattreh, Tom Shirley
____________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE TUESDAY, AUGUST 10, 2004 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Mike Weiss MOVED TO APPROVE THE AUGUST 10, 2004 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Jeff Johnson SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. UPDATES
A. Tobacco-Free Regulation - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the City
Council passed a recommendation to make all parks tobacco-free including the golf
courses and Centennial Lakes. Mr. Keprios explained that the City Council has directed
the Park Director to draft the regulation under the authority granted by Code. He stated
that not long ago he discussed the issue with his staff and how they were going to
approach this to which a copy of his memo is in the Park Board packet. Mr. Keprios
stated that the tobacco-free regulation would go into effect October 15th. He explained
that they picked that date because it will give them enough time to order signs and put
them in place.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he would like to give a big compliment to Ms. Miller because
on the same day they held their staff meeting she generated a wonderful business size
card for city employees to hand out to their customers. The card educates and informs
people about the tobacco-free regulation. He pointed out that during the first year he is
anticipating they are going to work hard on educating the public about the regulation. He
explained that it’s not a policy but rather a regulation that can be enforced if they so
desire. However, for now they are going to approach this with an emphasis on education
so that the public is aware that the parks are a special place and it’s a regulation that we
want people to abide by. It is not a voluntary compliance policy, it is a regulation. He
commented that they would have all signage in place by October 15th when the regulation
takes effect.
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Mr. Keprios indicated that he was not at the City Council meeting, however, Mr. Grabiel,
Mr. Damman and Dr. Hulbert were there. Mr. Klus asked Mr. Keprios to elaborate on
the enforcement of this regulation, is it strictly going to be from park employees and if
that doesn’t work then enlist other city staff to help enforce it. Mr. Keprios replied that
our primarily goal is to educate people to please not smoke and enforce it as necessary. If
a staff member asked someone to put out their cigarette, etc. and that person became
belligerent and out of control then yes staff could go as far as ejecting them from the park
and/or call the police. It is their intent that park staff will be the ones enforcing this. Mr.
Johnson indicated that he assumes this would include the arena and baseball fields at
Braemar Park as well as the parking lot to which Mr. Keprios replied that is correct. Mr.
Keprios stated that he had asked the question of whether people can smoke in their cars in
the parking lots to which the answer is no.
Mr. Keprios expressed to the Park Board that he appreciates the time and energy that they
have put into this. He noted that these are not easy issues and he appreciates the
deliberation they gave it. He commented that he knows the City Council also appreciates
the effort the Park Board put into this.
Mr. Grabiel commented that one of the things that happened at the City Council meeting
was the Human Relations Commission wanted to change their name to the Civil
Rights/Human Rights Commission or something to that affect. At that time, Mayor
Maetzold made a point of commenting on the good work of the members of the Human
Relations Commission and how much he appreciates all of their efforts, etc. Mr. Grabiel
stated that in regards to the Park Board the point ought to be made that when a citizen
body spends a lot of time on an issue it ought not be just ignored. He noted that it was
pretty clear that the City Council had made up its mind. However, he felt that some of
the City Council members changed their position during the meeting due to the crowd in
the audience. Mr. Grabiel stated that he was the only person there that either spoke on
behalf of the Park Board’s resolution or against the expansion of the ordinance. He
commented that he thought it was rather disheartening that when people on a public
board like this spend a lot of time on an issue and then we are just blown off by the City
Council. He suggested to Mr. Keprios that he might want to take this back to Mr. Hughes
or someone. He added that he really feels this needed to be said. Mr. Klus commented
that he doesn’t disagree with Mr. Grabiel and indicated that he did call some of the City
Council members about the Park Board’s recommendation. He noted that it was clear to
him in talking with them that their minds were made up before the City Council meeting
and that they were not in favor of our motion at that time. Mr. Klus stated that he has
been through this a couple of times with the Park Board where they worked very hard on
an issue just to have the City Council reject it and go with their own thoughts. Mr. Klus
commented that it does leave a bad taste because sometimes you don’t want to work that
hard because you feel the City Council has already made up their minds. However, we
know that the spirit of the City Council is not to do that and we also know this is an
election year and that may have had something to do with the decisions that were made.
Mr. Klus noted that it is disappointing, however, and he thinks there are times and places
for the Park Board to discuss these issues again the future. He stated that the Park Board
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can do that but it cannot come from staff because staff has already been instructed on
what they need to do.
III. 2005 FEES AND CHARGES
Mr. Klus explained that each year the Park Board is asked to look over the fees and
charges for all of the enterprise facilities and then make a recommendation to the City
Council for the fees and charges.
Mr. Keprios indicated that all changes in fees and charges from 2004 to 2005 are listed in
bold print. Mr. Keprios started with the Park and Recreation fees and charges and
indicated that quite a few of the fees have gone up very minimally. He pointed out that
there is one significant change with the Fab 4 and 5 program in that it jumps from $51.00
to $66.00. He explained the reason for this is because they are adding an additional week
to the program. Mr. Keprios stated that there are also some new programs being added
and noted that he really has to applaud Ms. Miller and Ms. Tilsner for starting these new
programs. He explained that these programs were created after the City Council had
already passed the 2004 fees and charges and therefore didn’t have the opportunity to
vote on them.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that with the adult athletics everything has pretty much stayed
the same with some slight increases in order to cover the referee/umpire increase.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that he is leaving the Aquatic Center season ticket the same rate
as last year because he has raised the fee slightly over the past two years. He explained
that so many of the season tickets are purchased before May 1st for the discounted price.
However, because this past summer was so cool he thinks that in 2005 people may have a
different mind-set and it may be more difficult to sell season tickets. He noted that he
thinks people are going to wait as long as possible and determine which way their money
is better spent. Mr. MacHolda stated that is the reason he would like to keep the season
ticket rate the same slightly raise the daily admission fee. He pointed out that by raising
the daily admission fee it might steer people towards a season ticket, which is like
insurance in case there is bad weather during the summer season. In addition, he would
like to deter some of the busloads of groups that come to the facility because he feels they
kind of flush out the season ticket holder.
Mr. MacHolda informed the Park Board that last year the Park and Recreation
Department discontinued teaching swimming lessons and partnered with the Foss Swim
School. He explained that he rents the body of water, to which he charges a fairly
competitive rate compared to some of his other venues, and it’s not his place to tell them
what those fees should be. Mr. MacHolda noted that they have a five-year contract with
Foss Swim School to which they will be entering their third year.
Mr. Klus asked in terms of revenue were this year’s season tickets the same as last year to
which Mr. MacHolda replied that the dollar amount was just a little bit higher, however,
the fees were higher so they probably sold a few less tickets. Mr. Klus asked what is the
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percentage between season tickets and daily admissions to which Mr. MacHolda
responded that the season ticket is the bulk of their revenue. However, during a good
summer they can take in anywhere from $150,000 to $170,000 in daily admissions. Mr.
Klus asked Mr. MacHolda if by raising the daily admission to $9.00 does he think there
will be less daily admissions. Mr. MacHolda replied that he doesn’t think so but it is all
weather generated.
Mr. Sorem asked what’s the percent of residents to non-resident who purchase season
tickets to which Mr. MacHolda replied that approximately 40% of the season ticket
holders are non-residents. He noted that many of those people who are non-residents
grew up in Edina.
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that Mr. Thayer could not be here tonight because
of a previous commitment. Mr. Keprios indicated that Mr. Thayer annually increases the
hourly ice fee $5.00, which he is doing that again this year. He noted that essentially it
would take over the first week in September of 2005 where the fee will then become
$155.00 an hour. He stated that everything else is staying the same because he doesn’t
see a need for any increases. Mr. Johnson asked when the bond would be done to which
Mr. Keprios replied in 2009 and at that time they will be able to turn a profit. Mr. Sorem
asked how does Braemar’s hourly rate compare to other rinks to which Mr. Keprios
replied they are right there with everyone else.
Ms. Hedges indicated that the Art Center is going to make a fairly aggressive raise this
year. They would like to raise their classes by 10%. She noted they have also made a
few raises of 2% and 3%, which still keeps them on the high side of the range compared
to other art centers. Ms. Hedges indicated that the Bloomington Art Center so far has lost
200 students this year. She stated that Edina’s Art Center has either held steady or gone
up. She indicated that they are still keeping the 5% discount to members who are
residents and added that not a lot of people take advantage of it. Ms. Hedges pointed out
that they would still like to keep the family classes at a lower rate because a lot of
families are struggling and more people are able to be involved at the lower rate.
Ms. Hedges pointed out that they have consolidated the Media Arts Studio Equipment to
allow more space for the “School of Realism,” which is a four-year program and is a very
serious affiliated type of training center. She noted that their computer system has been
moved to the Senior Center where they are offering classes. Ms. Hedges indicated that
Phil Johnson, Art Center Media Manager, is now working part-time which will help cut
their expenses. Ms. Hedges stated that their donations are up as well as the sales in their
gallery.
Mr. Klus asked if there are still capital things going on at the Art Center that they will be
looking at to which Mr. Keprios replied they just awarded a bid for the roofing project for
approximately $26,000. In addition, they are going to expand the parking lot, which he
will discuss at next month’s Park Board meeting.
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Dr. Hulbert indicated that she understands that the Art Center is renting space at the
Senior Center and asked if it’s something that will likely expand. Ms. Hedges replied
that they have six studio session artists at the Senior Center who rent the space for
$120.00 a month from 8:00 to 4:30 each day. She noted that it’s been wonderful for both
the Senior Center and Art Center because they each receive revenue from it. Mr. Keprios
informed the Park Board that he did not intend for that fee to be put on the fees and
charges schedule. He explained that it’s really his duty to determine how much one
facility should charge another within the Park Department. He apologized to the Park
Board and noted that it will be taken off of the schedule.
Mr. Valliere pointed out that with the number of golf courses that are out there it’s a very
tough market. He noted that he anguished a lot about raising any of the fees, however, on
the expense side they need to do something to offset it. He explained that a lot of the
charges are incidental and do not derive a lot of revenue. Mr. Valliere stated that the key
items of the golf course are the greens fees and noted that they are looking at a $1.00
increase for 2005, which is basically a 3% increase. He indicated that he thinks their
golfers can live with that. Mr. Valliere commented that approximately every five years
they try to increase the patron card to which the last increase was in 1999, however, in
2004 it wasn’t appropriate so for 2005 there is a $5.00 increase to which he doesn’t think
it will impact too many people. Mr. Valliere indicated this year he is asking for a junior
rate because he feels that the cost of golf has climbed to such an extent that the juniors
aren’t able to play a lot. He noted that a lot of them are beyond playing at the executive
course. Therefore, he would like to give them a break because a lot of these kids are
paying for it themselves and to pay $33.00 for them is a bit much. He added that it used
to be that the course didn’t have a lot of open times but now there are some open times
and he would really like to capture these juniors as future golfers. Therefore, he is
advocating an $18.00, 18 hole rate and a $9.00, 9-hole rate. Mr. Valliere indicated that
it’s been three years since they’ve made any increases at the executive course and noted
that they are moving from $11.00 to $12.00. He noted that of all the 48 executive courses
in the area they are a little bit low, so he doesn’t see a problem with the $1.00 increase.
Mr. Grabiel asked Mr. Valliere if he put his fees together before or after the tobacco-free
action was taken to which he replied he put them together before. Mr. Grabiel asked Mr.
Valliere if he thinks that made a difference to which he replied he thinks it could affect
them. Mr. Valliere noted that a couple of leagues have informed him that they are not
going to play at Braemar if the smoking ban stays on to which one of them pre-paid for
the year to the tune of approximately $8,000.00. He commented that there are a few
other things the tobacco-free ban may affect such as the food/beverage situation and what
he is most fearful of is the loss of wedding receptions.
Dr. Hulbert asked Mr. Valliere if they have ever looked at having a season pass for a
bucket of balls to which he replied they have, however, it was their decision that they
would massively come out on the short end. He explained that what they used to do, and
they may do it again at some point, is sell a pass where you could get 12 buckets of balls
for the cost of 10. In doing it that way they can control it as well as reward their loyal
customers.
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Mr. Keprios expressed that he really appreciates and supports what Mr. Valliere is
proposing. Mr. Johnson asked at what age is someone no longer a junior to which Mr.
Valliere replied you are no longer a junior at 18 years of age. Mr. Weiss asked if there is
a junior patron card to which Mr. Valliere replied there is not although some juniors do
buy it for the convenience of making a tee time. He noted that maybe that is something
that they can look into.
Mr. Grabiel asked Mr. Valliere if Braemar has implemented the wine and strong beer to
which he replied that it reached his desk yesterday. Mr. Keprios explained that it got a
little complex because of the State and we needed to jump through another legal loop that
required Braemar to attain a dispensary license. Therefore, the City Council still has
dictated that we will still only sell 3.2 beer as opposed to strong beer but we will have the
ability to sell wine.
Dr. Hulbert noted that she thinks the idea of getting a punch card for the driving range
would probably be really helpful for the juniors because she is always dropping her kids
off at the golf course.
Mr. Shirley indicated that at Edinborough Park they have kept every fee the same for
2005. He pointed out that last year they visited their fees late in the year with the
addition of the play park as well as they raised the daily admissions to the pool and track.
Mr. Shirley stated that over the year their gross revenues were in excess $400,000, so it
has worked very well.
Mr. Shirley stated that at Centennial Lakes they made a couple of small increases with
the Friday and Saturday night wedding rentals. He commented that like Mr. Valliere they
are also a little leery of raising that too much. He noted that they are basically booked
solid, however, it will be interesting to see how they are affected by the tobacco-free
regulation. Mr. Shirley commented that the only other increase they’ve made is they
raised the winter sled rental up $1.00 because they can barely keep the sleds in stock. He
indicated that everything else is staying the same.
Mr. Keprios indicated that again he really has to commend Mr. Shirley and Ms. Kattreh
because they have absolutely hit a home run with the play park. He noted that in the
beginning they said they would be very pleased if they hit $100,000 mark and as of right
now it’s over $400,000.
Mr. Klus asked Ms. Kattreh how the playground equipment is holding up to which she
replied it is holding up incredibly well, much better than they had anticipated. She noted
that the company has been very good at coming in and fixing anything that needs to be
done because the warranty period is almost over with. Ms. Kattreh pointed out that even
the manufacturers are a little surprised because this is one of the heaviest used structures
they’ve ever installed. It’s been a good test of the quality of their product.
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Mr. Keprios indicated that the park rentals went up $2.00 an hour. He noted that the
athletic fields went up $5.00 an hour and can only be rented by residents of Edina. He
stated that they did not raise the per participant fee for the athletic associations, which
includes the Edina Hockey Association’s use of the outdoor rinks as well, because they
were just raised a year ago. Mr. Keprios pointed out that he is proposing a $5.00 increase
for a half-day use of the four premiere shelter buildings. He commented that he is very
pleased that they are getting such a tremendous amount of use. He added that he doesn’t
think $5.00 is going to make a big difference and added that the city is spending a lot
more to maintain them. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks the premiere shelter buildings
will make a good argument for replacing the older shelter buildings, which have limited
use beyond the skating season. Mr. Sorem asked how does it work when someone wants
to rent one on a Saturday night during the winter months. Mr. Keprios responded that
they wouldn’t allow it to be rented because when it’s open to the public for ice-skating,
it’s not available for rent.
Ms. Weigle stated that they are not raising their yearly dues this year and noted that they
are probably one of the only senior centers that even ask for a yearly due. She noted that
what they are now doing is adding a spot to put in a donation when they send in their
membership fee. She commented that the fee is $16.00 and a lot of people are sending in
$20.00 and $25.00. Ms. Weigle informed the Park Board that she thinks they have done
very well and their membership is approximately 1,700.
Ms. Weigle indicated that they are currently in the process of working on the kitchen so
that they will have more flexibility. She noted that they are taking out all of the
cupboards and redistributing them in other rooms as well as they will be putting in a three
basin sink, a hand-washing sink, a proper refrigerator and freezer. She stated that thanks
to both Rotary groups they are able to have this. Mr. Klus asked Ms. Weigle shouldn’t
there be a rental fee for this area for the future to which she replied they are not ready yet
but it will happen down the road. She noted that she hopes the kitchen will be done
before October 19th.
Mr. Grabiel asked what does the Senior Center consider a senior to which Ms. Weigle
replied 55 and older.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that one thing that’s new this year is there’s a Community
Education fee. He noted that Edina Community Education will be paying a minimal fee
to have their classes at the Senior Center and they don’t seem to have an issue with it.
Ms. Weigle noted that the seniors love going to the senior center for classes so they
decided they needed to make some money from that too.
Mr. Anderson indicated that at the golf dome they are proposing minimal increases to
which they are still in the ballpark as their competitors.
Mr. Klus asked Mr. Keprios if he sees any of the proposed fees as being controversial
with the City Council to which he replied he doesn’t think so.
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Floyd Grabiel MOVED TO APPROVE THE 2005 FEES AND CHARGES AS STATED
FOR THE PARK AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT. Jeff Sorem SECONDED THE
MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Grabiel indicated that he was at the Art Show at Centennial Lakes on Saturday and
noted that he would like to compliment Mr. Shirley and all of the staff at Centennial
Lakes for the wonderful job they did. Mr. Klus noted that as a Park Board he would like
to compliment all of the staff who run the enterprise facilities.
IV. UPDATES
A. Off-Leash Dog Park – Mr. Keprios explained to the Park Board that in the past they
tried to get an off-leash dog park in Edina and therefore hired a consultant to do a study.
He noted that the Park Board went through the recommendation process and the City
Council agreed that the best spot for an off-leash dog park would be to have some type of
arrangement with the Minneapolis Park Board to use the Minneapolis Water Works site
on France Avenue. Mr. Keprios explained that the City of Minneapolis owns this four
plus acres of property and noted that the City of Minneapolis recently contacted him and
said they have an interest for us to use this as a dog park. Mr. Keprios pointed out that
before it was the Minneapolis Park Board that wanted to do this. The Minneapolis Park
Board is a completely different entity. He noted that it didn’t fly the last time because
the City of Minneapolis wouldn’t allow us access. In addition, Edina already has a joint
powers agreement with the City of St. Louis Park and it fell apart because the City of
Minneapolis wouldn’t allow them access. He noted that the City of Minneapolis
informed him that they would be willing to lease Edina the property for $6,000/year with
the condition that they would have to include the Minneapolis Park Board. Mr. Keprios
indicated that they already have an arrangement with the Minneapolis Park Board if they
live up to their part. He stated that he called the Minneapolis Park Board and they said
they would love to be a part of it but they have budget issues right now and the only thing
they would be able to do is give a few dollars for fencing but that they would not be able
to operate it. Mr. Keprios pointed out that is completely different from what the joint
powers agreement states. He indicated that he has asked the Assistant Superintendent of
Minneapolis to send him a letter to see what level of commitment they are willing to
come up with. He noted that once he receives that he would bring it to the Edina Park
Board. He indicated that he wanted to give the Park Board a heads up on this issue.
B. Indoor Athletic Field Facility - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the City
agreed 100% with the Park Board’s recommendation and that the next step is to hire a
consultant to study it. We need to know how much it’s going to cost to put up the
facility, how much it’s going to cost to operate it as well as is it a feasible site. He noted
that another point that the City Council brought up is they should not be too short sided if
they ever decide to put in additional hockey rinks. They don’t want to block themselves
from that possibility. Mr. Keprios explained that he has sent a request for a proposal to a
firm that’s very familiar with the site who did a study on putting up a bubble some time
ago. He noted that hopefully by Thursday he would have an answer as to what it is going
to cost to do this.
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Mr. Klus noted that the Park Board would need to decide, with recommendations from
the staff, what is feasible for the city to put forth as well as how much does the
community need to raise. Mr. Keprios commented that he was pleased that the City
Council made the comment for now let’s not worry about the funding but rather is this
feasible, is this the right location and is this the right type of facility. Does this make
sense now as well as ten years from now?
Mr. Klus indicated that he feels the Park Board needs to continue to push forward until
they get to a point where they know the City Council will approve a site. In addition,
they need to look at the money issue and see if the community is ready to act on it. Mr.
Klus stated that he’s real hopeful that they can push it that far and if the community
decides they don’t want to support the issue then at least they’ve done their job as Park
Board and can put it to bed. However, he thinks they need to push it that far and is
hoping that the one large contributor from the Lacrosse area will still have the money and
still want to make a large contribution towards this.
C. Gymnasiums – Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that the City does have a letter
from School Board stating that they are in favor of trying to work out some kind of an
agreement with the City to build two gyms on the south end of the Community Center.
Mr. Johnson explained that recently the School Board had a workshop on this and there
are still two or three board members who are against building anything new. However,
the majority of the board is in favor of looking at this especially since they are now going
through the construction phase. He explained that there are a couple of different ideas
being thrown around, one of which is putting something by the tennis courts and the other
would be to add on to where the hut is right now. Mr. Johnson noted that would be a
total of six useable gymnasiums in one area, which will be good for tournament purposes.
He indicated that the initial proposal is the school will provide the site and city will pay
for the capital and operating expenses. He noted that if the Surge program, Kids Club or
another school program needs to use the facility during the day then they could work out
some kind of a fee. Mr. Johnson stressed that he can’t see this not working and he would
be very disappointed if it doesn’t work out. He stated that this problem is not going to go
away because it’s only going to get worse and worse. He commented that now is the
time to do it when they have the architects and the builders otherwise it’s going to be
twice as expensive to do it in the future. Mr. Johnson pointed out that the biggest worry
for some of the School Board members is they don’t want to do anything more than what
they’ve asked for in the 85 million dollar referendum. He noted that he thinks if it’s
communicated to the public that the city is paying for both the capital and operating
expenses that most people will be okay with it. Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that at
the City Council meeting it was decided that Scot Housh and Jim Hovland would work
with a committee from the School Board and a representative from Basketball
Association. Mr. Klus noted that Mr. Keprios and he would like to see someone from the
Park Board also be a part of this. He commented that he would really like to try and get
this done because it is a very important issue and the best place for it is at the schools or
Community Center.
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Ms. Presthus comment that she would again like to commend Mr. Johnson, who’s been
very proactive with this on behalf of the Park Board as well as Linda Masica who has
also worked very constantly towards it. Mr. Johnson pointed out that he doesn’t want
anyone to rule out Kuhlman being domed, he’s still fighting for that. He noted that there
are six houses as far as he could tell that would be affected by it and there may be a few
people complaining but he thinks it would be for the good of the community. Kuhlman is
definitely the obvious place to put it.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that one of the real issues with placing an indoor athletic field
facility at Braemar is that it’s going to sit empty during the day, which is such a shame.
He noted that the whole concept of putting something, even a bubble, at Braemar makes
him ill because it’s the wrong place for it. Mr. Weiss stated that he thinks there are going
to be other issues with putting something at the Community Center because a lot more
traffic will be brought in. That quiet neighborhood all of a sudden isn’t so quiet.
V. OTHER
A. Park Presentations - Mr. Keprios indicated that, if they want, Ms. Sitek and Ms.
Presthus could both give their park presentations at the October Park Board meeting.
B. Grandview Square Park – Mr. Keprios indicated that he has hired and architect to
design a plan for Grandview Square Park. Opus and Ron Clark Construction are each
putting $14,500 to develop the small park. He noted that the plan is to develop it into
something more attractive than just grass; possibly some sculptures and unique
landscaping. He stated that they are also going to promote a fundraising effort like they
did at Fox Meadow Park.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
Karla Sitek MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:25 PM. Floyd Grabiel
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.