HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-06-14 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:00 P.M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
EDINA CITY HALL
JUNE 14, 2005
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: George Klus, Jeff Johnson, Linda Presthus, Todd Fronek, Jeff
Sorem, Karla Sitek, Ray O’Connell, Jessica Selleck
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Damman, Andy Finsness, Mike Weiss
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Vince Cockriel
OTHERS PRESENT: John Peyton, Jim Fehrenbach, Sue Kelly, Jan Bernatz, Charlie
Kelly, Tim Creajan, Jeff Bowers, Tim Campion, Molly Cronin, Pat
Cronin, Nick Cronin, Kathleen Carter, Greta Simondet, Katie
Meehan, Tim Meehan, Corrin Carlson, Al Carlson, Brad Benson,
Ken Cutler, Craig Flom, Neal Campion, Nancy Hall, Doug Hall,
Randy Sawnstrom, Jill Hartman, Albert Walla, Bill Reber, Bob
Kaiser, Jon Moon, Julie Risser, Jean White, Heidi Dorfmeister,
Jeannie Hanson
____________________________
I. APPROVAL OF THE MAY 10, 2005 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Linda Presthus MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAY 10, 2005 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Jeff Sorem SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. UPDATES
A. Gymnasium Project – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that they are moving
along on the gymnasium project. He noted that the School Board has learned that bids
are coming in higher than what they had expected; and the price tag is around 5.2 million
dollars to which they’ve now had to cut back on some things. He added that they are
almost down to a bare bones facility and thinks they are going to have to live with
whatever the price tag is and make a decision at that point.
B. Youth Athletic Association Presidents & Connecting With Kids Joint Meeting - Mr.
Keprios informed the Park Board that they have a joint meeting coming up with the
Youth Athletic Association Presidents and some of the Connecting with Kids positional
leaders that is going to be hosted by the International Dairy Queen this Friday. He noted
that the association presidents would be discussing some common topics. He pointed out
that the Connecting With Kids positional leaders have a strong interest in the over-
programming of youth. They also want to know more about how the athletic associations
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are training their coaches with regards not just the sport itself but also in raising and
nurturing the youth. Mr. Keprios stated that they are all in it for the same mission which
is to develop youth. He noted that he feels the Connecting With Kids initiative can play
an important role in helping them accomplish that goal with some parental education. He
indicated that he thinks some of the best ways to raise kids when it comes to youth sport
is to try to find out how much is enough and how much is too much.
C. Grandview Square Park Development – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the
Grandview Square Park project is within their final 10% of fundraising, and the
Community Foundation is assisting with the final stage of fundraising. He noted that
their fundraising is only about $5,000 short of the goal. He indicated that he anticipates
that the Edina Community Foundation will approach the businesses of Grandview Square
to see if they can help fill that last void. He noted that he anticipates the construction to
be completed late August or early September.
III. TODD PARK HOCKEY RINK PROPOSAL
Mr. Klus gave an overview of the May Park Board meeting. He noted that residents who
live around Todd Park were asked to voice their comments regarding permanent boards
for an ice rink at Todd Park. He indicated that the Park Board heard from people who
were both for and against the project. Mr. Klus pointed out that the Edina Hockey
Association (EHA) was also invited to attend the Park Board meeting to address some of
their needs to which no one from the EHA attended. He explained that EHA has stated
that they do not want to be short one hockey rink in the community unless they absolutely
had to; however, they do need outdoor rinks especially because the program is continuing
to grow. Mr. Klus indicated that the Park Board tabled this item until the June Park
Board meeting.
Mr. Keprios explained that they have been working with EHA to look at developing a
rink at Lewis Park to which a copy of the outline is in the Park Board’s packet. He
pointed out that the three page Request For Proposal document was put together to
outline the concept of what the Park Board and the EHA has in mind to have a feasibility
study done on building a second rink at Lewis Park. He pointed that this would not be an
ordinary outdoor hockey rink but rather they would look at putting in artificial
refrigeration to which both rinks would then be maintained with an ice-resurfacing
machine. They would use the spare ice-resurfacing machine that they currently have at
Braemar Arena, however, they would need a place to store it to which they would need to
either build something or retrofit the existing shelter building. He noted that part of the
concept would also look at possibly building a structure over the second rink which
would be aesthetically pleasing as well as it could double as a picnic shelter during the
summer. Therefore, the EHA has agreed to pay for a feasibility study to which a Request
For Proposal was been sent out to 17 different architect engineering consulting firms.
Mr. Keprios noted that of the five proposals they received back the studies ranged
anywhere from accomplishing the project in seven to fifteen weeks and cost ranging from
$7,500 to $30,000. He stated that the information will be presented to the EHA to look
over and if they were to go with the low bid the study could be completed within seven
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weeks, which would be pertinent to tonight’s discussion. He commented that they may
find that it’s not even feasible to put in artificial refrigeration, however, if it can be
determined in less than seven weeks there would still be the possibility of putting in an
outdoor hockey rink at Lewis Park. They wouldn’t necessarily have to have refrigeration
and perhaps then Lewis Park could become the alternate site to the loss of Countryside
Park.
Mr. Keprios explained that the issue came about due to the removal of the hockey rink
boards at Countryside Park because of its age, deterioration, and unsalvageable condition.
The reason for not immediately replacing that hockey rink in its current location is due to
its improper orientation and poor sub-soil conditions. He noted that it is still staff’s
recommendation that a master plan be implemented prior to replacing an outdoor hockey
rink at Countryside Park. He noted that’s not to say they can’t put a hockey rink back at
Countryside Park in its current improper orientation, however, that’s not staff’s
recommendation because they feel it’s improper use of $40,000. Staff feels that money
would be money better spent to place the hockey rink at a different park until
Countryside Park can be done correctly with a master plan.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that he did list a few choices for the Park Board to consider.
Based on input from the EHA, his first recommendation would be to build a second rink
at Lewis Park which developed into a discussion of possibly putting in a fourth rink at
Braemar. However, after a meeting with the EHA and Larry Thayer, Braemar Arena
Manager, it was decided that would not be very feasible at this point. At that point it was
decided that a better option would be to pursue an artificial refrigeration rink at Lewis
Park, however, they don’t want to be left short one outdoor rink for the 2005-2006
season. Therefore, it was decided to look at another park, that being Todd Park.
Mr. Keprios indicated that at the May Park Board meeting the motion that was passed
was to table the issue because there were some concerns about the quality of ice at Todd
Park. He noted that Vince Cockriel, Park Superintendent, is here to try and answer some
of the questions and concerns.
Mr. Klus stated that it was also discussed that if a hockey rink is not put in at Todd Park
what they see the future being for Todd Park. He noted that it is a community park,
which needs to be used for the youth in the community. He commented that at some
point he does see this becoming an issue if there is not a hockey rink. In addition, one
option that could become debatable is whether or not the area would be turned into a
multi-purpose field. He noted that the city is always short on all-purpose fields that they
would need to find a use for that area that could benefit the youth in our community.
Mr. Klus stated that the Park Board would like to do all they can to recommend to the
City Council that they don’t lose a hockey rink this year. They really need to keep the
same number of hockey rinks as last year.
Mr. Cockriel explained that Todd Park is currently set up as one of the lower maintained
rinks because there are no hockey boards. Their maintenance schedule is set up around
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maintaining the hockey rinks first because the sweepers come through at 3:00 am.
Therefore, if they don’t get to the hockey rinks within the next couple of hours the snow
will heat up as they are blowing it from side to side against the boards to which it will
then start to freeze up. He explained that someone has to come right behind the sweeper
in order for the boards to get cleaned. Mr. Cockriel pointed out that they start on the
north end at Weber Park and work their way along the northern part of the city and
depending upon what time they get to Todd Park they sometimes need to skip that rink.
Therefore, because Todd Park is last on the list, they typically flood it with a tanker truck,
which in their experience using a tanker is not the way to get quality ice. He noted that
they typically have two people on the rink with a hose; however, not having boards to
flood against is not efficient use of manpower.
Mr. Cockriel informed the Park Board that the turf underneath the ice at Todd Park has
absolutely nothing to do with the quality of ice. He noted that ¾ of his staff have been
doing this for more than 20 years and they actually prefer Todd Park to Weber,
Strachauer, Cornelia School or Creek Valley. He added that all of those parks have high
water tables; however, the one thing Todd Park has that the others don’t is better
drainage. Therefore, making a good sheet of ice at Todd Park is absolutely no issue
whatsoever.
Mr. Sorem asked when were the previous boards taken out at Todd Park and what was
the reason for it. Mr. Cockriel replied that he believes it was around 1989 and the reason
was because of poor hockey board conditions, low usage and because it probably had the
worst shelter building in the city at that time. Mr. Sorem asked how many years was the
hockey rink there prior to it being taken down to which Mr. Cockriel replied at least a
dozen.
Richard Miller, 5340 Hollywood Road, indicated that he has lived on Vandervork or
Hollywood Road for the past 35 years and he cannot conceive how you can have a
recreation program in Minnesota without having a hockey rink. In addition, he also feels
that it increases the value of their neighborhood as well as it increases the value of his
own property by having an all-season recreational opportunity in their community.
Jim Fehrenbach, 8 Spur Road, indicated that he has two young boys ages 4 and 5. He
noted that he grew up in Roseville and was able to walk to the hockey rink where he
learned to play hockey, boot hockey, whiffle ball and football. He commented that he
stayed out of a lot of trouble by having that hockey rink. He added that he had a lot of
fun there and has some wonderful memories. He stated that he would really like to see a
hockey rink put in at Todd Park.
Pat Cronin, 23 Cooper Avenue, indicated that he lives in the Hilldale neighborhood and
for the record he clocked the distance and is 300 yards from Todd Park. He stated that no
one in his neighborhood was informed of what is currently happening at Todd Park and
that the Hilldale neighborhood does consider Todd Park to be their closest park. No one
from his neighborhood was at the May Park Board meeting because they were unaware
of what was happening. Mr. Cronin stressed that the Park Board needs to understand that
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the vocal minority of people who were at the May Park Board meeting does not represent
the neighborhood of Todd Park. Mr. Cronin pointed out that the neighborhood is
flourishing with kids. He noted that he has two young boys who use the park all year and
commented that it’s hard to play sports on a sheet of ice without boards and that’s the
reason for low attendance. If you build a rink they will come because there are hundreds
of kids in the area.
Mr. Cronin explained that he is also here to represent EHA. He noted that he has been a
hockey coach in the youth program for 11 years and that some of the best memories of
his life have been coaching and playing hockey. He stated that he doesn’t think this is an
EHA issue but rather a neighborhood issue. Mr. Cronin stated that he does have some
input from the EHA and read a letter from Hockey Board member Chips Gulbronson.
The letter read “I’m sorry that I’m unable to attend this meeting but I have an interest on
two levels as to why I would support adding hockey boards at Todd Park. I am a director
on the EHA and my main responsibilities include registration and manager liaison. The
program is continuing to grow and will exceed 1,200 skaters this year, what a great
program. We have over 450 mite players who are typically the skaters who play outside.
We are the largest association in the state as we continue to grow we will need more
facilities. My managers find it increasingly more difficult to schedule ice time and are
utilizing the existing outdoor rinks to their full capacity. The bottom line is we need
more options to provide our residents with a quality program. My interest on the second
level is that I am a resident of the Hilldale neighborhood and daily drive by Todd Park
and see the beautiful warming house, which our tax dollars have built that is severely
under-utilized. I grew up in Edina and believe the reason people continue to want to live
in our community is because of the schools and everything Edina has to offer. One of
those things is our great park and recreation department. Thank you. We need to keep
moving forward to provide residents with great facilities. This will continue to increase
property values and people will want to live in Edina. I think it would be in poor
judgment not to allow hockey boards to be installed at Todd Park”. Mr. Cronin added
that Ms. Gulbronson could not be here because of a soccer engagement with her kids.
Ken Cutter, 19 Circle West, indicated that they moved to Edina in 1989 in part because of
the proximity to Todd Park, which is approximately 300 yards. He stated that his
daughter started skating there when she was approximately 8 years old and he really liked
the fact that she could walk there without having to cross busy streets. He commented
that Todd Park is viewed as a neighborhood park for that Hilldale neighborhood it is an
important part of the neighborhood. He noted that his daughter was disappointed when
the quality of ice deteriorated rapidly as she got older. However, this is something that
does attract people to the neighborhood. He added that the park was also utilized by her
older brother as they were growing up.
Doug Hall, 4501 Parkside Lane, indicated that he has lived in his house since 1980,
which is very close to the park. He noted that he grew up playing hockey in Edina and
the one difference he has seen over the years is that the parks are being used by more
families. It used to be that the hockey rinks were only used by an older group of boys
and that families weren’t around. However, what he sees now is that after a fresh snow
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he sees families bringing their children to the Park and spending hours there. Mr. Hall
stated that if there are ice quality and utilization issues then he thinks the Park Board
needs to address the whole family and not just the narrow segment of the hockey
community.
Jeff Bisson, 9 Cooper, indicated that he has lived in this area a better part of his almost 40
years. He noted that Todd Park had a skating rink in the early 70’s because he was
approximately two years old. He stated that at that time the park was called Division
Park and commented that a very important series of experiences in his life happened at
the hockey rink at Todd Park. He commented that he was at the hockey rink with his
brothers and their friends all of the time unsupervised and it was the warming house
attendant who watched over them. Mr. Bisson noted that all of his recollections are that
it was a family experience and a family place. He pointed out that the demographics of
the neighborhood have changed since 1989 because now there are a lot more kids.
Colleen Lucke, 15 Cooper Avenue, indicated that she is in favor of having a hockey rink
even though her kids do not play hockey. However, her family loves to play pick-up
hockey. She explained that for the past three years her family has been part of a group
that reserves the Highland Park skating rink every Sunday night for their families to play
hockey and have treats. Ms. Lucke stated that skating has been a big part of their social
life and they’ve never had a problem even at the parks that are highly used for hockey.
Therefore, they would love to see a hockey rink exist at Todd Park because it would be a
nice place for families of all ages to enjoy.
Michelle Sit, 23 Circle West, indicated that she has three kids and they enjoy the park all
year. She noted that she drives by Todd Park on her way to other hockey rinks within
Edina for her hockey players. She stated that her 7 year-old daughter had her birthday
party at Todd Park and commented that they would love to have skating parties and boot
hockey parties at Todd Park to get to know their neighbors better. Therefore, it would be
great to be able to use a hockey rink at Todd Park during the winter months.
Jeff Bowers, 12 Cooper Avenue, indicated that he moved to Edina last summer and on
one of the first days of winter he thought it would be a great place to take his 2 ½ year-
old daughter to go skating. However, the warming house was closed so they sat in the
snow and put on their skates and needless to say they didn’t last too long because she was
freezing. He noted that it’s such a beautiful facility and from a cost standpoint there
really should be a hockey rink, his family would definitely use it. In addition, he thinks
having the older kids playing hockey there is a great thing, it keeps them out of trouble.
Mr. Bowers stated that it would be great to have a neighborhood park flourish all year.
Nancy Hall, 4501 Parkside Lane, indicated that she lives right across the street from Todd
Park and doesn’t understand why no one has been using the rink that is there. She noted
that she hears the trucks every day at 6:30 am so it is definitely getting sprayed. She
stated that she doesn’t understand why people would now want start to use the rink just
because of hockey boards.
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John Peyton, 27 Cooper Circle, indicated that he has been involved with hockey for a lot
of years and has a couple of kids who play hockey. He noted that he drives by the rink a
lot and no one is using it, however, having grown up in front of a hockey rink he knows
that if you build it they will come. People don’t want to play hockey on an open sheet of
ice. It would be a great benefit if a hockey rink were put in at Todd Park. Mr. Peyton
pointed out that when he moved to the area in 1989 there weren’t very many kids but
now there are a ton of young kids who would use that rink.
Neal Campion, 4436 Vandevork Avenue, indicated that he thinks there are a lot of
concerns from people who live by the park that it’s not going to be maintained the other
42 to 44 weeks of the year. He noted that they have all driven by and looked at
permanent hockey boards and the way they are maintained and it does become a real eye
sore. He stated that he remembers in 1989 a comment was made that from that time
forward any park with boards would need to have a four-season surface. Therefore, what
is really being talked about is taking a significant part of the park and it would be used for
8 to 10 weeks and for the other 42 to 44 weeks there would be no use to speak of for that
portion of the park. He pointed out that if temporary boards were put up and taken down
each season they would have back that portion of the park when it’s not the hockey
season. In other words the majority of the year they would have the use of that area. He
noted that it seems rather than spend money to put up and take down the boards each
season you’re doing it the cheap way by leaving them up all year. Mr. Campion stated
that the boards are going to be neglected and vandalized and 10 to 20 years from now you
are going to have to put up new boards because these will have then been destroyed. He
explained that his thoughts are if temporary boards are put up there will probably be less
resistance from the neighborhood. He added they could charge a fee for the people who
use the rink, the EHA. Mr. Campion commented that if there are 350 kids in the mite
program why not put a surcharge on them and they can pay for putting up and taking
down the removable hockey boards.
Mr. Campion indicated that a comment was recently made that Todd Park is 30 plus
acres. He informed the Park Board that a couple of people did measure the park and
there is approximately 7 acres of useable open space. Therefore, it’s not as large as they
were lead to believe. He pointed out that this is a very busy park and it’s good to see a lot
of kids in the area, however, to take 42 to 44 weeks of the year seems to him to not be
very efficient use of the area.
Molly Cronin, 11 Cooper Avenue, indicated that she grew up in a house that backed up to
Walnut Ridge Park. She explained that when her parents built that house in 1984 they
knew the park was there. She noted one of the reasons they loved to be there was so
during the winter they could see all of the skaters. She commented that it’s not as if they
moved in not knowing that these things existed. They knew that if they wanted to get a
view of the beauty and open space they would have to deal with the people working very
hard at 3:00 am on those cold winter mornings. Ms. Cronin pointed out that during the
summer while growing up next to Walnut Ridge Park they played inside of the hockey
boards all of the time because it provided a great sort of boundary for them to play. They
never considered it an eyesore. She commented that as a mother of young children she
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would love it if there were boards so she wouldn’t have to worry about flying pucks
hitting her children.
Al Carlson, 4424 Vandervork, indicated that if you look at the actual useable open space
of Todd Park it’s probably one of the most developed parks in Edina. He stated that
personally he is not opposed to the hockey rink as long as the boards were removed
during the summer months. He noted that the City of Minneapolis is able to remove their
boards. He added that when he was growing up they played soccer, t-ball, etc., in open
spaces and fields. Therefore, he is in favor of a hockey rink if the boards were removed
during the summer months.
Kathleen Carter, 4500 Vandervork Ave., indicated that she grew up in Edina and lives
directly across from the park, which at that time was called Division Park. She noted that
there are a lot more things at the park now compared to when she was growing up. Now
there is a walking path, tennis courts, new warming house, basketball court, softball field
and skating rink. Ms. Carter stated that living across the street from the park she is
concerned that if the boards are left up all year it would really take away what little green
space there is in the park. She added that it will also cause additional traffic and at some
point it’s going to require a parking lot. She stated that this may not be an issue for the
Park Board but it’s going to become an issue for someone’s committee because of the
Park Board’s actions. She stated that she would be against the permanent hockey facility
based on the limited acreage of the park.
Tim Meehan, 5229 Hollywood, noted that when the Park Board was talking about Lewis
Park and Countryside Park he heard things like feasibility study and bringing in an
architect to do a complete study so that they do it right. However, when you talk about
Todd Park it’s lets just slap it in and see what happens. He indicated that no disrespect to
the Park Superintendent but he’s around the park every day and right now there is
standing water all over the park. There are ducks and geese swimming in the 7 acres of
green space that has been talked about. Mr. Meehan commented that just because they
are opposed to having the rink doesn’t mean they are against family use of the park. He
noted that what they are talking about is the best use of the park and he has now heard a
couple of people say that having a hockey rink doesn’t make sense for the best use of the
park. If they want the park to be for the youth then there needs to be some open space.
He pointed out that Todd Park is the smallest park with this many facilities in Edina. He
noted that area where the potential hockey rink is proposed would be abutted directly on
all four sides by housing to which there is no other park like this within the city. Mr.
Meehan indicated that if the Park Board is going to pursue this he thinks what they are
really doing is perpetuating poor management of the park system. He noted that mistakes
have been made at Countryside Park and they don’t want the same thing to happen at
Todd Park because it really is an eyesore. Mr. Meehan stated that he thinks the Park
Board should step back and spend more time on this. He noted that he appreciates that
they are asking for the community’s input because he thinks there are a lot of people here
who have years and years of experience that are on both sides of the equation. Therefore,
he feels more discussion needs to take place on this issue. Mr. Meehan stressed to the
Park Board that they are not a sports facility board and that there is a benefit to having
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green space in a park that does add value to the community. Not every little space needs
to be developed.
Mr. Cronin asked how much money has been invested in the Todd Park warming house
to which Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t have a specific amount because the four new
shelter buildings were built with one contract. However, he would say to build Todd
Park it cost approximately $200,000 and $250,000. Mr. Cronin stated that he thinks it’s
an absolutely beautiful building and for some people having a hockey rink is an eyesore
but for others having a rink is a thing of beauty. He pointed out that he would like to
contradict a little bit on what Mr. Meehan stated earlier in that he thinks it would be poor
management of the park system to develop Todd Park. He stated that he thinks it’s
almost the opposite in that if the city has invested all of this capital into a structure and
they are asking to invest just a tiny bit more to make it functional all year he feels it
would be poor management not to build the rink.
Al Carlson, 4424 Vandervork Avenue, indicated that the neighborhood received a letter
before the winter season basically saying that the building was going to be open a limited
number of hours because of budget constraints. The letter asked for input from the
residents on what evenings and time periods they would like to see the building open.
The letter did not say anything about low usage at the park. He commented that if the
city can afford to man a warming house seven days a week then they could probably
afford to man it now seven days a week to which it would be used a lot more then it
presently is.
Katie Meehan, 5229 Hollywood Road, indicated that she is very proud of the Todd Park
community and noted that several years ago the neighborhood started “Street Greets”
which is where they invite the community and have bands, food, games, prizes, etc., it is
very family/youth oriented. She noted that each event has been attended by at least 60
people. She pointed out that the park is surrounded by a lot of houses and they watch out
for each other and watch over all of the kids. She commented that they have also
engaged the seniors who live at the Brookside apartment building because they recognize
that it’s important for seniors to interact with youth and families and that’s of value. Ms.
Meehan noted that they also united to remove buckthorn. She stressed that the Todd Park
neighborhood is very community oriented and she doesn’t like being cast the “not in my
backyard” and that they’re not for the youth and they don’t want this. She explained that
she is all in favor of hockey; she’s not in favor of permanent boards. She would like to
see them taken down in the summer so they are not poorly maintained.
Mr. Cockriel pointed out that you typically don’t see the smaller communities putting up
and taking down hockey boards. He noted that he believes that St. Paul and some areas
of Minneapolis and Hopkins still use portable hockey boards. He explained that the issue
with portable boards is of course it costs taxpayer dollars to put them up and take them
each year as well as there is the storage issue. In addition there’s a safety issue because
after the first year the portable boards are never the same because they become uneven
and warped. Because the ground moves the board section that is put up one year doesn’t
necessarily fit on that same section of ground the next year. Lastly, because they are
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moved so much they end up with a shelf life that is less than typical hockey boards. Mr.
Cockriel commented that people from all over the United States ask for the blueprints of
Edina’s hockey boards. He indicated that the reason is because they stay true. The
ground moves but the boards move with it in a serpentine manner and not an uneven
manner like some of the boards you will see in Minneapolis and St. Paul. He stated that
it makes no difference; however, he sees it as a waste of manpower and maintenance to
put them up and take them down each year.
Mr. Klus asked Mr. Cockriel to talk about the maintenance program of the boards to
which Mr. Cockriel replied that they typically try to replace the boards every ten years.
He pointed out that they don’t paint them anymore because that was an issue with the
puck marks. He noted that all of the newer rinks are left the green treated look, which is
natural to the setting. Mr. Cockriel stated that he doesn’t doubt that there’s an occasion
when the weeds grow up around the insides of boards because of standing water which is
evident in most hockey rinks, however, he’s not going to force his staff to put on chest
waders and weed whip around them. Mr. Cockriel commented that they do have three
rinks that have solid bases and noted that all three of them do get some summer use.
Mr. Fronek indicated that from what he gathers there seems to be a limited number of ice
skating rinks but there also seems to be a limited amount of green space in the parks. He
asked Mr. Keprios to speak a little bit about how to balance that as well as how he came
up with his recommendation. Mr. Keprios replied that how this all got started was
through the Edina Hockey Association’s input and concern over reducing the total
number of outdoor hockey rinks. Mr. Keprios indicated that based on a lot of input from
the community, to which he applauds the Park Board for listening to the community, he
noted that it would be nice if they could come to some kind of a conclusion where they
could put another outdoor hockey rink in the system so that they don’t have a net loss
compared to what they had for the 2004-2005 season. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks if
they allow EHA to review the Request For Proposals responses that were received and let
them iron out whether or not they want to move forward with it. Hopefully by the
September Park Board meeting staff will have a recommendation of where to go. Mr.
Keprios explained that there is still the option of putting in a second hockey rink at Lewis
Park without going the full nine yards and spending thousands of dollars to build an
artificial rink not knowing where the money is going to come from. Therefore, his
recommendation is to wait until the feasibility study is completed and EHA makes a
decision on which direction they want to go. At that time he thinks the Park Board
should address the issue of where an outdoor rink should go. Mr. Keprios stressed again
that staff’s recommendation is to not put a hockey rink back in at Countryside Park in the
wrong orientation. He commented that he would like to find the funding to establish a
master plan for Countryside Park regardless of what is decided regarding outdoor hockey
rinks.
Mr. Keprios explained that Edina is short green space and we are a fully developed and
landlocked community. He noted that by listening to the Todd Park neighborhood he
thinks by not putting in a rink it would give them the opportunity to upgrade that space
and put some dollars into beautifying the neighborhood so it’s even greener and better for
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a multiple of sports during the warm weather months. He commented that from what
he’s heard the neighborhood thinks this would be a fairly good compromise. However,
they would probably end up with more scheduled events during the summer but at least
they wouldn’t have to look at the hockey boards during the warm weather months. Mr.
Keprios stressed that he doesn’t think the Park Board should make a decision on where to
put a rink until EHA has had a chance to review the proposals and find out what the
results of the feasibility study are.
Mr. Sorem indicated that he’s confused because there seems to be a contradiction because
if the area is below the water table and there is standing water he would be concerned
about the grass quality for sports. It’s already been stated that the quality of ice would be
fine. He commented that he doesn’t know what the cost would be to renovate that type of
field to make it a good field like Lewis Park. Everyone wants green space but it doesn’t
appear to be great green space. Mr. Keprios responded that is a fair comment. He noted
that they might just have to put significant dollars into Todd Park as we have done at
Lewis Park and Braemar Park athletic fields if that’s the direction the Park Board wants
to go. He stated that to do it right so it drains off immediately after rain they are looking
at some significant dollars we would also need the watershed district’s blessing to alter
the grade. Mr. Keprios pointed out that he thinks they can at least slightly improve the
area if they were to take out the ice rink.
Ms. Presthus asked whether or not they would put in a hard surface area so that it would
be useable during the summer for rollerblading, roller hockey, etc. or would it be left
green grass. Mr. Keprios replied that the plan all along has been to just have grass. Mr.
Sorem asked if a hard surface could be put in after the fact to which Mr. Cockriel replied
that as long as they get grade right before they put up the boards there should be no
problem.
Mr. O’Connell indicated that he has been very persuaded by tonight’s testimony and
thinks what he heard Mr. Keprios say is he would like to delay this vote and wait until
EHA has had a chance to look at the proposals. He stated that the Todd Park
neighborhood has a rink that is very close to them and it’s a long way from Todd Park to
Lewis Park and they are talking about a lot of small children in the neighborhood. He
noted that the population is also increasing with young people who will be using the park.
Mr. Keprios commented that he thinks it’s worthy to mention the reason why this was
proposed. It is not because the neighborhood came to the Park Board requesting this park
amenity, it’s because EHA came to them and said they don’t want a net loss of one
outdoor hockey rink. He noted that at that time staff came up with various options to
which Lewis Park was his first recommendation based on input from the EHA. However,
the Park Board chose not to go there and wanted to go to Todd Park instead because the
thought was that it would be more difficult for the non-residents to find. Mr. O’Connell
indicated that he would strongly be in favor of having a roof covered situation at Lewis
Park to relieve some the pressure on Braemar rather than build a fourth sheet of ice. He
stressed that with refrigerated ice on a permanent and covered surface is going to have a
much longer life as far as the season goes.
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Mr. Johnson commented that he agrees with Mr. O’Connell in that he also was under the
impression that Lewis and Todd Park are two separate issues. He noted that his
understanding is that Lewis Park would be done in place of a fourth sheet of ice at
Braemar. However, the Todd Park rink is to replace the rink at Countryside Park so there
would not be a net loss to EHA’s program. Therefore, he’s not sure why EHA’s request
for proposal time frame has anything to do with this. Mr. Keprios explained that the
reason why it would play a role is because if EHA decides after their deliberations that
this is something that would not be doable they could still put in an outdoor hockey rink
without refrigeration. Mr. Johnson stated that he thinks if they do put in a second rink at
Lewis Park they should also put one in at Todd Park because they probably could use two
more outdoor rinks because of the lack of ice time that’s available for the kids in this
community.
Mr. Johnson indicated that in regards to green space issues if they place a new field at
Todd Park it would still increase traffic five to six months out of the year where with a
hockey rink it would be approximately two months out of the year. Mr. Johnson stressed
that the parking issue would definitely then come into play. He commented that one of
the big issues of the neighborhood was traffic and parking problems. He stated that his
main concern is to either move the rink to Todd Park or put it back at Countryside Park.
Mr. Sorem stated that he’s a little confused because it seems that some of the people who
were at last month’s meeting who were against the rink are now not so much against the
rink but are against permanent hockey boards. Therefore he thinks they just need to
discuss removable boards versus permanent boards. Mr. Sorem pointed out that the
numbers in the youth hockey program are just staggering as well as he will attest that he
has had a difficult time finding an open hockey rink on Saturdays and Sundays.
Therefore, maybe they need to look at putting in additional rinks because right now they
are talking about trying to find a place where they can replace the Countryside rink,
which is a must in his mind. Mr. Sorem commented that he understands and appreciates
all of the concerns for and against the hockey rink at Todd Park. However, their job is to
look at the needs of the community as a whole and Todd Park is a community-based
park. He noted that it just makes too much sense to him to replace the rink at
Countryside Park to Todd Park. Edina’s park maintenance staff is by far the best in the
state if not the Country.
Jeff Sorem MOVED TO BUILD A PERMANENT STRUCTURE RINK AT TODD
PARK. Ray O’Connell SECONDED.
Ms. Presthus indicated that they have not discussed the parking issue to which she has
some pretty strong concerns about kids darting between cars and not providing proper
parking. She asked since the neighborhood seems negative about having asphalt parking
surface have they ever considered using pavers for a parking surface instead of putting in
asphalt. Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t believe the city has any paver style parking
lots in the park system. Mr. Cockriel stated that they do have what they call a GEO grid
road surface at the Sherwood pump house at Sherwood Park and one also over at
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Browndale Park. However, the disadvantage of that is if the soil conditions underneath
cannot handle that kind of traffic you end up with the pavers shifting and coming up and
actually being torn up. In addition when they are plowed during the wintertime it
exposes that grass to the hard frost to which you almost have to start over again every
spring as far as the grass goes. Mr. Keprios stated that he personally doesn’t support that
approach for a parking lot. If the park needs a parking lot, it should be an asphalt parking
lot.
Mr. Klus commented that his thought on this motion is he’s in favor of an ice rink at
Todd Park, however, he’s not so sure that a decision needs to be made tonight. He noted
that they could put this off until August after they’ve received a little bit more feedback.
He indicated that he thinks that would still give them enough time to make a decision and
still be able to put up a rink if they agree to do it at Todd Park. Mr. Keprios asked Mr.
Cockriel how much time his staff would need to build a hockey rink to which Mr.
Cockriel replied if a decision were made by the middle of August they would still be
okay. Mr. Johnson stated that he would disagree because there have already been two
meetings with open discussion and they have already heard from everyone who has an
opinion. If they table it for another month he really doesn’t know that it would make that
much of a difference.
Mr. Sorem commented that he would assume that a little pleasure rink would go along
with it to which Mr. Cockriel replied that is correct. Mr. Keprios added that it would also
require the installation of some new lighting.
IN FAVOR: Jeff Johnson, Karla Sitek, Todd Fronek, Linda Presthus, Jessica Selleck,
Jeff Sorem, Ray O’Connell
AGAINST: George Klus
Mr. Keprios stated that this will be on the August 2nd City Council agenda. He also
indicated that the Park Board minutes are published on the website after they’ve been
approved. However, he will make an exception this time and publish the unapproved
Park Board minutes.
IV. WATER QUALITY PRESENTATION – CONSERVATION LEAGUE OF EDINA
Jan Goldman-Carter, 4504 Casco Avenue, a member of the Conservation League of
Edina, gave the Park Board a power point presentation. She indicated that they are
working in a partnership with the Edina Community Foundation, the Nine Mile Creek
Watershed District and the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District.
Mr. Klus stated that the Park Board appreciates all of their work and what they are doing
within the city.
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V. OTHER
A. Arneson Acres - Mr. Keprios indicated that during the construction project that is
currently going on at Arneson Acres they have learned that the feed line that serves the
fire suppression system at Arneson Acres is undersized and always has been. He noted
that, if they were to have a fire, it probably would not have the pressure needed to save
the building. Therefore, the fire marshal has asked since it is already under construction
would it be possible to pipe in the proper line. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Cockriel how
much it would cost to do that to which Mr. Cockriel replied he would guess
approximately $15,000. Mr. Keprios asked if he could get the Park Board’s blessing to
utilize the Developer’s Fund. He noted currently there is approximately $90,000 in the
Developer’s Fund. Mr. Keprios explained that before any action is taken there is another
item that is coming their way. He stated that they have received a formal complaint from
the attorney’s office regarding proper ADA accessible parking and access to the Edina
Aquatic Center. What is currently in place may not be ADA compliant. Therefore, they
are working very closely and positively with them. Mr. Keprios noted that they have
come up with a plan that would be a great fix without significantly altering the character
of the park. They would basically create a small parking lot just off of 66th Street
immediately to the south entrance of the bathhouse. However, the price tag is going to be
significantly larger than $15,000 it will probably be closer to $40,000. Mr. Keprios noted
that he wanted to the give the Park Board a heads up. Mr. Keprios stated what he is
asking for tonight is the Park Board’s blessing to approve approximately $15,000 to
$20,000 out of the Developer’s Fund to take care of the problem at Arneson Acres. Mr.
Cockriel stressed that timing is of the essence with this project because they have to do it
while 70th Street is torn up. If they go in and do it later it’s going to be more expensive.
Ray O’Connell MOVED TO APPROVE USE OF THE DEVELOPER’S FUND TO
PAY FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF THE PROPER WATER
SERVICE LINE TO ARNESON ACRES PARK.
Karla Sitek SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNAMIMOUSLY.
B. Centennial Lakes Amphitheatre - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the
dedication of the Maetzold Amphitheatre at Centennial Lakes will be this Sunday at 7:00
pm followed by the Sousa Band Concert. Mr. Keprios commented that for Mayor
Maetzold has long been a strong supporter of parks and recreation and he encourages
everyone to attend this special event in his honor.
C. Future Agenda Items – Mr. Fronek asked to have the Countryside Park master plan
put on the agenda for the Park Board to start to discuss.
D. Mr. O’Connell commented that when he attended an interesting meeting on May 14th
with the Conservation League that did a bird study along with Wood Lake Nature Center
staff and Bob Atol. He stated that Braemar Golf Course is now certified by the Audubon
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Society for meeting the 7 main criteria established by the Audubon Society. Mr.
O’Connell also stated that Braemar Golf Course contributes to good water quality
because of the things they’ve implemented since about 1997.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
Linda Presthus MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:00 P.M. Jeff Sorem
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.