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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-06-14 Park Board Minutes 1 EDINA PARK BOARD 7:00 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS EDINA CITY HALL JUNE 14, 2005 _____________________________ MEMBERS PRESENT: George Klus, Jeff Johnson, Linda Presthus, Todd Fronek, Jeff Sorem, Karla Sitek, Ray O’Connell, Jessica Selleck MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Damman, Andy Finsness, Mike Weiss STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Vince Cockriel OTHERS PRESENT: John Peyton, Jim Fehrenbach, Sue Kelly, Jan Bernatz, Charlie Kelly, Tim Creajan, Jeff Bowers, Tim Campion, Molly Cronin, Pat Cronin, Nick Cronin, Kathleen Carter, Greta Simondet, Katie Meehan, Tim Meehan, Corrin Carlson, Al Carlson, Brad Benson, Ken Cutler, Craig Flom, Neal Campion, Nancy Hall, Doug Hall, Randy Sawnstrom, Jill Hartman, Albert Walla, Bill Reber, Bob Kaiser, Jon Moon, Julie Risser, Jean White, Heidi Dorfmeister, Jeannie Hanson ____________________________ I. APPROVAL OF THE MAY 10, 2005 PARK BOARD MINUTES Linda Presthus MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAY 10, 2005 PARK BOARD MINUTES. Jeff Sorem SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED. II. UPDATES A. Gymnasium Project – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that they are moving along on the gymnasium project. He noted that the School Board has learned that bids are coming in higher than what they had expected; and the price tag is around 5.2 million dollars to which they’ve now had to cut back on some things. He added that they are almost down to a bare bones facility and thinks they are going to have to live with whatever the price tag is and make a decision at that point. B. Youth Athletic Association Presidents & Connecting With Kids Joint Meeting - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that they have a joint meeting coming up with the Youth Athletic Association Presidents and some of the Connecting with Kids positional leaders that is going to be hosted by the International Dairy Queen this Friday. He noted that the association presidents would be discussing some common topics. He pointed out that the Connecting With Kids positional leaders have a strong interest in the over- programming of youth. They also want to know more about how the athletic associations 2 are training their coaches with regards not just the sport itself but also in raising and nurturing the youth. Mr. Keprios stated that they are all in it for the same mission which is to develop youth. He noted that he feels the Connecting With Kids initiative can play an important role in helping them accomplish that goal with some parental education. He indicated that he thinks some of the best ways to raise kids when it comes to youth sport is to try to find out how much is enough and how much is too much. C. Grandview Square Park Development – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the Grandview Square Park project is within their final 10% of fundraising, and the Community Foundation is assisting with the final stage of fundraising. He noted that their fundraising is only about $5,000 short of the goal. He indicated that he anticipates that the Edina Community Foundation will approach the businesses of Grandview Square to see if they can help fill that last void. He noted that he anticipates the construction to be completed late August or early September. III. TODD PARK HOCKEY RINK PROPOSAL Mr. Klus gave an overview of the May Park Board meeting. He noted that residents who live around Todd Park were asked to voice their comments regarding permanent boards for an ice rink at Todd Park. He indicated that the Park Board heard from people who were both for and against the project. Mr. Klus pointed out that the Edina Hockey Association (EHA) was also invited to attend the Park Board meeting to address some of their needs to which no one from the EHA attended. He explained that EHA has stated that they do not want to be short one hockey rink in the community unless they absolutely had to; however, they do need outdoor rinks especially because the program is continuing to grow. Mr. Klus indicated that the Park Board tabled this item until the June Park Board meeting. Mr. Keprios explained that they have been working with EHA to look at developing a rink at Lewis Park to which a copy of the outline is in the Park Board’s packet. He pointed out that the three page Request For Proposal document was put together to outline the concept of what the Park Board and the EHA has in mind to have a feasibility study done on building a second rink at Lewis Park. He pointed that this would not be an ordinary outdoor hockey rink but rather they would look at putting in artificial refrigeration to which both rinks would then be maintained with an ice-resurfacing machine. They would use the spare ice-resurfacing machine that they currently have at Braemar Arena, however, they would need a place to store it to which they would need to either build something or retrofit the existing shelter building. He noted that part of the concept would also look at possibly building a structure over the second rink which would be aesthetically pleasing as well as it could double as a picnic shelter during the summer. Therefore, the EHA has agreed to pay for a feasibility study to which a Request For Proposal was been sent out to 17 different architect engineering consulting firms. Mr. Keprios noted that of the five proposals they received back the studies ranged anywhere from accomplishing the project in seven to fifteen weeks and cost ranging from $7,500 to $30,000. He stated that the information will be presented to the EHA to look over and if they were to go with the low bid the study could be completed within seven 3 weeks, which would be pertinent to tonight’s discussion. He commented that they may find that it’s not even feasible to put in artificial refrigeration, however, if it can be determined in less than seven weeks there would still be the possibility of putting in an outdoor hockey rink at Lewis Park. They wouldn’t necessarily have to have refrigeration and perhaps then Lewis Park could become the alternate site to the loss of Countryside Park. Mr. Keprios explained that the issue came about due to the removal of the hockey rink boards at Countryside Park because of its age, deterioration, and unsalvageable condition. The reason for not immediately replacing that hockey rink in its current location is due to its improper orientation and poor sub-soil conditions. He noted that it is still staff’s recommendation that a master plan be implemented prior to replacing an outdoor hockey rink at Countryside Park. He noted that’s not to say they can’t put a hockey rink back at Countryside Park in its current improper orientation, however, that’s not staff’s recommendation because they feel it’s improper use of $40,000. Staff feels that money would be money better spent to place the hockey rink at a different park until Countryside Park can be done correctly with a master plan. Mr. Keprios pointed out that he did list a few choices for the Park Board to consider. Based on input from the EHA, his first recommendation would be to build a second rink at Lewis Park which developed into a discussion of possibly putting in a fourth rink at Braemar. However, after a meeting with the EHA and Larry Thayer, Braemar Arena Manager, it was decided that would not be very feasible at this point. At that point it was decided that a better option would be to pursue an artificial refrigeration rink at Lewis Park, however, they don’t want to be left short one outdoor rink for the 2005-2006 season. Therefore, it was decided to look at another park, that being Todd Park. Mr. Keprios indicated that at the May Park Board meeting the motion that was passed was to table the issue because there were some concerns about the quality of ice at Todd Park. He noted that Vince Cockriel, Park Superintendent, is here to try and answer some of the questions and concerns. Mr. Klus stated that it was also discussed that if a hockey rink is not put in at Todd Park what they see the future being for Todd Park. He noted that it is a community park, which needs to be used for the youth in the community. He commented that at some point he does see this becoming an issue if there is not a hockey rink. In addition, one option that could become debatable is whether or not the area would be turned into a multi-purpose field. He noted that the city is always short on all-purpose fields that they would need to find a use for that area that could benefit the youth in our community. Mr. Klus stated that the Park Board would like to do all they can to recommend to the City Council that they don’t lose a hockey rink this year. They really need to keep the same number of hockey rinks as last year. Mr. Cockriel explained that Todd Park is currently set up as one of the lower maintained rinks because there are no hockey boards. Their maintenance schedule is set up around 4 maintaining the hockey rinks first because the sweepers come through at 3:00 am. Therefore, if they don’t get to the hockey rinks within the next couple of hours the snow will heat up as they are blowing it from side to side against the boards to which it will then start to freeze up. He explained that someone has to come right behind the sweeper in order for the boards to get cleaned. Mr. Cockriel pointed out that they start on the north end at Weber Park and work their way along the northern part of the city and depending upon what time they get to Todd Park they sometimes need to skip that rink. Therefore, because Todd Park is last on the list, they typically flood it with a tanker truck, which in their experience using a tanker is not the way to get quality ice. He noted that they typically have two people on the rink with a hose; however, not having boards to flood against is not efficient use of manpower. Mr. Cockriel informed the Park Board that the turf underneath the ice at Todd Park has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of ice. He noted that ¾ of his staff have been doing this for more than 20 years and they actually prefer Todd Park to Weber, Strachauer, Cornelia School or Creek Valley. He added that all of those parks have high water tables; however, the one thing Todd Park has that the others don’t is better drainage. Therefore, making a good sheet of ice at Todd Park is absolutely no issue whatsoever. Mr. Sorem asked when were the previous boards taken out at Todd Park and what was the reason for it. Mr. Cockriel replied that he believes it was around 1989 and the reason was because of poor hockey board conditions, low usage and because it probably had the worst shelter building in the city at that time. Mr. Sorem asked how many years was the hockey rink there prior to it being taken down to which Mr. Cockriel replied at least a dozen. Richard Miller, 5340 Hollywood Road, indicated that he has lived on Vandervork or Hollywood Road for the past 35 years and he cannot conceive how you can have a recreation program in Minnesota without having a hockey rink. In addition, he also feels that it increases the value of their neighborhood as well as it increases the value of his own property by having an all-season recreational opportunity in their community. Jim Fehrenbach, 8 Spur Road, indicated that he has two young boys ages 4 and 5. He noted that he grew up in Roseville and was able to walk to the hockey rink where he learned to play hockey, boot hockey, whiffle ball and football. He commented that he stayed out of a lot of trouble by having that hockey rink. He added that he had a lot of fun there and has some wonderful memories. He stated that he would really like to see a hockey rink put in at Todd Park. Pat Cronin, 23 Cooper Avenue, indicated that he lives in the Hilldale neighborhood and for the record he clocked the distance and is 300 yards from Todd Park. He stated that no one in his neighborhood was informed of what is currently happening at Todd Park and that the Hilldale neighborhood does consider Todd Park to be their closest park. No one from his neighborhood was at the May Park Board meeting because they were unaware of what was happening. Mr. Cronin stressed that the Park Board needs to understand that 5 the vocal minority of people who were at the May Park Board meeting does not represent the neighborhood of Todd Park. Mr. Cronin pointed out that the neighborhood is flourishing with kids. He noted that he has two young boys who use the park all year and commented that it’s hard to play sports on a sheet of ice without boards and that’s the reason for low attendance. If you build a rink they will come because there are hundreds of kids in the area. Mr. Cronin explained that he is also here to represent EHA. He noted that he has been a hockey coach in the youth program for 11 years and that some of the best memories of his life have been coaching and playing hockey. He stated that he doesn’t think this is an EHA issue but rather a neighborhood issue. Mr. Cronin stated that he does have some input from the EHA and read a letter from Hockey Board member Chips Gulbronson. The letter read “I’m sorry that I’m unable to attend this meeting but I have an interest on two levels as to why I would support adding hockey boards at Todd Park. I am a director on the EHA and my main responsibilities include registration and manager liaison. The program is continuing to grow and will exceed 1,200 skaters this year, what a great program. We have over 450 mite players who are typically the skaters who play outside. We are the largest association in the state as we continue to grow we will need more facilities. My managers find it increasingly more difficult to schedule ice time and are utilizing the existing outdoor rinks to their full capacity. The bottom line is we need more options to provide our residents with a quality program. My interest on the second level is that I am a resident of the Hilldale neighborhood and daily drive by Todd Park and see the beautiful warming house, which our tax dollars have built that is severely under-utilized. I grew up in Edina and believe the reason people continue to want to live in our community is because of the schools and everything Edina has to offer. One of those things is our great park and recreation department. Thank you. We need to keep moving forward to provide residents with great facilities. This will continue to increase property values and people will want to live in Edina. I think it would be in poor judgment not to allow hockey boards to be installed at Todd Park”. Mr. Cronin added that Ms. Gulbronson could not be here because of a soccer engagement with her kids. Ken Cutter, 19 Circle West, indicated that they moved to Edina in 1989 in part because of the proximity to Todd Park, which is approximately 300 yards. He stated that his daughter started skating there when she was approximately 8 years old and he really liked the fact that she could walk there without having to cross busy streets. He commented that Todd Park is viewed as a neighborhood park for that Hilldale neighborhood it is an important part of the neighborhood. He noted that his daughter was disappointed when the quality of ice deteriorated rapidly as she got older. However, this is something that does attract people to the neighborhood. He added that the park was also utilized by her older brother as they were growing up. Doug Hall, 4501 Parkside Lane, indicated that he has lived in his house since 1980, which is very close to the park. He noted that he grew up playing hockey in Edina and the one difference he has seen over the years is that the parks are being used by more families. It used to be that the hockey rinks were only used by an older group of boys and that families weren’t around. However, what he sees now is that after a fresh snow 6 he sees families bringing their children to the Park and spending hours there. Mr. Hall stated that if there are ice quality and utilization issues then he thinks the Park Board needs to address the whole family and not just the narrow segment of the hockey community. Jeff Bisson, 9 Cooper, indicated that he has lived in this area a better part of his almost 40 years. He noted that Todd Park had a skating rink in the early 70’s because he was approximately two years old. He stated that at that time the park was called Division Park and commented that a very important series of experiences in his life happened at the hockey rink at Todd Park. He commented that he was at the hockey rink with his brothers and their friends all of the time unsupervised and it was the warming house attendant who watched over them. Mr. Bisson noted that all of his recollections are that it was a family experience and a family place. He pointed out that the demographics of the neighborhood have changed since 1989 because now there are a lot more kids. Colleen Lucke, 15 Cooper Avenue, indicated that she is in favor of having a hockey rink even though her kids do not play hockey. However, her family loves to play pick-up hockey. She explained that for the past three years her family has been part of a group that reserves the Highland Park skating rink every Sunday night for their families to play hockey and have treats. Ms. Lucke stated that skating has been a big part of their social life and they’ve never had a problem even at the parks that are highly used for hockey. Therefore, they would love to see a hockey rink exist at Todd Park because it would be a nice place for families of all ages to enjoy. Michelle Sit, 23 Circle West, indicated that she has three kids and they enjoy the park all year. She noted that she drives by Todd Park on her way to other hockey rinks within Edina for her hockey players. She stated that her 7 year-old daughter had her birthday party at Todd Park and commented that they would love to have skating parties and boot hockey parties at Todd Park to get to know their neighbors better. Therefore, it would be great to be able to use a hockey rink at Todd Park during the winter months. Jeff Bowers, 12 Cooper Avenue, indicated that he moved to Edina last summer and on one of the first days of winter he thought it would be a great place to take his 2 ½ year- old daughter to go skating. However, the warming house was closed so they sat in the snow and put on their skates and needless to say they didn’t last too long because she was freezing. He noted that it’s such a beautiful facility and from a cost standpoint there really should be a hockey rink, his family would definitely use it. In addition, he thinks having the older kids playing hockey there is a great thing, it keeps them out of trouble. Mr. Bowers stated that it would be great to have a neighborhood park flourish all year. Nancy Hall, 4501 Parkside Lane, indicated that she lives right across the street from Todd Park and doesn’t understand why no one has been using the rink that is there. She noted that she hears the trucks every day at 6:30 am so it is definitely getting sprayed. She stated that she doesn’t understand why people would now want start to use the rink just because of hockey boards. 7 John Peyton, 27 Cooper Circle, indicated that he has been involved with hockey for a lot of years and has a couple of kids who play hockey. He noted that he drives by the rink a lot and no one is using it, however, having grown up in front of a hockey rink he knows that if you build it they will come. People don’t want to play hockey on an open sheet of ice. It would be a great benefit if a hockey rink were put in at Todd Park. Mr. Peyton pointed out that when he moved to the area in 1989 there weren’t very many kids but now there are a ton of young kids who would use that rink. Neal Campion, 4436 Vandevork Avenue, indicated that he thinks there are a lot of concerns from people who live by the park that it’s not going to be maintained the other 42 to 44 weeks of the year. He noted that they have all driven by and looked at permanent hockey boards and the way they are maintained and it does become a real eye sore. He stated that he remembers in 1989 a comment was made that from that time forward any park with boards would need to have a four-season surface. Therefore, what is really being talked about is taking a significant part of the park and it would be used for 8 to 10 weeks and for the other 42 to 44 weeks there would be no use to speak of for that portion of the park. He pointed out that if temporary boards were put up and taken down each season they would have back that portion of the park when it’s not the hockey season. In other words the majority of the year they would have the use of that area. He noted that it seems rather than spend money to put up and take down the boards each season you’re doing it the cheap way by leaving them up all year. Mr. Campion stated that the boards are going to be neglected and vandalized and 10 to 20 years from now you are going to have to put up new boards because these will have then been destroyed. He explained that his thoughts are if temporary boards are put up there will probably be less resistance from the neighborhood. He added they could charge a fee for the people who use the rink, the EHA. Mr. Campion commented that if there are 350 kids in the mite program why not put a surcharge on them and they can pay for putting up and taking down the removable hockey boards. Mr. Campion indicated that a comment was recently made that Todd Park is 30 plus acres. He informed the Park Board that a couple of people did measure the park and there is approximately 7 acres of useable open space. Therefore, it’s not as large as they were lead to believe. He pointed out that this is a very busy park and it’s good to see a lot of kids in the area, however, to take 42 to 44 weeks of the year seems to him to not be very efficient use of the area. Molly Cronin, 11 Cooper Avenue, indicated that she grew up in a house that backed up to Walnut Ridge Park. She explained that when her parents built that house in 1984 they knew the park was there. She noted one of the reasons they loved to be there was so during the winter they could see all of the skaters. She commented that it’s not as if they moved in not knowing that these things existed. They knew that if they wanted to get a view of the beauty and open space they would have to deal with the people working very hard at 3:00 am on those cold winter mornings. Ms. Cronin pointed out that during the summer while growing up next to Walnut Ridge Park they played inside of the hockey boards all of the time because it provided a great sort of boundary for them to play. They never considered it an eyesore. She commented that as a mother of young children she 8 would love it if there were boards so she wouldn’t have to worry about flying pucks hitting her children. Al Carlson, 4424 Vandervork, indicated that if you look at the actual useable open space of Todd Park it’s probably one of the most developed parks in Edina. He stated that personally he is not opposed to the hockey rink as long as the boards were removed during the summer months. He noted that the City of Minneapolis is able to remove their boards. He added that when he was growing up they played soccer, t-ball, etc., in open spaces and fields. Therefore, he is in favor of a hockey rink if the boards were removed during the summer months. Kathleen Carter, 4500 Vandervork Ave., indicated that she grew up in Edina and lives directly across from the park, which at that time was called Division Park. She noted that there are a lot more things at the park now compared to when she was growing up. Now there is a walking path, tennis courts, new warming house, basketball court, softball field and skating rink. Ms. Carter stated that living across the street from the park she is concerned that if the boards are left up all year it would really take away what little green space there is in the park. She added that it will also cause additional traffic and at some point it’s going to require a parking lot. She stated that this may not be an issue for the Park Board but it’s going to become an issue for someone’s committee because of the Park Board’s actions. She stated that she would be against the permanent hockey facility based on the limited acreage of the park. Tim Meehan, 5229 Hollywood, noted that when the Park Board was talking about Lewis Park and Countryside Park he heard things like feasibility study and bringing in an architect to do a complete study so that they do it right. However, when you talk about Todd Park it’s lets just slap it in and see what happens. He indicated that no disrespect to the Park Superintendent but he’s around the park every day and right now there is standing water all over the park. There are ducks and geese swimming in the 7 acres of green space that has been talked about. Mr. Meehan commented that just because they are opposed to having the rink doesn’t mean they are against family use of the park. He noted that what they are talking about is the best use of the park and he has now heard a couple of people say that having a hockey rink doesn’t make sense for the best use of the park. If they want the park to be for the youth then there needs to be some open space. He pointed out that Todd Park is the smallest park with this many facilities in Edina. He noted that area where the potential hockey rink is proposed would be abutted directly on all four sides by housing to which there is no other park like this within the city. Mr. Meehan indicated that if the Park Board is going to pursue this he thinks what they are really doing is perpetuating poor management of the park system. He noted that mistakes have been made at Countryside Park and they don’t want the same thing to happen at Todd Park because it really is an eyesore. Mr. Meehan stated that he thinks the Park Board should step back and spend more time on this. He noted that he appreciates that they are asking for the community’s input because he thinks there are a lot of people here who have years and years of experience that are on both sides of the equation. Therefore, he feels more discussion needs to take place on this issue. Mr. Meehan stressed to the Park Board that they are not a sports facility board and that there is a benefit to having 9 green space in a park that does add value to the community. Not every little space needs to be developed. Mr. Cronin asked how much money has been invested in the Todd Park warming house to which Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t have a specific amount because the four new shelter buildings were built with one contract. However, he would say to build Todd Park it cost approximately $200,000 and $250,000. Mr. Cronin stated that he thinks it’s an absolutely beautiful building and for some people having a hockey rink is an eyesore but for others having a rink is a thing of beauty. He pointed out that he would like to contradict a little bit on what Mr. Meehan stated earlier in that he thinks it would be poor management of the park system to develop Todd Park. He stated that he thinks it’s almost the opposite in that if the city has invested all of this capital into a structure and they are asking to invest just a tiny bit more to make it functional all year he feels it would be poor management not to build the rink. Al Carlson, 4424 Vandervork Avenue, indicated that the neighborhood received a letter before the winter season basically saying that the building was going to be open a limited number of hours because of budget constraints. The letter asked for input from the residents on what evenings and time periods they would like to see the building open. The letter did not say anything about low usage at the park. He commented that if the city can afford to man a warming house seven days a week then they could probably afford to man it now seven days a week to which it would be used a lot more then it presently is. Katie Meehan, 5229 Hollywood Road, indicated that she is very proud of the Todd Park community and noted that several years ago the neighborhood started “Street Greets” which is where they invite the community and have bands, food, games, prizes, etc., it is very family/youth oriented. She noted that each event has been attended by at least 60 people. She pointed out that the park is surrounded by a lot of houses and they watch out for each other and watch over all of the kids. She commented that they have also engaged the seniors who live at the Brookside apartment building because they recognize that it’s important for seniors to interact with youth and families and that’s of value. Ms. Meehan noted that they also united to remove buckthorn. She stressed that the Todd Park neighborhood is very community oriented and she doesn’t like being cast the “not in my backyard” and that they’re not for the youth and they don’t want this. She explained that she is all in favor of hockey; she’s not in favor of permanent boards. She would like to see them taken down in the summer so they are not poorly maintained. Mr. Cockriel pointed out that you typically don’t see the smaller communities putting up and taking down hockey boards. He noted that he believes that St. Paul and some areas of Minneapolis and Hopkins still use portable hockey boards. He explained that the issue with portable boards is of course it costs taxpayer dollars to put them up and take them each year as well as there is the storage issue. In addition there’s a safety issue because after the first year the portable boards are never the same because they become uneven and warped. Because the ground moves the board section that is put up one year doesn’t necessarily fit on that same section of ground the next year. Lastly, because they are 10 moved so much they end up with a shelf life that is less than typical hockey boards. Mr. Cockriel commented that people from all over the United States ask for the blueprints of Edina’s hockey boards. He indicated that the reason is because they stay true. The ground moves but the boards move with it in a serpentine manner and not an uneven manner like some of the boards you will see in Minneapolis and St. Paul. He stated that it makes no difference; however, he sees it as a waste of manpower and maintenance to put them up and take them down each year. Mr. Klus asked Mr. Cockriel to talk about the maintenance program of the boards to which Mr. Cockriel replied that they typically try to replace the boards every ten years. He pointed out that they don’t paint them anymore because that was an issue with the puck marks. He noted that all of the newer rinks are left the green treated look, which is natural to the setting. Mr. Cockriel stated that he doesn’t doubt that there’s an occasion when the weeds grow up around the insides of boards because of standing water which is evident in most hockey rinks, however, he’s not going to force his staff to put on chest waders and weed whip around them. Mr. Cockriel commented that they do have three rinks that have solid bases and noted that all three of them do get some summer use. Mr. Fronek indicated that from what he gathers there seems to be a limited number of ice skating rinks but there also seems to be a limited amount of green space in the parks. He asked Mr. Keprios to speak a little bit about how to balance that as well as how he came up with his recommendation. Mr. Keprios replied that how this all got started was through the Edina Hockey Association’s input and concern over reducing the total number of outdoor hockey rinks. Mr. Keprios indicated that based on a lot of input from the community, to which he applauds the Park Board for listening to the community, he noted that it would be nice if they could come to some kind of a conclusion where they could put another outdoor hockey rink in the system so that they don’t have a net loss compared to what they had for the 2004-2005 season. Mr. Keprios stated that he thinks if they allow EHA to review the Request For Proposals responses that were received and let them iron out whether or not they want to move forward with it. Hopefully by the September Park Board meeting staff will have a recommendation of where to go. Mr. Keprios explained that there is still the option of putting in a second hockey rink at Lewis Park without going the full nine yards and spending thousands of dollars to build an artificial rink not knowing where the money is going to come from. Therefore, his recommendation is to wait until the feasibility study is completed and EHA makes a decision on which direction they want to go. At that time he thinks the Park Board should address the issue of where an outdoor rink should go. Mr. Keprios stressed again that staff’s recommendation is to not put a hockey rink back in at Countryside Park in the wrong orientation. He commented that he would like to find the funding to establish a master plan for Countryside Park regardless of what is decided regarding outdoor hockey rinks. Mr. Keprios explained that Edina is short green space and we are a fully developed and landlocked community. He noted that by listening to the Todd Park neighborhood he thinks by not putting in a rink it would give them the opportunity to upgrade that space and put some dollars into beautifying the neighborhood so it’s even greener and better for 11 a multiple of sports during the warm weather months. He commented that from what he’s heard the neighborhood thinks this would be a fairly good compromise. However, they would probably end up with more scheduled events during the summer but at least they wouldn’t have to look at the hockey boards during the warm weather months. Mr. Keprios stressed that he doesn’t think the Park Board should make a decision on where to put a rink until EHA has had a chance to review the proposals and find out what the results of the feasibility study are. Mr. Sorem indicated that he’s confused because there seems to be a contradiction because if the area is below the water table and there is standing water he would be concerned about the grass quality for sports. It’s already been stated that the quality of ice would be fine. He commented that he doesn’t know what the cost would be to renovate that type of field to make it a good field like Lewis Park. Everyone wants green space but it doesn’t appear to be great green space. Mr. Keprios responded that is a fair comment. He noted that they might just have to put significant dollars into Todd Park as we have done at Lewis Park and Braemar Park athletic fields if that’s the direction the Park Board wants to go. He stated that to do it right so it drains off immediately after rain they are looking at some significant dollars we would also need the watershed district’s blessing to alter the grade. Mr. Keprios pointed out that he thinks they can at least slightly improve the area if they were to take out the ice rink. Ms. Presthus asked whether or not they would put in a hard surface area so that it would be useable during the summer for rollerblading, roller hockey, etc. or would it be left green grass. Mr. Keprios replied that the plan all along has been to just have grass. Mr. Sorem asked if a hard surface could be put in after the fact to which Mr. Cockriel replied that as long as they get grade right before they put up the boards there should be no problem. Mr. O’Connell indicated that he has been very persuaded by tonight’s testimony and thinks what he heard Mr. Keprios say is he would like to delay this vote and wait until EHA has had a chance to look at the proposals. He stated that the Todd Park neighborhood has a rink that is very close to them and it’s a long way from Todd Park to Lewis Park and they are talking about a lot of small children in the neighborhood. He noted that the population is also increasing with young people who will be using the park. Mr. Keprios commented that he thinks it’s worthy to mention the reason why this was proposed. It is not because the neighborhood came to the Park Board requesting this park amenity, it’s because EHA came to them and said they don’t want a net loss of one outdoor hockey rink. He noted that at that time staff came up with various options to which Lewis Park was his first recommendation based on input from the EHA. However, the Park Board chose not to go there and wanted to go to Todd Park instead because the thought was that it would be more difficult for the non-residents to find. Mr. O’Connell indicated that he would strongly be in favor of having a roof covered situation at Lewis Park to relieve some the pressure on Braemar rather than build a fourth sheet of ice. He stressed that with refrigerated ice on a permanent and covered surface is going to have a much longer life as far as the season goes. 12 Mr. Johnson commented that he agrees with Mr. O’Connell in that he also was under the impression that Lewis and Todd Park are two separate issues. He noted that his understanding is that Lewis Park would be done in place of a fourth sheet of ice at Braemar. However, the Todd Park rink is to replace the rink at Countryside Park so there would not be a net loss to EHA’s program. Therefore, he’s not sure why EHA’s request for proposal time frame has anything to do with this. Mr. Keprios explained that the reason why it would play a role is because if EHA decides after their deliberations that this is something that would not be doable they could still put in an outdoor hockey rink without refrigeration. Mr. Johnson stated that he thinks if they do put in a second rink at Lewis Park they should also put one in at Todd Park because they probably could use two more outdoor rinks because of the lack of ice time that’s available for the kids in this community. Mr. Johnson indicated that in regards to green space issues if they place a new field at Todd Park it would still increase traffic five to six months out of the year where with a hockey rink it would be approximately two months out of the year. Mr. Johnson stressed that the parking issue would definitely then come into play. He commented that one of the big issues of the neighborhood was traffic and parking problems. He stated that his main concern is to either move the rink to Todd Park or put it back at Countryside Park. Mr. Sorem stated that he’s a little confused because it seems that some of the people who were at last month’s meeting who were against the rink are now not so much against the rink but are against permanent hockey boards. Therefore he thinks they just need to discuss removable boards versus permanent boards. Mr. Sorem pointed out that the numbers in the youth hockey program are just staggering as well as he will attest that he has had a difficult time finding an open hockey rink on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore, maybe they need to look at putting in additional rinks because right now they are talking about trying to find a place where they can replace the Countryside rink, which is a must in his mind. Mr. Sorem commented that he understands and appreciates all of the concerns for and against the hockey rink at Todd Park. However, their job is to look at the needs of the community as a whole and Todd Park is a community-based park. He noted that it just makes too much sense to him to replace the rink at Countryside Park to Todd Park. Edina’s park maintenance staff is by far the best in the state if not the Country. Jeff Sorem MOVED TO BUILD A PERMANENT STRUCTURE RINK AT TODD PARK. Ray O’Connell SECONDED. Ms. Presthus indicated that they have not discussed the parking issue to which she has some pretty strong concerns about kids darting between cars and not providing proper parking. She asked since the neighborhood seems negative about having asphalt parking surface have they ever considered using pavers for a parking surface instead of putting in asphalt. Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t believe the city has any paver style parking lots in the park system. Mr. Cockriel stated that they do have what they call a GEO grid road surface at the Sherwood pump house at Sherwood Park and one also over at 13 Browndale Park. However, the disadvantage of that is if the soil conditions underneath cannot handle that kind of traffic you end up with the pavers shifting and coming up and actually being torn up. In addition when they are plowed during the wintertime it exposes that grass to the hard frost to which you almost have to start over again every spring as far as the grass goes. Mr. Keprios stated that he personally doesn’t support that approach for a parking lot. If the park needs a parking lot, it should be an asphalt parking lot. Mr. Klus commented that his thought on this motion is he’s in favor of an ice rink at Todd Park, however, he’s not so sure that a decision needs to be made tonight. He noted that they could put this off until August after they’ve received a little bit more feedback. He indicated that he thinks that would still give them enough time to make a decision and still be able to put up a rink if they agree to do it at Todd Park. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Cockriel how much time his staff would need to build a hockey rink to which Mr. Cockriel replied if a decision were made by the middle of August they would still be okay. Mr. Johnson stated that he would disagree because there have already been two meetings with open discussion and they have already heard from everyone who has an opinion. If they table it for another month he really doesn’t know that it would make that much of a difference. Mr. Sorem commented that he would assume that a little pleasure rink would go along with it to which Mr. Cockriel replied that is correct. Mr. Keprios added that it would also require the installation of some new lighting. IN FAVOR: Jeff Johnson, Karla Sitek, Todd Fronek, Linda Presthus, Jessica Selleck, Jeff Sorem, Ray O’Connell AGAINST: George Klus Mr. Keprios stated that this will be on the August 2nd City Council agenda. He also indicated that the Park Board minutes are published on the website after they’ve been approved. However, he will make an exception this time and publish the unapproved Park Board minutes. IV. WATER QUALITY PRESENTATION – CONSERVATION LEAGUE OF EDINA Jan Goldman-Carter, 4504 Casco Avenue, a member of the Conservation League of Edina, gave the Park Board a power point presentation. She indicated that they are working in a partnership with the Edina Community Foundation, the Nine Mile Creek Watershed District and the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District. Mr. Klus stated that the Park Board appreciates all of their work and what they are doing within the city. 14 V. OTHER A. Arneson Acres - Mr. Keprios indicated that during the construction project that is currently going on at Arneson Acres they have learned that the feed line that serves the fire suppression system at Arneson Acres is undersized and always has been. He noted that, if they were to have a fire, it probably would not have the pressure needed to save the building. Therefore, the fire marshal has asked since it is already under construction would it be possible to pipe in the proper line. Mr. Keprios asked Mr. Cockriel how much it would cost to do that to which Mr. Cockriel replied he would guess approximately $15,000. Mr. Keprios asked if he could get the Park Board’s blessing to utilize the Developer’s Fund. He noted currently there is approximately $90,000 in the Developer’s Fund. Mr. Keprios explained that before any action is taken there is another item that is coming their way. He stated that they have received a formal complaint from the attorney’s office regarding proper ADA accessible parking and access to the Edina Aquatic Center. What is currently in place may not be ADA compliant. Therefore, they are working very closely and positively with them. Mr. Keprios noted that they have come up with a plan that would be a great fix without significantly altering the character of the park. They would basically create a small parking lot just off of 66th Street immediately to the south entrance of the bathhouse. However, the price tag is going to be significantly larger than $15,000 it will probably be closer to $40,000. Mr. Keprios noted that he wanted to the give the Park Board a heads up. Mr. Keprios stated what he is asking for tonight is the Park Board’s blessing to approve approximately $15,000 to $20,000 out of the Developer’s Fund to take care of the problem at Arneson Acres. Mr. Cockriel stressed that timing is of the essence with this project because they have to do it while 70th Street is torn up. If they go in and do it later it’s going to be more expensive. Ray O’Connell MOVED TO APPROVE USE OF THE DEVELOPER’S FUND TO PAY FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF THE PROPER WATER SERVICE LINE TO ARNESON ACRES PARK. Karla Sitek SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNAMIMOUSLY. B. Centennial Lakes Amphitheatre - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that the dedication of the Maetzold Amphitheatre at Centennial Lakes will be this Sunday at 7:00 pm followed by the Sousa Band Concert. Mr. Keprios commented that for Mayor Maetzold has long been a strong supporter of parks and recreation and he encourages everyone to attend this special event in his honor. C. Future Agenda Items – Mr. Fronek asked to have the Countryside Park master plan put on the agenda for the Park Board to start to discuss. D. Mr. O’Connell commented that when he attended an interesting meeting on May 14th with the Conservation League that did a bird study along with Wood Lake Nature Center staff and Bob Atol. He stated that Braemar Golf Course is now certified by the Audubon 15 Society for meeting the 7 main criteria established by the Audubon Society. Mr. O’Connell also stated that Braemar Golf Course contributes to good water quality because of the things they’ve implemented since about 1997. VI. ADJOURNMENT Linda Presthus MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:00 P.M. Jeff Sorem SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.