HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-05-10 Park Board Minutes 1
EDINA PARK BOARD
7:00 P.M.
EDINA COMMUNITY ROOM
EDINA CITY HALL
MAY 10, 2005
_____________________________
MEMBERS PRESENT: George Klus, Jeff Johnson, Mike Weiss, Mike Damman, Linda
Presthus, Andy Finsness, Todd Fronek, Jeff Sorem, Karla Sitek,
Ray O’Connell
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jessica Selleck
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT: Debbi Swanstrom, Judy Aronson, John Aronson, Janet Ha, John
Christensen, Andy Halper, Tim Meehan, Katie Meehan, David
Kerwin, Eva Johnson, Neal Campion, Al Carlson, Jill Hartman,
Greta Simondet, Heidi Dorfmeister, Adam Mans, John Purdum,
Doug Hall
____________________________
I. NEW PARK BOARD MEMBER RAY O’CONNELL
Mr. Klus introduced Ray O’Connell, the new Park Board member. Mr. O’Connell
informed the Park Board that he is a World War II vet and has been active in the city for
many years. He noted that he has lived in Edina the past 39 years and still lives in the
same house where he raised his children. He indicated that his wife passed away in
March of 2001. The Park Board welcomed Mr. O’Connell.
II. APPROVAL OF THE MARCH 8, 2005 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Andy Finsness MOVED TO APPROVE THE APRIL 12, 2005 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. Todd Fronek SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED
III. TODD PARK HOCKEY RINK PROPOSAL
Mr. Keprios informed the residents in the audience that he is the one who sent out the
mailing to the Todd Park neighborhood. Mr. Keprios explained the reason this is on the
agenda is because they’ve had a hockey rink at Countryside Park for many years, which
has always been in the wrong orientation (east/west). He indicated that the hockey
boards are now beyond repair and are at the point where they need to be completely
removed. Mr. Keprios stated that this recommendation to the Park Board at the March
meeting was to consider some options. First, they don’t have the money to put the
hockey rink in the proper orientation at Countryside Park and until they can create a
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master plan that redevelops Countryside Park it would be better to hold off for now. Mr.
Keprios explained that members from the Edina Hockey Association (EHA) were at the
April Park Board meeting and voiced that they do not want to have a net loss of an
outdoor hockey rink. EHA utilizes these hockey rinks for practices and games very
extensively throughout the winter months.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that the first recommendation he had in front of the Park Board
was to add a second rink at Lewis Park. A big concern with Lewis Park is that it is
heavily used by non-residents. He noted one of their thoughts was there is a beautiful
building at Todd Park, however, there is no parking lot which would draw traffic back to
the neighborhood which would probably be un-welcomed. He noted that the good news
is they would get a lot more utilization out of the beautiful shelter building. Therefore,
the Park Board decided that they would like to entertain the thought of putting a hockey
rink back at Todd Park. He added that years ago Todd Park did have an outdoor hockey
rink, however, due to a lot of budget cuts the Park Board at that time decided not to
replace the hockey rink at Todd Park. Mr. Keprios commented that many years ago they
used to flood rinks all over the city to which that has really been scaled back which has
resulted in fewer rinks but more quality ice.
Mr. Keprios explained the Park Board in April also felt that Todd Park might be a
tougher location for the non-residents to find and would hopefully get primarily utilized
by either scheduled use or neighborhood use. Therefore, the Park Board agreed to start
the process of sending letters to the neighborhood and inviting them to a Park Board
meeting to share their thoughts. Mr. Keprios indicated that he has received quite a few e-
mails which he has forwarded on to the Park Board. He noted that on Friday he received
a petition from the neighborhood which had 47 signatures and has now been informed
there are 101 signatures. Mr. Keprios stated that he would like to make one clarification
in that the petition states there is going to be a hard surface on the proposed hockey rink
which is not the case. There has been no discussion to put in a hard surface and therefore
it would not require watershed district approval. Therefore, there is some inaccurate
information in the petition.
Mr. Keprios showed on a map where the proposed hockey rink would be placed at Todd
Park and added that it would require new lights, however, he would go with the low
hanging lights with proper fixtures so there would be no glare or spill into the neighbors
yards and homes. He added that they would still leave enough room for a general rink.
Mr. Keprios explained that Todd Park is classified as a community playfield due to its
acreage which is 33.97 acres. Community playfields typically range in size from 20 to 60
acres and are parks designed to provide facilities for diverse recreational activities for
young people and adults as well as a section is typically set-aside for the smaller
neighborhood children. He added that the service area for a park of this size is 9 to 16
square miles so it does serve a much greater area than just the neighborhood. Mr.
Keprios indicated that a good share of Todd Park is woodlands and would guess that half
of Todd Park is maintained acres.
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Mr. Klus indicated that they have received quite a bit of feedback from the neighborhood
on the hockey rink proposal which is great. They have heard from people who think this
is a great idea as well as from people who have some real concerns. Mr. Klus informed
the Park Board that Mr. Keprios is asking for a recommendation on the proposal of
whether or not to put in a hockey rink at Todd Park. He noted that if it’s approved it
would go on to the City Council for their approval and if that passed the hockey rink
would be put in this fall.
Mr. Johnson asked if there is an area for parking or if the basketball court could be a
viable parking lot in the winter. Mr. Keprios replied that he doesn’t think the basketball
court could withstand doubling as a parking lot. He showed on a map where it would
make the most sense to put in a parking lot because of grading issues if they decided to
do that. Mr. Keprios indicated that they have survived at Arden Park without a parking
lot; however the concept of adding a permanent parking lot to Arden Park has long been
opposed by the Arden Park neighborhood.
A resident asked how many memos were sent out to which it was noted 294.
Tim Meehan, 5229 Hollywood Road, asked if the hockey rink would be a permanent
structure with boards left up all year to which Mr. Keprios replied that is correct. Mr.
Meehan noted that he appreciates the Park Board seeking community input because he
thinks it’s very critical and important for them to hear what the residents’ thoughts are.
He indicated that he looked at the February and March Park Board minutes to better
understand what why the Park Board was considering this proposal. His impression from
the minutes is that you believe that placing an outdoor hockey rink in a neighborhood
park will be an added asset to the community at large and will be valued by the
neighborhood. Mr. Meehan noted that they have 101 signatures on a petition that was
gathered in a very short amount of time to let the Park Board know that if that is their
goal they aren’t going to get it at Todd Park because the neighborhood doesn’t want it. It
won’t be a park that would be valued and appreciated by the neighborhood. He noted
that he doesn’t know why the city would want to pursue this in light of the fact that the
neighborhood doesn’t want it. Mr. Meehan commented that he doubts if half of the 33.9
acres is useable green space. He added that it is surrounded on four sides by residents by
approximately 50 yards at the most. Mr. Meehan pointed out that if a parking lot is put
in, then a lot of those homes’ values would just plummet, which would be caused by our
local government’s actions and those people may seek compensation for that.
Mr. Meehan indicated that after looking through the Park Board minutes he was curious
as to how they came to the decision to put a hockey rink at Todd Park. He noted that it
looked like there were some really good suggestions put forth with Braemar and Lewis
Park. He stated that he thinks the ideas came to the Park Board without any concern from
the neighbors. Therefore, he is unclear as to why the Park Board is pursuing this now if
these other options are available especially since they seem to be less of a problem for the
neighborhood. Mr. Meehan pointed out that a comment was also made in the minutes
about Lewis Park being used by so many Bloomington people. He noted that St. Louis
Park residents use the park all the time, they always have and they always will. He stated
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that if you put in a rink it would be the St. Louis Park residents skating because it won’t
be the Todd Park neighborhood using it.
Jill Hartman, 4428 Vandervork Ave., stated that Mr. Meehan speaks for her as well.
Greta Simondet, 4448 Vandervork Ave., indicated that she lives across the street from the
potential parking lot and noted that it’s a very busy street where people drive fast and
there is a four-way stop sign that people drive through. She stated this could be a
dangerous thing especially at night. She added that they built an addition to which their
view would be ruined with a parking lot. Ms. Simondet indicated that for softball,
baseball, etc. people are parking all over the street. She stressed that the parking lot is
one of her concerns. Mr. Keprios asked Ms. Simondet if she would prefer that cars park
on the streets as opposed to a parking lot, which would be a lot safer for children? Ms.
Simondet replied that she prefers where they are parking now and doesn’t know that it
would be any safer with a parking lot.
Al Carlson, 4424 Vandervork Ave., noted that he lives across the street and a few doors
down from the potential parking and noted that he thinks it would tie up a lot of green
space that is used by many young families with kids. He noted that with the softball field
and basketball court the only place to really play catch and Frisbee is the area across from
the homes where you would put a potential parking lot.
Mr. Carlson explained that he remembers during the 1996 referendum there was talk
about putting a hard surface in the hockey rink because the quality of ice at Todd Park is
so poor with the underground springs, etc. He indicated that if the Park Board is going to
invest money into a hockey rink with no base it doesn’t seem like a wise investment to
him because the quality of ice is extremely poor. He noted that he doesn’t see how a
hockey rink would be of much use because of the poor ice.
Neal Campion, 4436 Vandervork Ave., indicated that he was at a meeting in 1996
regarding that referendum and he believes the same subject came up as far as putting in a
hockey rink. He noted that at that time the neighborhood kind of expressed its opinion
that they prefer to not have a hockey rink but rather a walking path, which has been great.
He stated that he remembers in 1996 a comment was made that from hereon forward any
rink would automatically have a hard surface because the ice in Minnesota is so
unpredictable. If we get six weeks of good skating weather we’re doing very well. Mr.
Campion noted that during the summertime with softball and basketball there really isn’t
a problem with kids darting out into the street, it’s more of a problem when there are
snow banks. He commented that he has noticed at Weber Park there is grass growing up
inside of the hockey rink where they have boards and if EHA has extra money why don’t
they make four season rinks out of existing rinks. Mr. Campion noted that if the city has
to spend money Countryside already has a rink that they’ve been using for years and does
have a parking lot. He added that all four of his kids played hockey in Edina and the ice
at Todd Park is awful.
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Mr. Keprios pointed out that he has asked Vince Cockriel, Superintendent of
Maintenance, if they would have to put in a hard surface at Todd Park in order to have
quality ice during the heart of the season. He noted that Mr. Cockriel’s response was no,
they would not have to have a hard surface.
Mr. Klus commented that to reiterate on the parking issue staff finds that street parking
poses a serious safety issue for the neighborhood and would recommend to request the
Traffic Safety Committee work with the neighborhood to consider parking restrictions on
one or both sides of streets where needed. The long-range master plan should include a
hard surface parking lot located near the park shelter building. Mr. Klus commented that
he knows parking is an issue and is something that would be taken up by the Traffic
Safety Committee if that’s something that the neighborhood wants to do down the road.
He noted that he appreciates the comments on parking; however, there have been no
determinations or recommendations being made for a parking lot or anything regarding
parking at this time.
A resident stated that in 1996 it was under no uncertain terms that if a rink were put in it
would have to have a parking lot because there is no way they could have parking
restrictions on any of those roads and get to the warming house. It just couldn’t be done
so to pretend that it’s not going to happen is disingenuous. Mr. Klus replied that he is not
pretending that it would or would not happen, he is saying there is a mechanism now
employed from this city which is a Traffic Safety Committee and that is different than
what they had in 1996. He noted he appreciates the comment but they are not going to
solve the parking issue tonight.
Janet Ha, 4500 Parkside, indicated that she would like to bring up the issue of
maintenance which is very loud and happens at 4:30 am to which it isn’t going to get any
less if they are going to expand the rink and maintain a hockey surface. Ms. Ha stated
that she doesn’t think they can count on winters to maintain outdoor ice, it’s just
impractical and there are very few days you can skate outdoors.
Ms. Ha stated that there were comments about this being a somewhat hidden park and
that people who live outside of the city would have a hard time finding it. She pointed
out that there are a lot of St. Louis Park people who use the park and she doesn’t mind
that but St. Louis Park is literally up the path and over the bridge. Ms. Ha explained that
this is a very busy street and a lot of people use it as a cut through between Interlachen
and Brookside. Therefore, they get a fair amount of drive through traffic. She added that
a lot of people stop and play basketball there to which she has no idea where they are
coming from. They do have a pretty steady stream of people parking there to play
basketball and softball. Ms. Ha pointed out that if EHA does use this for a practice rink it
would be for the smaller kids which means there are going to be a lot of cars sitting there
to which a lot of them leave them running. She pointed out where there is a hill and stop
sign and noted that a lot of people do fly inadvertently through the stop sign all winter
long. She noted this is a very busy and dangerous area.
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Mr. Damman informed Ms. Ha that he has a problem with her letter that she sent to the
Park Board saying that what they are doing is an immoral act and he would like to know
what she means by that. Ms. Ha replied that she appreciates the chance that the Park
Board is giving the neighborhood. She commented that in her view it would be immoral
if the Park Board did this; however, she appreciates the chance you are giving them to be
here.
Mr. Johnson stated that a quick point of clarification is they had the same argument as far
as traffic with the gymnasiums at South View and the Community Center. He noted that
there are not going to be 40 or 50 cars coming down the street. It would be mite teams
going there for practices and people car pool so it would be more like 7 or 8 cars coming
in at one time and leaving.
Debbie Swanstrom, 4416 Vandervork Ave. indicated that she lives at the end of a cul-de-
sac and noted that cars whip down the street to run around for no apparent reason whether
they are using the park or not. She noted there is a ton of traffic and there are a lot of
kids who live in the neighborhood and they are constantly crossing the street to use the
park. She commented that the area where you are proposing to put a parking lot is a nice
little green field that they would like to keep it that way as opposed to putting in asphalt.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that they are not proposing to build a parking lot as part of this
proposal. It was never said that if you build a hockey rink at Todd Park there has to be a
parking lot. Mr. Keprios explained that as the Park and Recreation Director it is his
professional recommendation that even if there were not to be a hockey rink he has
always felt that, with a park of this size, the best way to protect pedestrians from cars and
moving traffic is to have a parking lot. He stated that, if they do put in a parking lot some
day, there would be another process involving the Transportation Committee, as well as,
architects and engineers to meet with the neighborhood to determine the best place for a
safe parking lot.
Ms. Swanstrom asked which Park Board member was opposed to moving forward with
this effort and would be curious to understand their position as to why.
Mr. Klus wanted everyone to be aware that he understands the traffic concerns very well
because he lives off of Highland Park and Doncaster dead ends into their hockey rink to
which people always drive there thinking they can go through. He noted that when his
son was in the fifth grade he was hit by a car, fortunately he only ended up with a broken
leg. This is a very scary thing for any parent to go through.
Katie Meehan, 5229 Hollywood Road, stated that according to the minutes and from
what has been said earlier tonight that the warming house is underutilized. A lot of
residents’ fears are that adding a hockey rink will increase the demand and justification
for a parking lot. That’s a very serious concern of those who live around the Todd Park
neighborhood.
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Ms. Meehan noted that this is not a sleepy little four street piece of acreage; there is a
tremendous amount of traffic. She commented that if you are building a neighborhood
skating rink then the neighbors should be able to walk to the rink and not drive so that’s
really not what the purpose is. She stated that the purpose is to meet the EHA needs and
not the neighborhood needs because the whole neighborhood is sitting here saying they
don’t want it. She asked the Park Board if they have received any e-mails in favor of this
to which Mr. Keprios replied yes.
John Christensen, 4520 Rutledge Avenue, thanked the Park Board for hearing everyone
in the audience tonight. Mr. Christensen noted that he is going to speak in favor of this
proposal. He indicated that his family moved into the neighborhood a little over four
years ago and at that time there were only a couple of kids in the neighborhood. Now
there are approximately 12 to 15 kids living on his street alone. Mr. Christensen pointed
out that he had the opportunity to review the petition and pointed out that more than half
of the names on it were people who live directly adjacent to the park. He noted that he
keeps hearing the words majority of the neighborhood and stressed that there are more
than 200 people in this neighborhood.
Mr. Christensen explained that they are talking about a skating rink which will be flooded
and maintained for approximately two months out of the year. He noted that he agrees
this is a busy dangerous street, however, it’s not so much a factor of people using the
park as it is people just cutting through. He stated that he would also propose that a
number of people who live in the neighborhood to the west use that road very
inappropriately and by that he means they drive dangerously. Mr. Christensen asked
people who are here to speak against this to ask themselves if you have young kids who
will benefit from this. Are you opposed to this because it’s something that’s going to
directly affect your life? Mr. Christensen pointed out that the park is a piece of public
property. It’s not just for the people who border it but for the people who live in the
entire neighborhood. He noted that part of what the park and school programs need are
kids and as kids get older new kids need to keep coming into the neighborhood and they
need to keep providing things to make sure that happens. He noted that he thinks the
people who live on his street would appreciate this and commented that the last time he
looked at the petition the majority of the signatures were people who live on Vandervork.
He stated that he works out of his home and his wife has been on bed rest for the past
eight weeks and no one has been to his door asking him to sign a petition and no one has
been to the houses around him. He stated that he is in support of this proposal.
Eva Johnson, 4380 Brookside Court, indicated that Todd Park has a big problem with
standing water and noted that geese and ducks swim in it almost all summer long. Ms.
Johnson pointed out that that they need to keep the basketball court because it is one of
the most successful basketball courts around. Ms. Johnson stated that she has lived in the
neighborhood since 1952. Ms. Johnson indicated that there is no place to put this other
than the center area that floods and where kids play soccer and fly kites. She stated there
are a lot of springs down there so you would be putting in something that doesn’t make
sense.
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John Purdum, 4540 Rutledge, indicated that he has lived in the area for approximately 18
years and has watched the park develop into a very nice park that is utilized by a lot of
kids and added that his daughter grew up using Todd Park. Mr. Purdum asked what
percentage of time the boards will just sit. Also, kids are going to be playing hockey all
night long when it’s not scheduled and there are a lot of older folks who live in the large
unit by the park who are going to get the noise factor all day long as hockey pucks are
being bounced off the boards. Mr. Purdum asked how high the nets are going to be on
the boards because he wants to make sure kids on the secondary ice aren’t getting hit with
hockey pucks. He pointed out that hockey will be going on for a short period of time and
after that the boards will just be there unused. He noted that he thinks it’s going to
become a maintenance issue because they are going to have to drive around to mow it as
well as it’s not going to do anything to enhance the area other than that 8 week period of
time that they have ice.
Mr. Purdum stated that since the new basketball court has been put in not only has traffic
increased but so has the number of people on the basketball court. A lot of people who
don’t live in the area drive to Todd Park to use the basketball court and with them they
bring terrible language and drink beer. He noted that since the softball field has been
enhanced a lot of older folks have been practicing there which again is bringing in foul
language, drinking beer and causing problems. He stated that once the tennis courts were
upgraded more people were coming in and using those, however, the percentage of
people using the tennis courts is a lot less than the other aspects. Mr. Purdum pointed out
that the walking path has been a wonderful enhancement and a lot of people walk that
daily. Again people like to walk in the wintertime and how safe will it be when those
hockey pucks go astray. He stressed that his point is a hockey rink is not going to be an
enhancement to a beautiful piece of land. There are a lot more people who use the park
than those who received the memo where if they knew about a possible hockey rink they
would probably say they don’t want to see the park degraded by it.
Adam Mans, 4821 Vandervork, indicated that somehow he wasn’t on the mailing list and
found out about it by talking to people at the park. He noted that he has three children
ages 5, 3, 1 and in the summertime they are at the park almost daily and during the winter
as much as they can. He commented that a gentleman who spoke earlier he is concerned
that he doesn’t want to be teaching his kids how to skate and have to worry about being
hit by a hockey puck. Mr. Mans stated that he also is concerned about traffic.
Andy Halper, 4437 Rutledge Ave., indicated that he has lived in his house for past 27.5
years. He noted that when he thinks about the quality that the Edina civic community
and the Park Board provide their citizens it gives him a great deal of pride. He indicated
that the type of quality that the ice rink has provided them has always made his family
feel a little on the inferior side. He noted that it’s not because of anything that the Park
and Recreation Department has done because they have done a heck of a job in trying to
make it the pride of our community. Mr. Halper pointed out that because the park is built
on a swamp it is virtually impossible the build the quality of ice that is needed to provide
the civic pride and the quality that they hope to engender to their children. He stated that
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the point he would like to make is the quality of ice that they would like to see
maintained in their community somehow is being negated by the eco system.
Mr. Keprios asked the residents if they would prefer that there not be a general skating
rink to which Mr. Halper replied that a pleasure rink would be fine. A resident pointed
out that he doesn’t know when there’s ever been quality ice at Todd Park. He indicated
that he has tried to skate there many, many times and the ice is always soggy. Mr.
Keprios asked is it not worth your resources to provide you with that service. A resident
replied that if they never put a rink at Todd Park again he would feel badly that money
was spent to build the warming house. However, if you are trying to justify the warming
house by putting in a hockey rink he’s sorry about that too. He believes the quality of ice
has been and always will be in terrible condition. Ms. Johnson pointed out that they
really have wonderful park staff and every morning they shovel it off and water it but the
rink is used approximately half the time.
Mr. Weiss stated that if there are concerns about the quality of ice he thinks it bears
discussion. He asked if it is bad ice can we fix it and if so what would it take. Mr. Sorem
indicated that if the condition of the ice is poor that is something that they definitely need
to check out.
Mr. Sorem indicated that he would like to make a couple of general comments as far as
people thinking a rink would ruin that space. First, he noted that he grew up near Walnut
Ridge Park and during the summer they used to use the rink all of the time playing
soccer, baseball, etc., It does have grass in it and therefore it will definitely be used
more than 8 weeks during the year. Secondly, the safety concern of pucks flying and
hitting people outside of the rink would be an issue at every park. He noted that he has
never heard of that being a concern. Mr. Sorem explained that usually the kids don’t
shoot the puck that hard and half of them can’t even lift it. In addition the adults who
play hockey don’t wear helmets and equipment and therefore they are not lifting the
puck. He noted that he plays hockey outside all of the time and he has never seen a puck
fly out of a rink and feels that really should not be a concern.
Mr. Fronek indicated that it seems like some people are saying that the park is only being
used by the neighborhood yet other people are saying everyone from St. Louis Park and
their brother come to use the park. He stated it sounds like traffic is already horrendous
with the softball field and basketball court during the summer. Mr. Fronek pointed out he
drove around the park today and there does seem to be adequate space and noted that
there are turnarounds for those dead-end streets. He commented that he realizes it is a
neighborhood park but as Park Board members they need to look for the community at
large rather than just the people who are nestled back in there. Mr. Fronek noted that
other than the quality of ice he hasn’t heard anything to kind of deter to say that traffic is
going to be worse than it already is. He added that he also agrees with Mr. Sorem in that
playing hockey in the winter is great as well as it can easily be utilized during the
summer.
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Mr. Johnson stated that if the ice situation really is that bad they need to look into it
because it would be foolish to spend money it if it’s as bad as they say. He noted that he
would like to get a little more data on it because this is his biggest concern. He
commented that he agrees with Mr. Fronek in that it’s a community park, it’s not just for
the people who live next to it but rather it’s for the entire community.
Ms. Sitek indicated that obviously the quality of ice is a problem. She noted that the Park
Board should consider the parking lot issue as part of the discussion and decision making
process even though it is not part of the recommendation. She stated that if they are
looking at possibly putting in a parking lot later, then it is something she feels should be
factored in with the hockey rink at this time. However, on the other hand she doesn’t
think there is much difference between a pleasure rink and a hockey rink. She noted that
it’s mostly small kids and doesn’t see what’s wrong with putting in a hockey rink at Todd
Park.
Mr. Sorem commented that it seems with the basketball court and softball field there
already is a parking issue whether a hockey rink goes in or not. A resident replied that
it’s different when there are snow banks.
Mr. Finsness asked if removal hockey boards are used anymore to which Mr. Keprios
replied it would be possible to use them but it’s not desirable as far as maintenance goes.
Portable rinks require a lot of extra manpower and we would need to find a place to store
them in the off-season. Mr. Finsness stated that he thinks a permanent hockey rink
structure would take up too much space.
Mr. O’Connell informed the Park Board that he has been involved in environmental
issues and the wetlands do help cause poor ice conditions which is a problem. However,
he would hate to defy just one young person from having the opportunity to skate for
pleasure and/or organized hockey. Mr. O’Connell indicated that he walked around Todd
Park yesterday and as he watched the cars go by he understands what the neighbors are
feeling. However, he still would prefer that if there was an opportunity to provide a sheet
of ice he would like to see that done.
Mr. Damman stated that he has the same feelings that this is a community park where
there are ball fields, basketball courts, tennis courts, and ice rink, which is what everyone
expects out of a park. He indicated that he knows it’s a concern that people come from
all over to use the parks but it goes with the territory. He noted that a lot of Edina kids
would be using the park for hockey practices and that is one of the reasons why they are
thinking about doing this. It would be for Edina kids as well as the neighborhood kids
would use it if it’s there. Mr. Damman commented that kids come up with all kinds of
ideas to use the rinks during the summer months. He pointed out that he is concerned
about the ice, if it’s that bad do they really want to have a rink there.
Ms. Presthus commented that it would be nice to hear what the person who maintains the
rink at Todd Park has to say about the quality of ice. Mr. Keprios replied that he did ask
Vince Cockriel, Park Superintendent, if it is not feasible to put in a hockey rink at Todd
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Park because they are not able to maintain good ice. He noted that Mr. Cockriel’s
response was absolutely not, and stated that they have adequate soil, equipment and staff
that allows them to create and maintain great ice if we are called upon to do so. Mr.
Keprios explained that what has happened at Todd Park is it’s currently flooded in the
winter months with a tanker truck and not by hand, which is going to create less than
quality ice. He noted that building a better outdoor ice product can be done; however, it
takes more manpower and equipment. Maintaining outdoor ice with a tanker truck is
much more efficient but the result is lesser quality ice. Mr. Keprios stressed that his
professional staff tell him that it is possible to create and maintain quality ice at Todd
Park with the right amount of available manpower and equipment regardless of the soils
that are there. Mr. Johnson asked if that would tone down the level of noise that the
neighbors hear with a tanker truck to which Mr. Keprios replied unfortunately it would
probably create even more noise because building quality ice takes more time.
Mr. Klus commented that Ms. Presthus was the only person who voted against this and
someone earlier asked if she could speak to that. Ms. Presthus explained that she thought
another location within the city was better because it offered more opportunities. She
indicated that she was looking more at a refrigeration system and a roof. She noted that
she didn’t have anything against Todd Park; she just felt they could build an even better
product somewhere else that would have taken a lot more resources. It’s not that she
didn’t think Todd Park was another alternative. Ms. Presthus explained that she would
still like to see a hockey rink at Lewis Park but that would be a whole different product
and that’s a separate issue. Ms. Presthus commented that she can’t see building a hockey
rink and putting all of these resources into it if it’s not going to be a good product. She
pointed out that traffic issues are everywhere in the city and she agrees with Mr. Johnson
in that not everyone is going to be coming at the same time in a separate car. Ms.
Presthus stated that traffic is a huge issue and whenever they do something within the city
it’s the Transportation Commission who will address the situation. She commented that
anytime they can upgrade a park and make it more useable for their citizens they should
do it. She pointed out that they have such limited space for hockey rinks, green space,
basketball courts, etc. that they try to do the best they can for everybody in the
community and sometimes it ends up in your neighborhood but it’s for the whole good of
the community. She noted that she certainly is sensitive to everything that has been said
and is just weighing it back and forth in her mind.
Mr. Klus commented that they are using more and more of the parks each and every day
around the community to meet the needs of our youth. He indicated that one of the things
the Park Board has been looking at and debating is what the needs are for skating in this
community because their numbers are growing tremendously when it comes to little kids.
They don’t have enough facilities for the number of kids that is coming up in our youth
hockey program. Mr. Klus noted that he is concerned about the quality of ice and that is
an issue that the staff is going to have to look at because he doesn’t want to see a rink
built if the quality of ice isn’t good. He pointed out that Mr. Cockriel and his staff does a
great job on the rinks in this community. He stressed this is a community park and they
need to look at that.
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John Aaronson, 4440 Vandervork Ave., noted that he is not opposed to the rink but is
opposed to the parking lot and asked in addition to the night time activity and lights what
other restrictions would there be, would the lights be on 12 months out of the year? Mr.
Keprios replied that it would probably be a 6 to 8 week season and would be open until
9:30 pm and would be limited to just the winter season. He noted that he doesn’t
anticipate any night use for the rest of the year. Mr. Aaronson asked if there is a parking
lot would that have lights to which Mr. Keprios replied that he would propose that there
be adequate street lighting. Mr. Keprios stressed that he still feels strongly for the safety
of children that Todd Park needs a parking lot whether there’s a hockey rink there or not.
Jill Hartman, 4428 Vandervork Ave., indicated that she personally doesn’t see how a
parking lot is safer. She stated that people are speeding down the dead-ends and running
the stop signs. She noted that she calls police all year because people are parking on the
basketball court or spinning around on the rink. She noted they’ve had cars driving
around the perimeter of the park on the path. She stressed that she doesn’t think there is
enough control over what happens with traffic she indicated that even if there is a parking
lot she still pictures people zooming onto the basketball court to turn around to get out or
driving across the park. She noted she has called the police but people still park right
next to the building and introducing more vehicles is scary to her.
A resident noted that it was addressed that the reason you wouldn’t want to use
removable boards is because of cost and storage, however, putting the boards in would
raise the cost. He asked if anyone has weighed the cost one way or the other. Mr.
Keprios replied that the rink would have to be maintained during the winter whether the
boards were portable or not. He explained that where they would save costs is if the
boards aren’t removable they don’t need to take staff time to take them in and out every
year in addition to transporting them and finding storage. Mr. Keprios also noted that our
own staff builds these permanent rinks which also save a lot of money. The resident
asked if the portable rinks are not feasible to which Mr. Keprios replied they do not have
any portable rinks left in the city. Mr. Keprios informed the residents that they now have
one less full-time maintenance person than they had 25 years ago as well as they have
added many acres of park property and facilities to maintain and we pride ourselves on
the fact that we continue to provide a high level of quality maintain service with the same
number of staff. The resident noted that he has never been able to skate at Todd Park on
a consistent basis where he thought the ice was good.
Mr. Meehan indicated that you will not find too many parks in Edina surrounded so
closely by homes. Second, there is nothing notorious behind the signatures on the
petition, he noted that he was responsible for one street that is two blocks away from the
park and was only turned down by one person. Mr. Meehan commented that from
reading the March Park Board minutes and what he is hearing tonight is that the Park
Board is acting under a lot of assumptions and not facts. He noted that there is also
information in the March minutes to look into Braemar and Lewis Park and they’ve heard
all kinds of comments about poor ice yet the Chair is asking for a motion to make a
decision on way or the other. He stated he’s not so sure they can go forward with
anything tonight. Lastly the comment was made “not in my backyard” to which the
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people who are in this room tonight are the ones maintaining the park and a lot of them
have dogs and are constantly picking up after them as well as cleaning up after the
athletic events. He noted that the people who are here are invested in Todd Park.
Mr. Klus explained that Braemar and Lewis Park are a separate issue from Todd Park.
Mr. Fronek stated that it doesn’t make any sense to do anything at Lewis Park right now
because they don’t have a lot of data on what it would cost to put in refrigeration so that
they can have ice for more than 8 weeks. He noted that Countryside Park he thinks the
ice is bad because it is in an east/west orientation whereas Todd Park it would be in a
north/south orientation. Lastly, Braemar doesn’t seem to be feasible because there is no
space to put it right now. Ms. Sitek indicated that the refrigeration issue at Braemar and
Lewis has nothing to do with this decision.
Mr. Fronek asked if it would be possible to table this until next month’s meeting and
receive a report from Mr. Cockriel on their ability to build quality ice over those soil
conditions. He asked is it feasible that they could still get this built before the next
hockey season if they table it another month. Mr. Keprios replied absolutely because it
wouldn’t be built until the fall.
Todd Fronek MOVED TO TABLE THE PROPOSAL UNTIL THE JUNE 14 PARK
BOARD MEETING AND TO HAVE STAFF PROVIDE A REPORT AS TO THE
PARK MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENT’S ABILITY TO BUILD QUALITY ICE AT
TODD PARK. Karla Sitek SECONDED MOTION.
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that just prior to receiving the petition, 99% of the
feedback he had received was positive and supportive. At the time he mailed his
recommendations to the Park Board in his monthly Staff Report, his recommendation
was to go forward with the concept of placing a hockey rink at Todd Park. However,
based on community input that he has seen and heard since then, he will likely have a
different recommendation to be considered at the June Park Board meeting. He noted
that he strongly believes in community input and involvement in the process and believes
that the Edina Park Board and Park and Recreation Department has been receptive and
responsive to community input in the past. He commented that the construction of the
pathway around Todd Park was the result of listening to the neighborhood, plus the
playground equipment was picked out with neighborhood involvement and a Todd Park
neighborhood committee was formed to provide input into the design of the current park
shelter building.
Ray O’Connell CALLED THE QUESTION
MOTION CALLED UNANIMOUSLY
Mr. Keprios noted that what they are trying to impress upon the City Council is that with
issues like this, the Council will defer to and support the Park Board’s recommendations.
He noted that the Park Board has invested a lot of time and effort on this issue, and this is
where the public hearing should take place, and not at the City Council. Mr. Klus
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commented that he is hopeful that our City Council will be receptive and supportive to
our recommendations.
IV. BRAEMAR PARK ARCHERY RANGE PROPOSAL
Mr. Keprios stated that he would like to develop an archery range by the South Metro
Public Safety Training Facility in Braemar Park. He noted that Braemar Park used to
have an archery range before the new nine-hole golf course was built. Since then, he has
received many requests for an outdoor archery range to replace the one that used to be at
Braemar Park. Mr. Keprios explained that he thinks there is enough land to create a very
attractive and safe archery range. He stated that he would have to create a few more
parking stalls and move the fencing out but feels he can get the whole job done with
donations and grant money. Mr. Keprios asked the Park Board if they feel this is
something that would be viable for the community and worth pursuing.
Linda Presthus MOVED TO APPROVE THIS PROJECT IN CONCEPT SO THAT
STAFF CAN FURTHER PURSUE THE FEASIBILITY OF THE SITE. Karla Sitek
SECONDED.
Mr. Finsness asked if this would be self-policing and how does it physically work. Mr.
Keprios replied that it would be free and open to the public as well as it would be self-
policing. He noted that they would put markers in the ground to designate the distance of
each shooting station, and signs with archery range safety rules posted.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
V. BASKETBALL COURT AT LEWIS PARK
Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board the he did measure the park and found that they
would be able to just barely sneak in a full-size basketball court to the west of the new
west athletic field. He indicated that they would probably have to surrender some fairly
mature shade trees but feels this is the only place left in the park where they could
possibly do this.
Mr. Weiss stated that he is looking for a big place where people can go and shoot
basketball. He noted that there are a lot of kids in the neighborhood as well as there are a
lot of people who use the park during the lunchtime and after work. He indicated that if
people want to play a game that’s one thing, however, they could play a half court game
inside the hockey rink. He commented that he thinks a half court or three-quarter court
would be more than ample size.
Ms. Presthus noted that she thought they also discussed the possibility of putting in
removable hoops on the hockey rink. Mr. Keprios replied yes, that right now they could
purchase some standards to overhang at the current Lewis Park hockey rink and put some
15
lines on it and use it to shoot some hoops. He stated that it’s not the best asphalt surface
but they could try to dress that up as best they could. Mr. Weiss commented that he looks
at all of the other basketball courts that have been built and they are all used. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that Eden Prairie puts basketball standards just outside of the rinks
and the baskets overhang into the rink.
Mr. Klus indicated that he thinks this may be something they might want to hear from the
neighborhood on their thoughts regarding this. Mr. Weiss replied that he fully agrees
with that and added that every time a court is built it’s filled up. Ms. Presthus
commented that there are a lot of business people who use the parking lot and park during
the lunch hour and the fields are full. She noted that she thinks it would make more sense
to put it where Mr. Keprios suggested because it would be way into the park.
Mr. Klus commented that maybe it would make more sense if they could find some sort
of mechanism where they could invite neighbors who have an interest in their parks to a
meeting to discuss these types of things for the future. He stated that he knows it’s hard
to get people and is not sure what the best forum would be to do it. Mr. Weiss explained
that the reason he brought this up was because he was asked to give ideas on ways to
improve the parks; it wasn’t necessarily a needs based issue. He indicated that when he
drives by the basketball courts at Utley and Countryside Park they are always packed and
people are waiting on the sides to get on. He noted that Lewis Park has a flat surface, a
nice parking lot and he thinks it’s underutilized. Mr. Klus stated that now they need to
brainstorm an idea to get the neighbors together to see if they are willing to work on it.
Mr. Johnson indicated that he thinks it makes sense to put two hoops up at the hockey
rink and it would be relatively cheap to do. Mr. Klus asked Mr. Weiss what his
recommendation is to the Park Board to which Mr. Weiss responded that if you are
asking for community input then he thinks they should either send out a mailing or put
something in the paper. Mr. Klus stated there is no money to do this so it is something
that would have to come from the neighbors. Ms. Sitek stated that if they don’t have the
money then they should do nothing for now.
Mr. Fronek asked if all of the basketball sites are packed, are there any other places they
should be looking at. He noted that maybe they should approach the Edina Basketball
Association or the Edina Girls Athletic Association to brainstorm on their own of other
places because maybe they need another outdoor basketball court in the city. Mr.
Keprios stated that with their direction staff will further study the issue for project costs
and soil conditions as well as funding options even at Lewis Park but it needs to have
some consensus if this Park Board is willing to look at that issue before he takes staff
time to do it.
Ms. Presthus indicated that unless they do something like the half-court at Heights Park
she personally doesn’t think it’s the greatest place for a basketball court at Lewis Park; it
just doesn’t seem to be an appropriate spot. She commented that she wouldn’t be
opposed to doing something cheap like putting some hoops up and see what happens;
however, she doesn’t want to spend any more money on that site. Mr. Sorem
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commented that he likes that idea of putting the hoops in the hockey rinks and see what
happens. He noted that if it works it might be a cheap alternative to just throw up some
hoops on the paved hockey rinks, paint some lines and see what happens.
Mr. Finsness, Mr. Damman and Mr. O’Connell all agree that they think it’s a great idea.
Mr. Klus stated that he thinks it’s the consensus to have staff look at the cost of adding
some basketball hoops to the hockey rink only. Ms. Presthus added that it would also be
their consensus that they don’t spend any money on doing a feasibility study on the area
at this time.
VI. FUTURE PARK BOARD COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT PROJECTS
Mr. Klus thanked the Park Board members who were able to plant trees on Arbor Day.
He knows it’s not easy for everyone to be able to get out of work to do it. He noted that
it would be great if they could do it again next year only for a couple of hours instead of
just one. Mr. Keprios pointed out that Jennifer Bennerotte wrote an article about what
the Park Board did and took their picture and sent it to the Sun newspaper. Mr. Klus
asked the Park Board if they would like to do something twice a year and if so think of
what you would like to do and they will discuss it at next month’s meeting.
VII. PARK BOARD PARK ASSIGNMENTS AND PRESENTATIONS
Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that the park assignment list has been changed a little
bit. He noted that he would like for Ms. Selleck to have a chance to get to the parks she
is responsible for. He noted that at the next meeting they could decide where they are
going to go from there. Mr. Sorem asked if they could make trades to which it was
noted that would be fine just let Mr. Keprios know so he can update the list.
VIII. UPDATES
A. Conservation League of Edina Presentation – Mr. Klus informed the Park Board that
next month the Conservation League of Edina will be giving a presentation on water
quality.
B. Arneson Acres – Mr. Keprios informed the Park that they had enough money left over
in their capital plan park entrance project that they will able to also improve the upper
parking lot at Arneson Acres Park.
C. Gymnasiums – Mr. Keprios indicated that everything is moving along and the
architect and construction manager are finishing their project cost estimates to give the
Council a dollar amount needed to sell bonds. He noted that the City Council did
approve the conditional use permit. Mr. Keprios stated that they really have to applaud
the City Council and Board of Education for their support and especially Park Board
member Mr. Johnson for carrying the torch on this for us.
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D. Gold Medal Award – Mr. Keprios noted that unfortunately the Edina Park and
Recreation Department was not chosen as a finalist. He stated that we have not decided
yet whether or not they will apply again next year. He noted that his next goal is to make
the Edina Park and Recreation Department an accredited agency, which he will discuss at
a later time.
E. Maetzold Amphitheatre – Mr. Keprios stated that he was proud and pleased to inform
the Park Board that the outdoor amphitheatre at Centennial Lakes has now been renamed
to the Maetzold Amphitheatre. He noted that there would be a dedication for it sometime
in June to which the Park Board will receive a formal invitation.
F. Edina Youth Athletic Associations Meeting - Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board
that they had a wonderful meeting with the Presidents from the youth athletic
associations. He noted that they are going to have a follow-up meeting because the
connecting with kids positional leaders group has expressed an interest in hosting a joint
meeting with the youth athletic association presidents to talk about common issues and
goals involving organized youth athletics. He noted that over-programming our children
is a big issue. There will also be dialogue about how Connecting With Kids can help
educate parents about the real purpose and mission of organized youth sports. Another
goal is to encourage parents to have their kids participate in multiple sports. Mr. Klus
commented that he was disappointed that no one from the Edina Baseball Association
was at the all presidents meeting.
G. Grandview Square Park Development – Mr. Keprios noted that the fund-raising
efforts continue to move right along thanks to help from the Community Foundation and
Sarah Evans from Ron Clark Construction. They are getting close to raising the rest of
the money needed to start construction. They hope to begin construction this summer.
H. Dog Park – Mr. Keprios informed the Park Board that he has made contact with the
anonymous donor to which he has verbally committed to donate $5,000. Mr. Keprios
indicated that the donor is so enthused about this that he wants to contribute more money
to help develop even more off-leash sites.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Karla Sitek MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:20 PM. Ray O’Connell
SECONDED. MEETING ADJOURNED.