HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-03-12 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 p.m.
March 12, 1996
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jean Rydell, Beth Hall, Andrew Montgomery, Dave Crowther,
Andy Herring, Becky Bennett, Bill Jenkins
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Burley, Frank Bennett, Jim Fee, John Dovolis
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, John Valliere
I. APPROVAL OF THE FEBRUARY 13, 1996 MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE FEBRUARY 13, 1996 MINUTES. Andrew
Montgomery SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
II. ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Mr. Montgomery indicated that there is an interest on his part to be
Chairman for a portion of the term. He explained that he had a good
discussion with Mr. Jenkins on this issue. Mr. Montgomery stated that,
as Chairman, Mr. Jenkins is playing an integral role in the referenda.
Therefore, he suggested that whoever is elected as chair should not
begin as Chairman until after the special election. He noted that he
doesn't feel it is right to ask Mr. Jenkins to step down at this time.
Mr. Jenkins indicated that if it weren't for the fact that he is right
now in the middle of the referendum, he would step aside and let Mr.
Montgomery take over. However, being in the middle of the referendum
with all of the meetings and so forth it would be difficult to do.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that according to the By-laws, the Park Board
needs to elect or appoint a Chair and a Vice -Chair at the March Park
Board meeting. He stated that he would like to open nominations for
Chairman.
Beth Hall MOVED TO NOMINATE ANDREW MONTGOMERY FOR CHAIRMAN. Dave
Crowther MOVED TO NOMINATE BILL JENKINS FOR CHAIRMAN.
Jean Rydell MOVED TO CLOSED THE NOMINATIONS. Becky Bennett SECONDED THE
MOTION. NOMINATIONS CLOSED.
Ms. Rydell asked Mr. Jenkins how time consuming the referendum is at
this point in time. Mr. Jenkins replied a lot and Mr. Keprios indicated
that there about a dozen meetings remaining. The Park Board then voted
by paper ballot on their Chairman.
Mr. Keprios announced that Andrew Montgomery has been nominated as the
new Chairman. Mr. Montgomery noted would like to recommend that his
term begin after the special election. He noted that he feels it is
important that Mr. Jenkins finish what he started out to do. Mr.
Montgomery proposed that he accept the chairmanship effective July lst.
Mr. Keprios clarified that Mr. Jenkins will remain the Park Board
Chairman until July lst. Andy Herring MOVED TO ACCEPT THIS. Becky
Bennett SECONDED. MOTION CARRIED.
Mr. Keprios asked the Park Board if they would like to vote for a Vice -
Chairman at this time. Mr. Jenkins asked if anyone would be against
Andrew Montgomery remaining Vice -Chairman and voting for a new Vice -
Chairman at the July Park Board meeting. Andy Herring MOVED TO DELAY
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN DECISION UNTIL THE FIRST MEETING IN JULY. Jean Rydell
SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED.
III. EDINA SCHOOL DISTRICT PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT
Mr. Keprios explained that one of the City Council members has asked
that the Park Board consider including some money in the referendum to
help the elementary schools with their playground equipment project. He
indicated that the Edina School District owns six playground sites;
Normandale, Concord, Creek Valley, Cornelia, Countryside and Highlands.
Out of these six sites, Concord, Creek Valley, Cornelia and Countryside
received $50,000 each last year to replace their playground equipment.
They were told at that time that if they wanted any more than that they
would need to go through fundraising efforts. At this time, Concord has
completed their project and it's in the ground and two of the remaining
have plans to break ground by the first week of May. Mr. Keprios
explained that Cornelia School is the most aggressive one of all and
their plan will cost between $100,000 and $125,000. Their plan is to
break ground on phase one this fall or late summer and then they have
plans to continually add on.
Mr. Keprios noted he has heard a lot of comments and input when giving
referendum presentations to the school PTA groups and neighborhoods. He
indicated that several residents have asked that something be included
in the referendum for the elementary schools' playground equipment plan.
He noted that the resident's perception is, right or wrong, that they
are all taxpayers and they don't care where the money comes from.
Whether they are taxed by the Edina School District or the City of
Edina, it still comes out of their pocket. They noted that the
playground areas serve as a park during non -school hours and therefore,
in their mind, the City should include money for the school playground
sites.
Mr. Keprios noted that in talking over this issue, if the school sites
are to serve as a park and not just serve the schools needs, then like
all of the parks they should serve all ages. They should not serve just
the school age that they are currently designed to do. He explained
they should be able to serve the 1 1/2 year olds on up. Currently, the
majority of the equipment serves primarily the 5 to 12 year old age
group.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that of all the school sites, Cornelia School is
the one joint use park that is a combination school and park more so
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than any of the rest of them. He indicated that what staff is
proposing, if we are in fact going to consider these elementary school
sites as parks during non -school hours, that we should include equipment
that is more age appropriate for the two to four year olds.
Mr. Keprios showed a slide presentation of the different playground
equipment that showed the difference between 5-12 year old use equipment
and the 1 1/2-4 year old use equipment. Mr. Keprios explained that the
younger kids cannot play on a good share of the older kids equipment
because it is too large for them. He noted that the youngest age group
relates to creative play equipment that inspires their imagination.
They can access every piece of creative play equipment and he noted that
we intend to offer more of this equipment in our playground sites. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that Mr. MacHolda did a wonderful job working with
the neighborhood residents of Lewis Park and included creative
playground equipment, as well as, 5-12 year old age-appropriate
equipment to serve all age groups.
Mr. Jenkins asked Mr. Keprios if his thought is to give $20,000 that
would be used for equipment that would be age appropriate for the 2 to 4
year old age group. Mr. Keprios indicated yes, that is what is called
creative play equipment. He indicated that they hope to include a lot
of the creative play equipment in all of the parks.
To find some precedence on the City providing playground equipment at
the school sites, Mr. Keprios indicated that he did some research on
this and found that in 1959 Warren Hyde and the superintendent of
schools exchanged memos during the development of Cornelia School Park.
He noted that the City and school decided that the project would be a
joint venture. It was decided that the school would pay for those
amenities that primarily served the school's needs and the City would
pay for items that served the park needs. Mr. Keprios noted that the
memo read: "The district shall pay the cost on the normal amount of
playground equipment selected by it and customarily provided at a school
of this size and type. The Village shall pay the cost of all additional
playground equipment." Mr. Keprios indicated that this is somewhat open
to interpretation, however, he feels it means that whatever the school
feels they need to serve the schools should be paid for by the school
and anything beyond that is really there primarily for park should be
paid by the City of Edina. Mr. Keprios noted that the City has never
paid for any playground equipment at any elementary school site in the
past that he is aware of.
Mr. Keprios stated that it is the staff's recommendation that, if the
Park Board supports giving funding to the school's playground equipment,
they should give money to have creative playground equipment. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that he has had discussions with quite a few people
including Ted Suss, from the Edina School District business office. He
noted that Mr. Suss replied that the Edina School District would be
happy with whatever the City would be willing to give them. He also
noted that he likes the idea of creative play equipment. Mr. Keprios
then pointed out to the Park Board that they received a letter from Mary
Ellingen, Chairperson of the Playground Equipment Committee at Concord
Elementary. He noted that he followed up by calling Ms. Ellingen and
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asked why she submitted a letter suggesting they would like some
assistance when their project is done and in the ground. Mr. Keprios
noted that her response was they would like even more equipment. She
said that the creative play equipment idea would be fine, however, they
prefer more equipment for the kids who are of school age. Mr. Keprios
indicated that he then asked the question if they have gone back to the
School Board requesting more money. Ms. Ellingen stated that they
wouldn't dare do that because they have higher priorities than that,
such as computers for school classes.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that he received a call from a member of the
Creek Valley playground equipment Committee. He noted that her comment
to him was she is not so sure they want creative play equipment. She
stated that if the City is going to give the school anything they would
rather have $20,000 to serve more of the school age kids. She indicated
that she doesn't know if they want to give up more green space to turn
it into more of a park because they want it to serve more of the
school's needs.
Mr. Keprios noted there was a good turnout at the Countryside PTA
presentation. He stated that one of the reactions was this really is
more of a park than a school during non -school hours. He indicated that
one parent made the comment that after school hours maybe a fence should
be put up so that it really doesn't serve as a park. Mr. Keprios felt
that it came out as a negative and that they somehow feel this is the
City's responsibility now to finish where the school left off.
Mr. Crowther asked where is it written that school equipment can only be
used while school is in session. He noted that people use the schools
night and day and he feels that logic is not solid. Mr. Crowther asked
who has the liability if someone is injured on the equipment and Mr.
Keprios replied that it is the schools liability. Mr. Keprios pointed
out that he has already run that by the administrators at the schools
and we are not obligated to replace anything that we put in and we are
not obligated to any liability and we hold each other harmless by a
previous written agreement.
Mr. Montgomery noted that it seems to him that the older kids would
trash the smaller kid's equipment. Mr. Keprios replied that is also one
of the concerns that Creek Valley has. He then indicated that Cornelia
School wants to put some creative play equipment into their plan because
they feel it's important. Mr. Keprios indicated that philosophically we
need to answer who is responsible and who should be paying for this.
Mr. Jenkins asked if it is bad politically to not have some gesture
along these lines. He noted that his first reaction is lets not do
anything because we have no obligation to do that. Ms. Rydell asked if
we will lose votes on the referendum and Mr. Keprios replied that he
doesn't want it to come across that we are here to buy votes. He is
responding to a request from the City Council and residents. Right or
wrong, it is the perception among some residents that the City of Edina
is the bad guy in all of this and that is why we are here addressing
this issue.
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Ms. Hall pointed out that if a person takes small children to Concord
while school is in session and all of a sudden there is recess these
parents are going to have to take their kids home.
Mr. Crowther noted that it seems to him there is a definite break
between the school and the park even if the properties may be adjoining.
He pointed out that we segregate the liability and that's defined. We
also are not going to be responsible for maintenance upkeep. Mr.
Crowther stated that he feels there is the park system and there is the
school system and that this equipment really is the property of the
school system. He explained that the school is saying they are
responsible for it from a liability standpoint, however, on the same
token they say they can't get enough money from the School Board and
therefore say lets hit the park system up and say it's their
responsibility because we are taxpayers. Mr. Crowther indicated that he
feels these people can go to their School Board because they are elected
officials just like the City Council, and they can beat on them to get
the extra money if they don't feel they are being fairly treated. Mr.
Jenkins pointed out that the city has 39 parks in addition to the
schools.
Mr. Crowther indicated that he also has a problem relative to the issue
that if we were to do this and we don't have enough money we can tap the
Developer's Fund. He noted he feels this is really wrong because if we
can tap the Developer's Fund we either do it or we don't, because if
that money is there and available then we are committed to giving this
money. He noted that he doesn't feel it is right to say we will try to
cut ends or shrink down what we are doing within the referendum and if
we can't do that then we will find it in the Developer's Fund. That is
the wrong message to convey because if we had the money there and it's
available then just give it to them right now and why wait. Why does it
have to be what's left over from the current bond plan.
Mr. Montgomery asked if we give $20,000 to the schools, do we designate
what the money is to be used for. Mr. Keprios replied that, if given a
preference, the schools would prefer to take the cash and add on to and
finish what they started. Mr. Montgomery noted that he doesn't think we
will accomplish our goal having equipment for the 2 to 4 year olds if we
give them $20,000. Mr. Keprios explained that the City would not simply
give them the money. The City would design and control the plan. The
city would be responsible for writing specifications, bidding, buying,
and installing the equipment. At that point they would then walk away
from it.
Mr. Montgomery asked if the City gave any money to the Edina High School
for the tennis courts and Mr. Keprios replied that we did not. He noted
that the City did, however, give them $40,000 of tax increment money to
do the fieldhouse and we gave them $20,000 to do the tennis courts at
the Community Center. Also, the Edina Basketball Association has given
the school $80,000 in the last four to five years. Mr. Montgomery
indicated that his concern is are we establishing a precedent by doing
this. Mr. Keprios replied that, in the past eighteen years, he has
never seen one nickel come from the school this way. He has only seen
funding go from the City to the School. It's not that it's right or
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wrong, it's just that it has always been a one way street and that's the
way the public perceives it too.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that he did talk to the PTA's and the Principles
from all four schools informing them that this would be on the Park
Board's agenda tonight and therefore, they are aware of it. He stressed
to them that if they had strong feelings to either write a note or
better yet attend the Park Board meeting. Mr. Herring also noted that
he received a call from representative of the PTA and he informed that
person to attend the Park Board meeting to explain where they are coming
from. Mr. Herring stated that he would like the minutes to reflect that
there is no one from any of the schools here and that he is very
disappointed.
Mr. Crowther asked how big was the school bond referendum was and it was
noted it was 39 million dollars. He asked why this issue wasn't
incorporated into that referendum and Mr. Keprios indicated that he
cannot answer that. Ms. Hall commented that it makes us look like we
have all this extra money left over so lets put it into the school.
Mr. Herring indicated that he would be inclined to do something,
however, $80,000 is a lot of money. He was thinking of supporting
something more like $5,000 per school. He also pointed out that is not
realistic to install the creative play at the schools because he feels
it will get abused. Mr. Herring explained that he feels contributing
$5,000 to each of their playground equipment plans in recognition of the
fact that people do use these facilities when school is not in session
and we should be supportive of their efforts to upgrade these
facilities. Mr. Herring also pointed out that all of the schools are
also doing fundraisers and that it is not just the school giving
$50,000. There are people who want to improve the facilities for their
kids at the school and it will indirectly benefit the people who
otherwise use those facilities which are constituencies as well. He
noted that he doesn't feel incredibly strong about this, however, he
would like to see the Park Board do something.
Ms. Bennett indicated that she sees it both ways but would agree that
most of the playgrounds on school property are used by the
neighborhoods.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that the Senate just passed a no property tax
increase for 1997, which could potentially mean we can still do the bond
issue, however, we could not sell any bonds until they allow us to raise
the taxes again.
Mr. Crowther indicated that he would be far more inclined to listen to
the seniors who ask for something that we are not addressing than the
School District where they have their own entity and their own method of
raising funds. He noted that it doesn't seem appropriate to him when we
have other needs that we aren't going to be able to address with our
referendum at the current level.
Ms. Rydell asked where the senior center issue is at this point in time
in talking with the YMCA. Mr. Keprios indicated that there have been a
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couple of meetings with the YMCA and they are right now in the middle of
a feasibility study. It is likely that a consultant will soon be hired
to lay out some square footage based on occupancy. He noted that it has
been received extremely favorably by the YMCA and they are very excited.
He also pointed out that the City Council has been very supportive. Mr.
Keprios stated that there are still a lot of details that have to be
worked out.
Dave Crowther MOVED THAT WE ADVISE THE CITY COUNCIL THAT WE ARE NOT IN
FAVOR OF APPORTIONING ANY MONEY TO THE SCHOOLS AT THIS TIME AND THAT
IT'S THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S RESPONSIBILITY AND THAT THEY BE APPROACHED IF
ADDITIONAL FUNDS ARE REQUIRED. Andrew Montgomery SECONDED THE MOTION.
IN FAVOR - 5 - Dave Crowther, Andrew Montgomery, Becky Bennett,
Beth Hall, Bill Jenkins
OPPOSED - 1 - Andy Herring
ABSTAINED - 1 - Jean Rydell
IV. 1996 PARK BOARD MEETING DATES
Mr. Keprios indicated that he has listed the 1996 meeting dates. He
pointed out that the September meeting can meet no earlier than 8:00
p.m. due to the primary election. Also, the Braemar Golf Course
Inspection Tour is scheduled for Tuesday, July 16th. He is assuming the
July 9th meeting may not be necessary and the Park Board can probably
get by with what little business needs to be taken care of either
shortly before or after the Inspection Tour. The park tour departure
time is scheduled for 7:00 p.m. If anyone has any specific sites they
would like to see, please inform Mr. Keprios. Otherwise, Mr. Keprios
will focus on items that will be done during the first year of the bond
issue assuming it passes and we are able to sell bonds.
V. OTHER
A. Lawn Care Seminar - Mr. Keprios handed out a flyer that is part of
the Turf Management Plan. He noted that they will be having a free Lawn
Care Clinic on Thursday, March 28th, to be given by John Hopko. He
explained there has been a tremendous amount of input and support from a
citizens committee, which is now called "Edina Goes Green". They are
really rallying behind this in helping us to promote this well into the
future. Mr. Keprios indicated that he met with Perrin Carpenter, our
Grant Intern from the U of M. She will be working on a study of the
lawn care behaviors of residents by completing a random sample study of
the community. After the education campaign is well along, we are going
to measure the behavior again and see if it made any difference in
residents' lawn care practices. Mr. Keprios also noted that there is a
plan to set up demonstration sites on public and private land throughout
the community as well as do even more of these types of seminars and get
involved in an Earth Day project to promote a healthy environment.
B. Election Ballot - Mr. Montgomery asked if on the election ballot
there is any way to soften the blow by saying a nominal property tax
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increase. Mr. Keprios replied that the City Attorney indicated that by
state law it must be that exact wording. However, when the About Town
goes out and has a sample ballot it will exclude those two paragraphs.
The About Town is scheduled to go out around the first week in April and
will have a wonderful article in it regarding the referendum.
C. Third Rink Issue - Mr. Montgomery asked how the third rink is
coming along and Mr. Keprios replied that it's a tough one to call. Mr.
Montgomery then asked what they can do to help and Mr. Keprios replied
that it's a tough one. He noted that he gets a little shell shocked
when one of the Park Board members say they don't necessarily feel we
need a third sheet of ice. Mr. Keprios explained that his job is to
make sure everyone is informed. He is not supposed to persuade people
as to which way to vote. However, he is obviously very much in favor
it.
D. Phone Bank - Ms. Hall informed the Park Board that the dates for
the Phone Bank will be April 29th and May 6th and will be held at Burnet
Realty and Edina Realty. She noted that there will be an informational
brochure mailed by the City of Edina in mid-April. There will also be a
Citizens' Committee "Get Out and Yes Vote" mailing which volunteers will
do and is expected to go out on April 17th.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
Dave Crowther MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 8:25 P.M. Beth Hall
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.
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