HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-09-10 Park Board Minutes1
EDINA PARK BOARD
8:00 p.m.
September 10, 1996
MEMBERS PRESENT: Andy Herring, Mike Burley, Jim Fee, John Dovolis, Bill
Jenkins, Andrew Montgomery, Jean Rydell, With Almog
MEMBERS ABSENT: Beth Hall, Becky Bennett, Dave Crowther
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT: Pete Anderson
The Park Board went on a tour of the following Parks: Chowen Park, Strachauer
Park, Normandale Park, Heights Park, Countryside Park and Garden Park.
The Park Board meeting began at 8:00 p.m.
I. APPROVAL OF THE AUGUST 13, 1996 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE AUGUST 13, 1996 PARK BOARD
MINUTES. John Dovolis SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED.
Mr. Montgomery expressed his thanks to Mr. Keprios for an excellent tour
to the various facilities and noted that it is nice to see the Bond Referendum
dollars working well.
II. INTRODUCTION OF NEW PARK BOARD MEMBER
Mr. Montgomery welcomed the new Park Board member With Almog who
has taken over for Frank Bennett as the School Board representative.
III. PETE ANDERSON - RESIDENT
Pete Anderson introduced himself as a resident from the Strachauer Park
area and noted that he is only observing the Park Board meeting. He stated
that he would like to compliment Mr. MacHolda and Mr. Keprios for
soliciting input from the neighborhood regarding Strachauer Park.
Mr. Fee asked Mr. Keprios what process he will use to get input from the
Heights Park neighbors before working on their park. Mr. Keprios explained
that he would like to have a plan ready to show the neighbors at a
neighborhood meeting. Mr. Keprios indicated that the Engineering
Department is currently working on shooting all areas of the park so we
know what we are dealing with for contour. Then we will put some ideas
on a park map close to scale and will solicit the Park Board's thoughts
before the neighborhood meeting is held.
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IV. EDINA BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION PROPOSAL
Mr. Keprios explained that the Basketball Association is willing to donate up
to $12,000 to put in a basketball court at Wooddale Park. He noted that in
1986 a small committee of residents in the neighborhood came up with a
master plan. He indicated that the master plan does have a basketball
court, however, there wasn't enough funding available to put one in at that
time. Mr. Keprios explained on the map where the basketball court would
be put in. Mr. Keprios noted that any trees that may be in the way can be
spaded out and relocated. He then indicated that if the Park Board feels
they would like to add this amenity to Wooddale Park, it is staff's
recommendation to send out notices to the residents, which can be done
one of two ways. First, a simple survey can be sent out to be marked yes
or no and then have it sent back in a self-addressed stamped envelope.
Secondly, the neighbors can be invited to the next Park Board meeting for a
brief discussion to hear their thoughts before a recommendation is made.
Mr. Fee asked Mr. Keprios what his feeling is on having a basketball court at
Wooddale Park. Mr. Keprios replied that he feels it would get a lot of use
and has had a lot of requests for it for many years, however, there are
always going to be some people who disagree. It is important though to get
the input of the neighborhood.
Ms. Rydell asked if there is any way a basketball court could be put in at
Utley Park and therefore eliminate some of the neighborhood problems. Mr.
Keprios indicated that his recommendation is not to do that because Utley
Park is more of a picnic site area.
Mr. Keprios explained that at Wooddale Park they are also planning on
putting in a comfort station because one of the biggest problems at the park
is diapers and kids going to the bathroom in the bushes. It will be a small
unisex bathroom with a small area to store baseball field grading equipment.
Mr. Herring indicated that his reaction is this is a park that is used primarily
by parents with little kids and questions adding to the mix basketball being
played by teens and adults. Mr. Keprios stated that there is no question it
will draw more use to the park and hopes that it will serve an age group in
that quadrant that isn't currently being served.
Mr. Burley noted that he grew up in that neighborhood and it is a heavily
populated area with a lot of kids. Mr. Dovolis indicated that he thought it
was one of the highest density areas when it comes to children and Mr.
MacHolda responded that youth programs are very popular at Wooddale
Park.
Mr. Fee asked why Arden Park is not a possible alternative site and Mr.
Keprios responded that it is possible, however, he doesn't know if the
neighbors would want one there. Mr. Burley indicated that these issues
came up when he was on the Basketball Board many years ago when the
money wasn't there to do it. However, now that they have the money it's
imperative to have a basketball court there. Mr. Herring asked Mr. Keprios
if the Basketball Board asked for his input on the location in which he replied
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they asked him what he thought of the idea. Mr. Herring noted that he
doesn't want to find out that all of the Basketball Board members live in the
country club area. Mr. Keprios responded that this is an old issue and the
Basketball Board members live all over Edina. Mr. Keprios indicated that
Wooddale park is a heavily traveled section of Edina where basketball will
gain a lot of exposure.
Mr. Fee MOVED TO GO AHEAD AND PROCEED TO POLL THE
NEIGHBORHOOD AND COME BACK TO THE PARK BOARD WITH THEIR
INPUT. Mr. Keprios asked the Park Board if they would like a survey done
or would they rather have the neighborhood come to the next Park Board
meeting. Mr. Dovolis asked Mr. Keprios what his recommendation would
be. Mr. Keprios indicated that he would like to do a survey with verbiage
on the bottom indicating that based on the results of the survey a decision
will be made to the Park Board at the next Park Board meeting if anyone
feels inclined to show up. John Dovolis MOVED TO ADD THIS TO THE
ORIGINAL MOTION. Bill Jenkins SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
V. PARK REFERENDUM PROJECTS UPDATE
Mr. Keprios pointed out that at the last Park Board meeting he was asked to
put together information on where we are at with all of the projects that are
currently going on. Therefore, a list has been compiled of all the multitude
of projects that are going on as well as what has been accomplished.
Mr. Keprios indicated that the largest construction project is obviously the
new third indoor ice arena. The new south arena is being designed to go
south of the east arena in a north/south orientation with a shared entry
way, new concessions area, off ice training and shared team locker rooms
accessible from both sides. Mr. Keprios stated that with the money
available they are not able to build an Olympic size sheet of ice. Mr. Keprios
explained that right now the bids are coming in at 20% higher than normal
due to a supply and demand in the construction industry.
Mr. Keprios explained to the Park Board the aquatic center bathhouse plans.
He noted that one very nice amenity will be the family changing room. Mr.
MacHolda showed the Park Board the first master plan of the aquatic center
and noted that it obviously will not fit within the dollar amount. Mr.
MacHolda pointed out that the minimum items they will be able to do are:
the bathhouse,. doubling the size the wading pool and renovating the filter
room. Mr. MacHolda showed the original plan as having a sand volleyball
area with lights and fencing to be used beyond the pool season along with a
pathway down to the park. Mr. MacHolda indicated that they also talked
about moving one of the one meter boards and putting in a drop slide as
well as having lap swimming lanes, etc. Mr. MacHolda indicated that he
would also like to put in lily pads with a cargo net above where kids can
challenge themselves to walk across the water. Also, the original plan
expands the perimeter fence and brings in some of the green space and
natural beauty of the park with the trees and shrubbery. He would also like
to double the size of the zero depth pool, have more passive zones for the
real young kids and double the size of the play structure. In addition to this
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he would like to see a 20 ft. deck all the way around as well as have a sand
play area where the kids can play with a shower to pass through before
entering the pool. Mr. MacHolda also expressed the idea of having a sun
lawn area and an area for rental for birthday parties, etc.
Mr. MacHolda indicated that they have had to scale back considerably,
however, he is hoping to get the bathhouse, zero depth pool and renovate
the filtration room. He explained that right now they are projecting
approximately $126,000 over budget.
Mr. MacHolda stated that the original plan was to build a new bathhouse
that would accommodate 1,400 bathers, which is what they averaged last
year. He pointed out that on extremely hot days they have had as many as
4,000 bathers at the pool. Mr. MacHolda expressed his concern of how
many kids they let in the pool and therefore a turnstile will be put in at the
entrance and exit to have an accurate count of bathers so as not to exceed
the bather limit.
Mr. Herring asked what the cost would be to have everything and Mr.
MacHolda replied that he doesn't think it would be that much more, possibly
$75,000. Mr. Keprios pointed out that it is something that can be worked
towards in the future.
Ms. Almog asked if the aquatic center makes money and Mr. MacHolda
replied that the last three years they have done extremely well. Mr. Keprios
noted that Mr. MacHolda has been able to pay his debt service, meet
operation expenses and clear $100,000. Mr. Burley pointed out that the
money cleared does not go back into the pool but goes directly into the
general fund.
Mr. Montgomery indicated that he would like to keep these options available
down the road. Mr. MacHolda noted that even though we don't have the
money to go forward with the master plan at this time, now is the time we
need to put in the piping for the master plan so we don't have to go back
and tear up the concrete. However, it is unfortunate that we are not going
to able to do that.
Mr. MacHolda stated that St. Louis Park is under construction right now to
build an aquatic center and they are a community that sees 1/4 of the
business that Edina sees. He noted that St. Louis Park is spending
approximately 2.5 million on the whole pool project. Mr. MacHolda pointed
out that St. Louis Park's pool was built in 1974 and they have ripped
everything out and are starting over because the competition pool does not
attract people. You need shallow water and water in motion. Ms. Rydell
asked how much business are we going to lose to St. Louis Park and Mr.
MacHolda responded that we could lose a lot.
Mr. Jenkins asked if the aquatic center would be a fairly self-sustaining
enterprise facility and Mr. MacHolda replied most definitely. Mr. Dovolis
indicated that we should be doing the things that are needed such as the
piping to make this a reality.
Mr. Montgomery asked how do the admissions for the area pools compare
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to ours and Mr. MacHolda responded they are about the same. Mr.
MacHolda pointed out that he sells twice as many season tickets as
anybody else. This year almost 3,000 season tickets were sold and they
had $385,000 in total revenue compared to five years ago when it was
approximately $140,000.
Mr. Montgomery noted that he would like the Park Board to entertain a
motion that would recommend a plan that is not going to reduce the options
available to us.
Mr. Jenkins asked if this project would be taken out of the bond money or
where would it come from. Mr. Dovolis indicated that Mr. MacHolda will
probably have to do some sort of projections and look down the road to see
what sort of revenues can be generated and if it can be a self-sustaining
facility. Mr. Dovolis then asked Mr. MacHolda if he has any projections.
Mr. MacHolda responded that he is blown away by how the last three years
have gone and noted that this year again was a gift from God as far as
weather. He indicated that they exceeded last years total revenue by
$30,000 yet were down 13,000 in visitors. However, over 100,000 visited
the aquatic center compared to just a few years ago when there were
50,000 to 60,000 visitors. Mr. Dovolis again asked if some sort of
projections could be made to see if it could be self-sustaining and Mr.
MacHolda noted that he certainly has kept all of the numbers.
Ms. Rydell asked what is the demographics of the younger population and it
was noted that it is growing.
Mr. Keprios stated that one of the unknowns is what is going to happen to
our business when St. Louis Park opens their new facility. Mr. Dovolis
brought up the point that we are always going to have competition. Mr.
Fee pointed out that he doesn't see us losing a lot of business because the
St. Louis Park location is hard to get to and there is a lot of traffic. Mr.
Keprios indicated that he and Mr. MacHolda would love to see the master
plan accomplished some day and it is something to work towards, however,
there is no money at this time to do it. Mr. Montgomery stated that he
doesn't want to see us close the door.
Mr. Burley asked do we want a quick fix for an aging pool instead of
altering a new exciting pool area. Mr. Keprios indicated that he doesn't
know what the bids are going to come in at. He indicated that Mr. Burley
pointed out that city is putting $100,000 into a putting surface at
Centennial Lakes which he is not too sure about. He indicated that they
seemed to find the money to do that. However, the city is $75,000 short
to build a better pool. He stated that he is frustrated by the system and
asked how do we pass into other money.
Mr. Dovolis indicated that hopefully Mr. MacHolda and Mr. Keprios can put
this together so we can look at it again down the road. Mr. Keprios asked if
it would be appropriate to ask a representative from the Park Board to meet
with himself, Mr. MacHolda and Mr. Rosland to go over where we are at.
Ms. Rydell asked about taking money from the Developer's Fund for this
project and Mr. Keprios noted that the Park Board could make that
recommendation. She then asked how much money is in the Developer's
Fund and it was noted there is over $400,000.
Mr. Dovolis asked how do we progress from here and Mr. Keprios replied
we need to have a representative from the Park Board meet with Mr.
Rosland. It was noted that Mr. Dovolis and Mr. Montgomery will attend a
meeting with Mr. Rosland, Mr. Keprios and Mr. MacHolda.
Mike Burley MOVED TO RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY CONSIDER
EXPANDING THE CURRENT BUDGET TO LOOK FOR A MORE BROADER
SWIMMING POOL FACILITY FOR A MORE EXCITING AQUATIC CENTER.
John Dovolis SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Keprios if there are any other projects he has a
concern with at this time. Mr. Keprios responded that most of the projects
are right on schedule.
VI. LEWIS PARK PLANS
Mr. Keprios explained that the City has hired a new Assistant City Engineer
and his name is Wayne Houle. He noted that Mr. Houle's main focus right
now is to help us get through all of the park construction, writing
specifications, drawing park plans, drawing up conceptual things, writing
specs for fencing, and a multitude of projects. He indicated that Mr. Houle
has been a tremendous help. Mr. Keprios pointed out that Mr. Houle quickly
drew up a conceptual plan of Lewis Park. Mr. Keprios then explained the
layout of the park on the map. Mr. Keprios reminded the Park Board that at
their last meeting they asked staff to come up with some ideas regarding
where we might put certain amenities in the park. He noted that staff was
asked to place a basketball court where it might best fit the site. He then
indicated on the map where they plan on putting the comfort station so it
can serve everyone.
Mr. Keprios explained that Lewis Park really is not a good area to put in a
sand volleyball court unless one day we eliminate the bandy rink. Mr.
Jenkins stated that there should be a sand volleyball court but the location
for it should be at the aquatic center. Mr. Herring agreed that is a great
idea and Mr. Keprios noted the aquatic center is really where it belongs.
Mr. Montgomery asked if the basketball court at Lewis Park would be more
for the neighborhood or would it be a basketball court people would drive
to. Mr. Burley responded that he thinks it would be more for the
neighborhood.
Mr. Herring indicated that he recently was at Lewis Park for flag football and
noted that he was skeptical at first, however, he now feels it is the perfect
location for a basketball court. Mr. Herring also pointed out that at the flag
football game the play area was very wet and thinks there may be an
irrigation problem. Mr. Dovolis brought up the point that he was
approached by a few football coaches indicating that the grass needs to be
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cut. Mr. Keprios noted that he will look into both issues.
Andy Herring MOVED THAT WE FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION
John Dovolis SECONDED THE MOTION. Mr. Keprios asked the Park Board
that before they vote one thing to think about is the basketball court for this
site was not originally part of the park bond plan. Therefore, he would
prefer to take the money for this project out of the Developer's Fund and
have that be part of the recommendation. Mr. Keprios explained the reason
he feels this way is people may start questioning why we are changing the
plan on them and that is not what they voted for. People may also be upset
if we put in a new basketball court where there has never been one and yet
still have park amenities throughout the park system still in need of repair.
All along we have told the community that we would repair or replace the
worn park amenities first before adding new ones.
Mr. Montgomery questioned why the neighbors are being surveyed on
having a basketball court at Wooddale Park but the neighbors are not being
surveyed on having a basketball court at Lewis Park. Mr. Keprios indicated
that we could certainly canvas the neighborhood, however, he doesn't think
there is going to be any controversy at Lewis Park. Mr. Fee pointed out
that Lewis Park is not the same type of park as Wooddale Park. Mr. Keprios
also stated that Mr. and Mrs. Lykken already came to the Park Board with
their thoughts and noted that they intended to canvas the neighborhood.
Mr. Montgomery asked if we need to be concerned with the people living in
the condominiums and Mr. Keprios responded that is a good point and the
condominium area can be canvassed. The Park Board then asked why
bother. Mr. Montgomery asked if a decision has to be made as to whether
or not the dollars come from the Developer's Fund and Mr. Keprios noted he
would like that recommendation. The Park Board indicated they may not
want to take money from the Developer's Fund if they are going to ask for
money from the Developer's Fund for the aquatic center.
Mr. Keprios stated there is over $400,000 in the Developer's Fund which is
enough money to do all of it. Mr. Burley asked what is the purpose of
holding onto the money and it was noted to be used as a back up because
when the bond money is gone there will be very little money coming in. Mr.
Jenkins asked approximately how much is needed for the aquatic center and
Mr. MacHolda guessed it would be approximately $75,000 to $100,000
depending on the bids. It was also noted that it would cost approximately
$12,000 for the basketball court at Lewis Park.
Mr. Burley asked how realistic is it that the City Council will allow $200,000
to go out of the Developer's Fund. Mr. Keprios indicated that we will have
to wait and see how the bids come in and the meeting with Mr. Rosland and
the Park Board members will help give the Park Board some more insight
and direction. Mr. Keprios pointed out that if necessary, there are some
other alternatives. We can lease to own the filtration system which would
be $200,000 right there or there could be revenue bonds, which is a City
Council decision. Mr. Jenkins added that this would be a classic case for
revenue bonds. Mr. Herring indicated that if this issue was explained to the
community he feels there would be an overwhelming positive reaction that
we should do it right. He stated that he agrees it doesn't have to be the
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cadillac but it does need to be done right.
Mr. Keprios noted that part of the problem is that we saved money by not
hiring professional architects or engineers to do cost analysis at the front
end. However, we are now being held to numbers that were simply our
best guess. He stated that, unfortunately, we guessed too low.
Mike Burley MOVED TO ADD AN AMENDMENT TO THE ORIGINAL
RECOMMENDATION. AMENDMENT: TO FINANCE THE BASKETBALL
COURT AT LEWIS PARK FROM THE DEVELOPER'S FUND. John Dovolis
SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
VII. SHELTER BUILDING TASK FORCE
Mr. Keprios explained to the Park Board that an architect has been hired to
work on the seven new shelter buildings. He indicated that he will seek
community input and get residents involved at the very beginning. Mr.
Keprios stated that four of the buildings will be similar to the warming
houses with restroom facilities and a place to change skates. The rest of
the design is yet to be determined. Mr. Keprios noted that hopefully we can
save some costs and have all of the buildings be the same.
Mr. Keprios then explained the three comfort stations that will be built at
Lewis Park, Garden Park and Wooddale Park. They will probably consist of
a unisex bathroom with a small utility room for storage. Mr. Keprios noted
that he would like to have at least one Park Board member as part of a task
force on the shelter buildings as well as have one person from each of the
four neighborhoods where there will be a shelter building facility: Cornelia
School, Walnut Ridge, Todd and Weber. Mr. Keprios indicated that once
they have the plans to show everyone there will be one meeting with each
of the neighborhoods at which time they will kill all birds with one stone. It
will not just be for the shelter buildings but for all of the items that are
planned for their particular park. Mr. Keprios indicated that he is asking for
the Park Board to recommend that staff go forward with this process.
Mr. Jenkins asked if the hired architect has done any other community
shelter type buildings and Mr. Keprios responded that he has done Eden
Prairies and has a lot of experience in architecture.
Mr. Montgomery and Mr. Dovolis noted that they would both be happy to
help out with the task force.
VIII ADJOURNMENT
Jean Rydell MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:15 P.M. Bill Jenkins
SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.