HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995-12-12 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 p.m.
December 12, 1995
MEMBERS PRESENT: Dave Crowther, John Dovolis, Jim Fee, Beth Hall,
Andrew Montgomery, Jean Rydell, Becky Bennett,
MEMBERS ABSENT: Bill Jenkins, Mike Burley, Andrew Herring, Frank Bennett
STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, Susan Weigle
OTHERS PRESENT: Marjorie Ruedy, Burton Ruedy, Jane Michael, Allen
Carlson, Lori Carlson, Bob Kojetin, Charlotte Burrell,
Gloria Cunningham, Lila Larson, Harold Larson, Helen
Honmyhr, Catherine Mulholland, Carl Carlson
I. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 14, 1995 MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER 14, 1995 MINUTES.
Beth Hall SECONDED THE MOTION. Minutes Approved.
II. COMMUNITY INPUT TOWN MEETING (ALL PARKS INCLUDED)
Mr. Keprios showed the slide presentation to the audience.
Mr. Montgomery asked if anyone in the audience had any questions
regarding the slide presentation or bond referendum. Jane Michael noted
that the presentation is superb, however, she is interested in the number of
kids who use the facilities because the slide presentation did not show the
number of kids that are packed into the facilities. She pointed out that she
has been using these facilities for the last 30 years and they are crowded.
Mr. Keprios explained that there are statistics on all scheduled activities as
well as all season tickets sold and daily admissions sold. However, they are
not funded to monitor the unscheduled leisure use at the local parks. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that in 1988 a survey was done regarding the park
system and there are figures available on how often people use the parks.
He noted that the survey shows approximately 90% of the people who live
in the city at some point in a years time use the park system, which
indicates they are heavily used.
Al Carlson indicated that he was unable to attend the Todd Park meeting,
however, it looks like a small price to pay for what they are getting and he is
looking forward to it.
Burt Ruedy indicated that he and his wife have adopted Todd Park and
therefore spend a lot of time working at the park. He stated that he sees a
lot of small children and their mothers using the facility which is in great
need of improvement and he is very glad to see this undertaking.
Mr. Keprios stated that a large section of the population from the Todd Park
meeting felt strongly that they would like a shelter building and hockey rink.
However, it was clear that a smaller section of the population indicated they
would rather see pathways and a picnic shelter. Mr. Keprios pointed out
that there was a lot of good input from all of the residents. He stated that
clearly the message from the Todd Park area residents was they need new
playground equipment, they need to update the tennis courts and they no
longer want adult activities scheduled at the park, they would rather see
youth activities scheduled there. Mr. Keprios explained that the staff's
response was we would be happy to do that, however, there is safety
concern with regards to scheduling youth vs. adults at the park. He noted
that the adults are more safety conscious than are children when they are
limited to just on street parking. Mr. Keprios also indicated that the City of
Edina owns the house that is on park property at Todd Park and it will be
coming down August 1, 1996. He noted that the current plan is to seed or
sod the vacated area until we see what the outcome of the bond issue is and
then possibly have a task force work on a plan that may include the addition
of a parking lot.
Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Keprios to share with audience how many dollars
the Park Department has available in the normal budget process. Mr.
Keprios explained that in a years time the City Council allocates $180,000 a
year for a capital plan for all 39 parks. However, the revenue facilities have
to generate their own capital. They are in charge of that responsibility and
some of them can not make it because they are also responsible to pay off
their own operating expense and debt payment.
Mr. Keprios informed the audience that if they have any further comments to
send them to him in writing because he passes everything on to the Park
Board and City Council.
Mr. Dovolis indicated that he would like to commend the staff for the
excellent job they are doing with the presentation of the slide show and the
community meetings. He has heard nothing but positive input. Mr. Fee
noted that everything has been well done. Mr. Keprios stated that a lot of
credit is due to Dave Crowther who showed up at all of the meetings and
was very helpful. He noted that he appreciated him taking the time to be at
those meetings.
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Mr. Montgomery asked if the general feeling has been all positive so far. Mr.
Keprios answered that the majority have been much like we just heard,
however, people obviously have special concerns within their own particular
parks.
III. ACTIVITY CENTER PROPOSAL
Lila Larson handed out the proposal to the Park Board and noted that it is
presented for the sole purpose of developing a strategy to facilitate the
construction of a multi-purpose building to house the Edina Senior Center.
Ms. Larson indicated that the Senior Center Advisory Council would like to
"piggy back" a request for funds on the recently approved bond referendum.
She noted that the Edina Senior Center Advisory Council proposes that
funding in the amount of $2.5 million be set aside for the construction of a
free-standing Senior Center building. She indicated that everything she was
going to say is listed in the proposal.
Ms. Larson explained that there are two pieces of property that the City
already owns where they would like to possibly see a free standing Senior
Center be built. She noted one is at Lake Cornelia Park and other is on York
Avenue. Ms. Larson pointed out there are undoubtedly more than 9,000
senior citizens in Edina and the Senior Center has less than 1,500 paid
members. Ms. Larson indicated there are multiple reasons for why they
would like to have a free standing building much like other communities in
the area do. Ms. Larson stated that a lot of the surrounding communities
pay more attention to transportation to get their people to the center where
Edina has no transportation. Ms. Larson noted that the current Senior
Center has all the warmth and charm of an old high school building.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he met with the Advisory Council last Wednesday
and noted that it was a very positive discussion and he received some really
good feedback. Mr. Keprios stated that Mr. Hughes, Assistant City Manger,
is the chair of the YMCA Board and is warm to the thought of possibly a
joint venture at the YMCA. He explained that the YMCA is refocusing their
vision on the populations that they are targeting and one of which is seniors
and the other target age group is the 10 to 14 year olds. He indicated that
the YMCA may be interested in a possible joint venture at the Yorktown
YMCA site. Mr. Keprios suggested that maybe we could work a deal to add
on to their facility through some other creative funding that wouldn't
necessarily have to involve this particular bond issue, however, a needs
assessment should be done first. This is one possible option. Ms. Larson
noted that she is sure there are other options. She explained how she
recently attended a one day seminar on inter -generational dynamics and she
has found out there are a lot of creative things we could be doing.
Mr. Montgomery asked if this item can be "piggy backed" on the referendum
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at this stage. Mr. Keprios replied that anything is possible, however, it is a
little late in the game but if it is something you would like the City Council to
consider you can recommend it to them.
Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Keprios where he would visualize a free standing
Senior Center at Lake Cornelia. Mr. Keprios replied they are considering
where the sand volleyball courts are now and that they would have to
somewhat expand the parking lot. Mr. Montgomery asked what kind of a
footprint is being talked about and Mr. Keprios indicated that they are
currently talking about a 10,000 square foot facility. Currently the Senior
Center has 7,040 square feet. Mr. Fee asked what would a facility like this
cost and Mr. Keprios indicated that he doesn't think it would cost 2.5
million. We noted it would probably be approximately $100 a square foot,
however, it also depends on the type of facility that is being built.
Mr. Fee asked what's the implication of the five year lease with the
Community Center. Mr. Keprios explained that part of the stipulation when
they renew the lease for another five years beginning January 1, 2001 is
they will charge us over $17,000 a year in today's dollars for the cost of
maintenance and upkeep. Mr. Keprios stated that in all honesty that isn't
reason enough to go out and build our own facility in a hurry. He indicated
that it's actually a pretty good deal as far as operational expenses. Mr.
Keprios pointed out that we would most definitely incur an awful lot more
than that if we owned our own facility and had to maintain our own heat,
light, power, janitor, etc. Ms. Bennett asked if at this point we aren't
charged anything. Mr. Keprios indicated that the way the first contract was
written is we would not pay anything. It was noted that the City used
CDBG money to put in the elevator and the City of Edina put in an additional
$100,000 to upgrade the third floor. He also pointed out that Community
Education does use the Senior Center area for some of their programs.
Mr. Montgomery asked if the Fire Department would take over the tennis
court location at Yorktown Park and a Senior Center would take over the
softball field location at Yorktown Park. Mr. Keprios stated that that is very
likely. He indicated that this is actually an ideal site because it's where the
majority of the senior population is located. However, as far as aesthetics,
Lake Cornelia is a more beautiful site. Mr. Montgomery indicated that he has
a problem identifying a 100 ft. by 100 ft. footprint in Lake Cornelia with all
of the other things that are there.
Ms. Michael asked the Park Board if they would embrace the concept rather
than just table it or put it aside. Mr. Montgomery stated that he thinks the
Park Board needs to digest this a little bit. He noted that at this time without
a presentation he would assume that the Park Board would have to have
some more information before it can be brought before the City Council for
any kind of recommendation. Mr. Montgomery explained that he has been
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on the Park Board for a while and the Senior Center is something where a lot
of time has been spent trying to improve it. He noted that he thinks it's
better now, but obviously it certainly can be even better when you compare
us to what other communities have to offer. Ms. Michael asked if there is
anything the Park Board would like the seniors to do as a group to help the
Park Board better understand where we are coming from.
Mr. Keprios pointed out that Jane Michael is a very active volunteer in that
she serves on the Referendum Team appointed by the Mayor and also serves
on the Senior Citizen Advisory Committee.
Mr. Crowther asked if they could get a better understanding of where the
2.5 million dollar figure came from. Ms. Larson noted it's a starting figure.
Mr. Crowther asked what is going to come from the $2.5 million and how
was the number arrived at. Ms. Larson indicated that right now it's strictly
an estimate but she's hoping that it not only covers the facility but some of
the basic furnishings. She noted that it could be a larger number or it could
be a smaller number, she doesn't know what it's going to be. Mr. Keprios
pointed out that it all depends on what everyone wants the facility to be in
order to come up with a figure. He stated that there is obviously a lot of leg
work that needs to be done and if the Park Board and City Council want to
embrace this concept, he would be more than happy to do the necessary
research.
Ms. Bennett asked what are some of things that other communities have for
their senior citizens. Ms. Larson indicated that her husband has been going
around taking pictures of the free standing Senior Centers in the area. She
noted that most of them are larger and more extensive than ours and the
biggest thing they seem to have which Edina does not is transportation. Ms.
Larson pointed out that you walk into any of these centers and they are
swarming with people. She stated that at the Edina Senior Center they have
two men who are usually at the pool table where you can hardly get on a
pool table at Bloomington.
Ms. Larson commented that what they do have is well done and that they
couldn't ask for a better Director than Susan Weigle. Ms. Larson pointed out
that, if it wasn't for Susan, the place would be awful. She stated that when
you are up there alone the place is spooky. Ms. Larson also indicated that
she recently had knee surgery and pointed out that it's a long way up to the
Senior Center and that it has so many drawbacks.
It was asked if Edina has some sort of transportation and Mr. Keprios
indicated that we do have a senior bus, however, it is not used to transport
people to the Senior Center. It's basically used to get people to their doctor
appointments and the grocery store. Ms. Larson pointed out that the drivers
are volunteer drivers. Mr. Fee asked Ms. Larson what they envision as far
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as transportation, would they want to see the seniors picked up at their
homes or at different locations. Ms. Larson replied that she's not real sure,
however, she would think they would be picked up at home and have it
work similar to the Metro Mobility program. Mr. Montgomery asked if most
seniors live in a condo or in their own individual home. It was noted the
majority of them are in their own homes.
Charlotte Burrell indicated that she is also on the Senior Citizen Advisory
Council and pointed out that the trend is they are trying to keep people out
of nursing homes. Therefore, they are going to get more and more people
coming to the senior centers and she feels we need to plan ahead because
the senior population has really increased.
Mr. Fee asked if the Park Board should get some sort of direction from the
City Council as to possibly formulating a joint venture committee with the
Park Board, seniors and whoever else they feel would be appropriate. Mr.
Dovolis noted that he embraces the idea of having a joint venture with the
seniors and Park Board so there is some discussion and we all know what
we are talking about.
Mr. Fee MOVED THAT WE GET INPUT FROM THE CITY COUNCIL AS TO
WHAT TYPE OF DIRECTION THEY WOULD LIKE THE PARK BOARD, THE
SENIOR CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND ANY OTHER APPROPRIATE
GROUP TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT WE NEED TO DO WITH RESPECT TO
A MORE PERMANENT SENIOR FACILITY. John Dovolis SECONDED THE
MOTION.
Ms. Rydell explained that, when the Senior Center lost their lease on the
high rise and had to find an alternative location, the City Council had limited
options in determining where the Senior Center could be located. She noted
that the Community Center was basically the only available spot at that
time.
Mr. Fee stated that he would recommend that the Park Board give the City
Council the proposal from the Edina Senior Advisory Council and that they
then give us some type of direction as to how we should proceed in
reviewing alternatives. Mr. Dovolis asked Mr. Keprios if he would work with
the senior citizens and see what other communities are doing and what other
facilities are available to seniors in the surrounding communities. Mr. Fee
indicated that he is sure the City Council will tell us to put a task force
together which will have this type of information.
Carl Carlson pointed out to the Park Board how vitally important the seniors
are to the success of the bond issue. He noted that seniors are the voters
who go out and vote and represent a rather high proportion of the voting
population in all communities. He explained that he feels the success or
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failure of the bond issue depends a great deal on the seniors. Mr. Fee
explained that the Park Board is in favor of helping the seniors, however,
some direction is needed from the City Council because the Park Board is
strictly an advisory body.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
IV. FORESTRY
Mr. Dovolis indicated he had a question regarding the Forestry Department.
He asked if the City of Edina does anything with injections to save trees.
Mr. Keprios explained that where it's helpful for the prevention or transfer of
Oak Wilt they have tried it. He noted that we have a contract with Kunde
Tree Company and they will either use the vibrating plow or some injection,
it's up to their professional recommendation. Mr. Dovolis stated that he
thinks it's been proved over the years that it does help.
IV. PARK BOND REFERENDA RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COUNCIL
Mr. Montgomery asked if there is any organized opposition to the
referendum and Mr. Keprios indicated there is not at this time.
Mr. Fee asked if there were any comments regarding the third hockey rink.
Mr. Crowther indicated that to summarize what he heard at the meetings is
there was almost no comment on it. He noted that a few of the older folks
commented on the hockey portion of the referendum and their questions
where generally probing at why don't these things make enough money to
pay for themselves. He noted that generally people were in favor of it or
didn't express an opinion. However, the bulk of the discussions were
approximately 95% about the specific parks and what each park was going
to get. Mr. Crowther pointed out that there is definitely a desire to have
permanent restrooms as opposed to satellites. Also, everyone is concerned
about parking in the neighborhood parks. Mr. Crowther also noted that
everyone wants a hockey rink and are in favor of paving the hockey rinks so
they have a place for in-line skating.
Mr. Keprios indicated that another common question was how did we get to
where we need to have to borrow money to replace worn infrastructure. Mr.
Crowther explained that at the meetings people first wanted their own
individual desires. However, they then looked at the bigger picture and said
why don't we do a bigger referendum and do it right as opposed to
skimping. They feel it's not going to all get done with the current dollars
that are allocated. Also, there was a real concern about the maintenance
and if we put all of this money in are we going to be sure that we maintain
it. Mr. Crowther noted there were quite a few criticisms at all of the
meetings about the overall maintenance of the parks. He indicated that they
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had to explain to the people that we don't have the staff and money. He
indicated that it's hard for people to buy into the deal and if they vote for
more money they want to make sure that everything is going to get
maintained. Also, people are concerned about how everything is going to
get prioritized as to what gets done first, second, third etc.
Mr. Fee asked what is the period of time on this. Mr. Keprios replied that he
talked with the City Attorney and was told there is no law on the books that
says you have a limited amount of time if you use "due diligence." In other
words, if you can prove you are making progress and not using it to make
money there is no law that governs that. However, Mr. Keprios noted that
he hopes the job can get done in three years or less.
Mr. Crowther asked if there was any way a senior center could be tied in the
three sheet of ice at Braemar. Mr. Keprios indicated that probably not
because it would be the furthest location from the majority of the senior
population.
Mr. Keprios indicated that he will be showing the slide show the School
District administrative staff on Tuesday, January 9th because they have
asked to see it. He noted that he will also be showing the slide show to the
City Council on Tuesday, December 19th.
Mr. Keprios stated that some of the things that people said at the meetings
were if we don't get our requested additions, we are not voting for it. Mr.
Dovolis noted that the phone calls he received basically indicated that we are
not doing enough. Mr. Crowther explained that Mr. Keprios addressed this
topic at the various meetings and when people asked why is it so bad, he
asked them if they have ever been to a Truth -In -Taxation meeting. "Have
you ever asked the City Council to increase your taxes so that we can
improve the maintenance of our parks?" He stated that many people just
don't understand the process. People seem to rely on staff to be their
advocates for what is needed in the park system.
Mr. Crowther pointed out that the Park Board could recommend to the City
Council that we increase the amount, however, he doesn't have a clue what
the number should be. However, there is no question that there is a solid
group of people who would be in favor of doing more as opposed to less.
Ms. Bennett indicated that it might be a mistake to not ask for more because
we won't get a second chance for quite awhile. Mr. Dovolis indicated that
the last one was 40 years ago.
Mr. Crowther noted that out of the 4.9 million we may only get 4.6 million
because all of the expenses have to come out of it. Mr. Keprios indicated
that he just talked to the City Attorney and was told that if they approve the
4.9 million, the City Council has the authority to raise the issue another 2%
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to pay for the expenses such as sale of the bonds and election costs.
Mr. Montgomery stated that it seems to him that the Park Board feels that
$4.9 million is slight and asked how that might be changed. Mr. Keprios
indicated that his initial recommendation was slightly more than $5.3 million
and the City Council decided long ago that their comfort zone at that time
was $4.9 million. Mr. Fee noted if they change the amount from $4.9
million now that it's been published it may backfire. Mr. Crowther
suggested that possibly the better message would be that we realize that
$4.9 million is light, however, why don't we look at how we are going to up
our ongoing dollars for maintenance so that we can keep everything up to
standard. Mr. Dovolis indicated that money should be set aside a certain
degree for improvements to parks and infrastructure of the parks. Mr. Fee
explained that he has talked with the Mayor about that issue and he will
attend one of the Park Board meetings to explain the City Council's
philosophy on this.
VI. OTHER
A. University of Minnesota Grant - Mr. Keprios indicated that the
University of Minnesota is going to be offering us a $19,000 grant to staff a
person to work toward our turf management plan and further study it. He
noted that person will make recommendations and set up test sites. Mr.
Keprios explained that the grant will be coming in written form within the
next few weeks for the City Council's approval and he will be passing that
on to the Park Board and City Council when he receives it.
B. Athletic Programs - Mr. Montgomery asked if all of the winter athletic
programs are going along okay. It was noted that all is well and that
Centennial Lakes opens for public skating on December 15th and the other
11 outdoor skating sites will be opening on December 16th.
C. Dog Sled Rides - Mr. MacHolda stated that on December 26th at the
Braemar Golf Course driving range there will be dog sled rides from 9:30
a.m. until 12:00 p.m. He indicated there were 80 tickets and it was noted
that there are no more tickets available.
D. Arena Ice Fees - Mr. Crowther thanked Mr. Keprios for sending the
Park Board the information on the ice rates. He noted he was happy to see
Edina is very much right in the ball park and the Park Board shouldn't waste
time worrying about the rates when staff recommends them. He stated that
staff does their homework and we should buy into that. Mr. Keprios
thanked Mr. Crowther for the comment and replied that staff will do a better
job next year in providing the Park Board with surveys pertaining to fees and
charges. In addition, all Park and Recreation Department management staff
will be present during adoption of fees and charges.
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VII. ADJOURNMENT
Dave Crowther MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:15 P.M. Jean
Rydell SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED.
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