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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-11-08 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD 8:00 p.m. November 8, 1994 MEMBERS PRESENT: Andrew Herring, Jean Rydell, Andrew Montgomery, Beth Hall, Ernie Fischer, Dave Crowther, Becky Bennett, John Dovolis, Bill Jenkins MEMBERS ABSENT: Bill Lord, Jim Fee STAFF PRESENT: John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Janet Canton, John Valliere OTHERS PRESENT: Richard Coonrod, Harvey Dow, Theodore Hanson, Gary Zachman, Erin Zachman I. APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER 13. 1994 MINUTES Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE SEPTEMBER 13, 1994 MINUTES. Ernie Fischer SECONDED THE MOTION. MINUTES APPROVED. II. BRAEMAR TENNIS COURTS - RICHARD COONROD Mr. Keprios distributed a letter that he received from Richard Coonrod. The letter indicated that the Braemar area residents will contribute 30% of the renovation/reconstruction cost, not to exceed $3,500, to restore Braemar's tennis courts to recreational playing condition. Mr. Coonrod stated that he doesn't have a lot to add to the letter. He pointed out that he feels there is a significant interest in the preservation of the Braemar tennis courts. He also noted that he hopes the willingness to contribute for the restoration would influence the Park Board's decision to reverse their call on the asset. Mr. Coonrod indicated that he believes the asset is of significantly greater value than they can justify in tearing it out. He also explained that the numbers indicate it would be in excess of $37,000 to replace that kind of an asset in this community. He then noted that if he didn't think he could go to the community and raise these funds he wouldn't be here. Mr. Coonrod stated that if the Park Board has some question about this he would be glad to personally make a contribution and take the risk himself. Mr. Coonrod went on to explain that the tennis courts are in the right place, however, they have not been used because they have not been maintained. There are a lot of people who would certainly enjoy the benefit of the asset over time. Mr. Fischer asked if there would be any feeling of preferential treatment or priority on the part of those who donate money towards this project. Mr. Coonrod replied there would absolutely be none. Mr. Herring asked Mr. Keprios what the maintenance costs are beyond the upgrade. Mr. Keprios indicated that the way they should be maintained is a minimum of every four years. However, we are not currently funded to keep up with that kind of a schedule. Every six to seven years approximately $3,500 to $4,000 is spent per battery of two courts. Mr. Montgomery stated that he and Ms. Rydell reviewed all of tennis courts in Edina. He noted that as an individual he has played tennis for the last 20 years in Edina and has seen a decline in the sport. Mr. Montgomery indicated that Braemar is a beautiful setting for a tennis court but there are a lot of other tennis courts that are nearby. Mr. Coonrod noted that he disagrees with Mr. Montgomery on the accessibility issue. He stated that there are a lot of children in the area who would have to ride their bicycles a mile and a half to get to those other courts. Mr. Coonrod then indicated that he recently saw on television that city residents are coming back to tennis as opposed to basketball for a lot of inner city recreational play. Mr. Coonrod then stated that this is a class facility and it really is a shame not to preserve it. Mr. Jenkins explained to Mr. Coonrod that this issue started about two years ago and that the Park Board does not want to close any tennis courts just as they don't want to close any skating rinks. However, the city is working with a fixed budget and therefore we need to prioritize things and make hard decisions. Mr. Jenkins indicated that the issue was brought before the City Council and they wanted the Park Board to look at it a little further. Therefore, a subcommittee of the Park Board was formed to prioritize the work and maintenance that needs to be done. This subcommittee suggested that Braemar tennis courts be closed. He indicated this recommendation was then brought before the City Council and they voted 5 to 0 to close the Braemar tennis courts. Mr. Jenkins then stated that we are now back looking at the issue again and his feeling is that it's a hard decision to make, but feels they should go along with the original decision that was made. Mr. Coonrod pointed out that they went to the City Council and asked for their consideration. The City Council said that he would need to have a recommendation from the Park Board. Mr. Coonrod noted that they made a plea to the City Council to reverse their decision with the caveat that they would participate in the budgetary issue that they cited. He then indicated that he respects this, but if you look at tearing out the asset and the asset value, it's foolish not to preserve this if the residents of the community are willing to participate at their own expense. Mr. Coonrod pointed out that the people we are talking to are significant tax payers. Mr. Coonrod feels it's an extraordinary expression of interest in preserving this asset and if it isn't used seven years from now then revisit the issue. Mr. Coonrod stated that the other consideration is the city has spent significant amounts of money to build a golf course and trails and the tennis players should be given some priority. His concern is that tennis is getting short -shifted. Theodore Hansen asked if the Braemar tennis that may be closed. Mr. Jenkins indicated then asked why the Braemar tennis courts. 2 courts are the only courts that is correct. Mr. Hansen Mr. Jenkins replied because they are in the worst shape and would take the most money to get back into shape. He then pointed out that there are still 42 tennis courts left in the city. Mr. Hansen then asked if Edina could have any lighted tennis courts. He stated that Edina is one of the nicest communities and there are no lighted tennis courts. Mr. Keprios indicated that lighted tennis courts have not been a priority. Mr. Montgomery stated that having lights is a very valid point and possibly we could put up lights for $7,000 to $8,000. Mr. Keprios indicated that's a great idea if the resources are available. Mr. Coonrod pointed out that the reason they are in the worst shape is because they haven't had any maintenance for seven years. Any court could be in the worst shape if they haven't had any maintenance for seven years. He noted that the staff needs to look at the maintenance consideration so the courts don't get to where they cost $13,000 to $14,000 to maintain. Mr. Jenkins indicated that it gets back to the fixed amount of dollars that we have to work with. Mr. Coonrod then stated that before you get into a $14,000 item maybe you should come to the citizens so we don't find ourselves in this kind of a situation. He pointed out that people in the community are willing to help if you will accept it. Mr. Dovolis stated that he would be willing to revisit the issue because, any time you have interested citizens who are willing to donate funding to recover an asset, the Park Board should take a hard look at it and reevaluate the priorities. He indicated that we need to look at all of our parks, they have been ignored for too long. Mr. Jenkins stated that he would like to see a park bond referendum to bring all of Edina's parks up to speed, but that is a whole separate issue. Mr. Coonrod stated that it's important to recognize that the residents are sincere and that he could possibly organize a greater effort than the one in his letter. Mr. Jenkins noted that there is no question about the sincerity and that the amount that they are talking about really isn't going to make or break anything. Mr. Montgomery stated that the Park Board should also discuss alternative uses of the existing site. He stated that one of the most popular sports going on right now for the youth is volleyball. He pointed out that there is currently only one outdoor volleyball court site. He feels that this would be an ideal location and that the sport really attracts the 25 to 35 year olds. Mr. Montgomery explained that the use of the tennis courts have been hurt by the Northwest and Normandale clubs. He noted that these clubs are giving away time during the summer. He indicated that the more serious tennis players have elected to go indoors. Mr. Montgomery also stated that the young kids who are trying to develop their tennis abilities don't need to worry about whether there is a crack in the court or if there are a few weeds growing. Mr. Coonrod indicated that he is not interested in the 25 to 35 year 3 olds. He stated that they are interested in the young kids who do not have the money to pay for court time at the clubs. Mr. Fischer noted that we have taken a small step toward enlisting the citizens in keeping up the parks with the adopt -a -park program. He pointed out that the citizens are contributing labor and time. He then stated that, when you have citizens who are willing to put up money to save an asset, that does change the equation. Mr. Dow stated that, if the courts would have been maintained, we wouldn't be here discussing this issue. Mr. Herring asked if action needed to be taken now. Mr. Keprios indicated that action can be delayed a month or two because work cannot be done until spring. He stated that he has been directed not to take the courts out because there has been community interest in saving the Braemar tennis courts and a financial donation proposal in the making. Gary Zachman indicated that he has taught for the Northwest Clubs for years and has owned his own business and has made a living in the sport for 20 years. He stated that if cosmetics is what the Park Board's report is based on, then yes, the Braemar courts are probably in the worst condition. However, structurally and dollar wise they are not the worst tennis courts in Edina. Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Zachman which courts he thinks are the worst and he replied that he would have to study it. Ms. Rydell asked Mr. Zachman if he looked at any of the other courts and he replied that he did look at some. He then indicated that the Highland tennis courts are in worse shape than Braemar. Mr. Montgomery agreed that one court is in worse shape but that the other court is still in good shape and therefore still stands behind his decision. Mr. Zachman indicated that he is not arguing that, he is arguing that Mr. Montgomery says the Braemar courts are in the worst shape and his position is that they are not. Mr. Zachman stated that there are some major problems that are very expensive at Highlands that the Park Board might not be aware of. Ms. Rydell stated that, when she and Mr. Montgomery did the report, they were looking not as authorities on the subject. Mr. Zachman replied that if Mr. Montgomery and Ms. Rydell are putting out a recommendation on the position that the Braemar tennis courts are the worst tennis courts in Edina then they are holding themselves as authorities. Mr. Montgomery asked Mr. Zachman why he would say that the Highland tennis courts are in worse shape than Braemar. Mr. Zachman replied that structurally the sub -base on Highlands is shot and the concrete apron under the fencing is shot. The Braemar courts have a concrete apron under the fencing that does not have one crack in it. He pointed out that you can't say that about several of the other facilities. He noted that the Lake Cornelia courts have major problems but cosmetically aren't as bad as the Braemar courts. Mr. Zachman then pointed out that it's the young kids that we are worried about. He then stated that Mr. Montgomery indicated that the high school has seven beautiful courts. He noted that as an EGAA volunteer coach who plays there, they are not beautiful courts. Mr. Montgomery then stated that the Lewis Park courts and the Normandale courts are probably the best courts. Mr. Zachman 4 then replied are we now talking about the best courts in Edina. At this point Mr. Herring indicated to Chairman, Bill Jenkins, that he is not going to sit here and let Mr. Montgomery and Ms. Rydell, who volunteer their time, be subject to this kind of abuse. He stated that, if the gentleman would like to ask questions, that would be fine. He then indicated to Mr. Jenkins that Mr. Jenkins is the chairman and he defers to him but he doesn't understand the point of this. He feels the questions should be asked and then answered and the gentleman can disagree, but it should be done in an orderly fashion. Mr. Zachman indicated that he was just trying to clarify whether the recommendation held and he said yes that those were the worst courts in Edina and that's why they were the ones recommended to be torn out. Mr. Montgomery noted that he thinks the recommendation is the cost to put them in a quality shape was not dollars well spent. Mr. Zachman then asked why were the Lewis Park tennis courts built so close to the Braemar courts? They are not being maintained and there is an expense right now to fix those. Mr. Montgomery MOVED THAT THE PARK BOARD CONTINUE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE REMOVE THE TENNIS COURTS AT BRAEMAR AS WE HAD RECOMMENDED AT THE JUNE PARK BOARD MEETING. Andy Herring SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED 8 TO 1. John Dovolis was opposed. Mr. Coonrod indicated to the Park Board that he is very disappointed in their action and that the residents will continue their efforts. III. 1995 FEES AND CHARGES Mr. Keprios stated that Edinborough and Centennial Lakes are basically recommending no increases in their fees and charges. Mr. Keprios then explained that one of the fees that is being recommended may be of a controversial nature. He explained that the City Council has asked staff to come up with more creative ways to raise revenues. Therefore, a $1.00 per participant administrative fee is being recommended for youth athletic associations. This amount basically will help cover a small percentage of the cost of advertising, photocopying, mailing, scheduling, professional advisory staff time, typing and handling of registrations. He noted that it doesn't even come close to covering the out-of-pocket expense that the city incurs. In fact, it only covers a very small percentage but it's a step in the direction that he has been asked to take. He noted that this fee would generate approximately $7,800 to $8,000 on an annual basis. Mr. Crowther asked Mr. Keprios if he could define for him advisory assistance. Mr. Keprios explained that a professional advisor is assigned to each youth athletic association. The professional advisor has been providing two basic services, scheduling and professional advice. Mr. Keprios noted that the assigned staff tries to attend as many meetings as possible. However, there are now 13 associations and not enough staff to go around. Mr. Crowther stated that scheduling is different from advisory assistance and he is curious how we define 5 advisory assistance. Mr. Crowther indicated that he is concerned about what he has seen in a number of the associations this year where he feels there has been a lack of input or direction from the professionals. This in turn makes the associations far less effective and he feels that the public views it in that fashion as well. Mr. Crowther then stated that he knows we do not run the boards and that each association has a board. However, the general public doesn't always realize this and therefore view it as a park and recreation problem. Mr. Keprios then explained that the staff does not have a vetoing vote, however, the City does have control of the facilities that are owned by the City. There are some groups that rely heavily on the staff's advice and others who don't. Mr. Crowther then indicated that this is not a fee and charge issue and asked to discuss it at the end of the meeting under Other. Mr. Herring indicated that it would be helpful to know the actual administrative costs of services provided to these athletic associations to help quantify those costs. Mr. Herring stated that it would be nice as a selling tool to know what you those costs are and what this would raise as far as revenues to support this fee. Mr. Keprios indicated that it would be difficult to quantify the exact cost per association, however, the staff would do their best to estimate an expense per association. Mr. Keprios stated that it costs from one association to another depending on how much work they rely on us to do. He pointed out that some do their own mailings, scheduling, registrations and typing, where other associations use some or all of those services at no fee. Each association's request for services also varies slightly from year to year. Mr. Herring asked if the associations are charged for photocopying. Mr. Keprios indicated that they are not unless it is for fund raising purposes, such as an invitational fund raiser tournament. Mr. Montgomery noted that he would not be in favor of adding another $1/participant fee for adult softball because the entire program is organized and implemented by staff and their fees are already high enough. Mr. Montgomery stated that he is against adding a buck to the fees for any of these programs. Mr. Montgomery stated that he'd rather see the dollar be raised for facility usage rather than administrative costs. Mr. Crowther stated that if you tell people you are going to charge them $1.00 and part of what you are incorporating is the advisory assistance you may have some associations saying that they are not getting their moneys worth. Mr. Keprios explained that the direction is that if you don't like the philosophical approach to it that's fine. He indicated he really doesn't have a problem with it, he is just trying to creatively raise additional revenue. Mr. Herring asked if the associations would pass the expense on to the participant and it was noted that they would. Mr. Montgomery asked which association is the $6.00 fee being added to. It was noted that the Hockey Association currently has not paid the $6.00 usage fee. Mr. Keprios explained that the Hockey Association has 9 never paid a maintenance fee for the use of outdoor rinks and this year 20 mite teams are being scheduled to play outdoor games and the other teams are scheduled to have practices outside. Therefore, it seems only logical to charge for outdoor ice since it is a city owned and maintained facility. Mr. Montgomery noted that thinks all of the other fees are reasonable but he still stumbles on the $1.00 administrative fee. Mr. Keprios indicated that in 1987 when the field usage fee first started it was $5.00 and two years ago it was raised to $6.00. Mr. Jenkins noted that we would pick up approximately $8,000 by adding the $1.00 administrative fee and it was noted that is correct. Mr. Montgomery asked about adult softball and Mr. Keprios indicated that each team pays $100.00 toward a fee which is essentially a user fee. It is based on an average roster size of approximately 16 players times the $6/participant field usage fee, which is the same as the youth are currently charged. He noted that they have also been charging the outdoor bandy program a maintenance fee which also balances out to $6.00 per player. Mr. Keprios then indicated that the administration fee is a new idea. Mr. Herring asked if there is $2,100 worth of staff support for adult softball. Mr. Keprios noted that he would say yes, it's an enormous program that is completely run by the staff. Mr. Montgomery indicated that it's a fairly healthy fee to play adult softball. Mr. Keprios stated that $100.00 goes to the city and the rest is put back into the program and not simply into the City's general fund. Mr. Herring asked about raising the user fee to $7.00. Mr. Keprios stated that it's been two years since their last raise and he thought it would be wise to wait at least another year. Mr. Crowther indicated that he doesn't think it's really going to matter what you call it; people are going to look at it as raising the fee $1.00. Mr. Dovolis indicated that he doesn't think the $1.00 fee is appropriate. He feels that people will look at it as just another way of trying to gauge something out of them. Mr. Dovolis indicated that he remembers how people felt when the usage fee was started a few years ago. People didn't feel they were getting their moneys worth. It was noted that it just gets back to the big picture that we have a limited amount of money to work with. Mr. Crowther indicated that these are again revenues that the Park Department gets no benefit from, it goes right to City. Mr. Keprios indicated that these revenues do not increase the Park Department's expense budget; it basically helps offset existing expenses. Mr. Crowther noted that it's hard to explain to people that we need to offset these administrative costs yet the money really doesn't flow to the department to offset those costs it just goes into the overall city budget. Mr. Keprios then stated that one approach might be to hold off this year and suggest we talk to the associations and feed it to them slowly. It is difficult to charge for services that have always been provided at no additional fee since they existed. Mr. Dovolis asked Mr. Keprios about the associations who donate money back to the Park Department. Mr. Keprios stated that most often the 7 associations who donate money are the wealthiest ones and those who are making money from city facilities, such as Hockey Moms who use the Braemar Arena concession stand. Mr. Crowther suggested looking at charging for the services and telling the associations that the city can no longer afford to give free copies. Mr. Keprios indicated that we have to be careful how we treat the volunteers. They are a very big and important part of the Park and Recreation Department and we don't want to give them the wrong message. Mr. Jenkins then stated he doesn't think it's very good to charge volunteers who are trying to assist staff. Mr. Crowther point6d out that the problem is that some associations would be getting charged for services that they are not using. He stated the concern that this new fee may encourage associations to start using services that they currently are not using and that would create a tremendous influx of additional work on the staff. Mr. Crowther explained that you have to look at all prospects. Mr. Keprios stated that if certain associations are not using the services that chances are they would not be invoiced the $1.00. Mr. Keprios then indicated that the staff needs to do a better job to determine exactly who is getting what services, how much the costs are and revisit the issue at another time. And therefore, staff will provide an analysis of current services used by each association and an estimated cost associated with those services and give a report at the December Park Board meeting. Mr. Herring indicated to Mr. Keprios that his personal view is you're on the right track looking at different sources of revenue and he feels he should continue to do that. Mr. Montgomery MOVED TO ACCEPT THE FEES AND CHARGES EXCEPT FOR THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OF $1.00. Mr. Herring then questioned why was the Normandale course charged $9.00 and $8.00 while the Braemar Executive Course charged only $7.50 and $6.50. Mr. Valliere indicated that there are two issues involved, one is cost and the other is debt service. He also stated that the Normandale Golf Course is a lot longer than the Braemar Executive Course. Mr. Valliere explained that right now they are in the process of planting trees to protect some of the areas that have been experiencing a few stray golf balls that have subsequently caused damage. He also noted that there is a large debt service at Normandale that they would like to have the facility address. Mr. Valliere then stated that the course has been well received and there have been no complaints about the green fees. Mr. Valliere indicated that Braemar was raised .50 and Normandale was raised $1.00. Mr. Valliere indicated that the annual debt service at Normandale golf course is the $117,000. The 1994 gross revenues are slightly over $200,000, and the operating expenses were around $100,060. He explained that if you add expenses and debt service you have a net loss and he is trying to recover that as quickly as he can as well as address the problem of stray golf balls. Ms. Rydell asked if the Braemar Executive Golf Course could be raised $1.00 instead of .50. Mr. Valliere indicated he would be open to that. Mr. Dovolis asked Mr. Valliere if he has checked green fees with the other areas golf courses. Mr. Valliere stated that Braemar is in the middle. Mr. Valliere indicated that he feels there are a couple of reasons we should go up. One is we are faced with debt service at this given moment in time. He also believes that the fees should be cost driven and not just profit motivated. Mr. Valliere then indicated if he had opened the new nine hole course on time the revenues would have met budgeted expectations. Unfortunately, the course opened later than scheduled. Mr. Valliere indicated that the budget for 1995 is $2,900,000 if all goes well. He noted that the 1994 golf season had extremely good weather. Mr. Dovolis asked compared to other courses where are we. Mr. Valliere stated we're in a good situation, we are right there in the middle or slightly above. Mr. Dovolis asked if there have been any thoughts to increasing the fees in the prime times. Mr. Valliere stated that this has been discussed and the thoughts are the golf course is busy every day of the week and why should we particularly pick on the weekend players. Mr. Valliere indicated that accounting wise it also makes it a lot easier. Ms. Rydell asked why is there only a $50.00 difference between residents and non-residents for the Braemar Room. She asked if we would lose a lot of people if that fee were raised. Mr. Valliere indicated that the $650.00 price is where we should be, it is what the market will bear. Mr. Valliere indicated that he would not advocate raising the $650.00 because we would lose people. Mr. Herring asked about the locker fees. Mr. Valliere indicated that's a fee based on supply and demand. In 1994, we actually saw some decrease in the sale of the lockers so I would like to correct that problem. Jean Rydell MOVED TO AMEND THE PREVIOUS MOTION TO ALSO RAISE THE FEE AT BRAEMAR EXECUTIVE GOLF COURSE FROM $7.50 TO $8.00 FOR ADULT NON -PATRONS AND FROM $6.50 TO $7.00 FOR ADULT PATRONS. Andrew Herring SECONDED THE MOTION. AMENDMENT CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Dave Crowther SECONDED THE ORIGINAL MOTION WITH THE AMENDMENT TO READ MOVE TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO ACCEPT THE FEES AND CHARGES WITH THE EXCEPTION TO NOT CHARGE A $1.00 ADMINISTRATIVE FEE TO THE YOUTH ATHLETIC ASSOCIATIONS AND TO RAISE THE BRAEMAR EXECUTIVE GOLF COURSE FEE FROM $7.50 TO $8.00 FOR ADULT NON -PATRONS AND FROM $6.50 TO $7.00 FOR ADULT PATRONS. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. IV. OTHER A. Athletic Associations -Mr. Crowther indicated that this is a topic that should probably be brought up at a different Park Board meeting but noted that he would like to bring up a couple of points. He stated that he is confused and concerned about what support our staff 9 gives to the associations and how these associations function in the community. He asked if the Park Board cares if they are effective or not and if they do a good job or not. He gave a few examples of what has been happening in the EGAA program and in the football program. Mr. Crowther explained how the EGAA girls basketball and the traveling girls basketball do not work together and the girls were fighting against each other as to who gets what players. He indicated it was a mess. Also, the scheduling was not very good. There were about five or six different changes. House basketball was scheduled against flag football and then the playoffs had to be rescheduled. Mr. Crowther stated there was total confusion and that was the staff who did that and not EGAA. Mr. Crowther brought up the point that girls flag football cost $35.00 for three games and girls house basketball cost $35.00 for 15 games. He stated that things like that show how out of control things are. Mr. Crowther asked should staff be concerned about this or should they just let each board run their own program and we will just give them the facility. Mr. Crowther feels that the staff needs to better define what their role is with the associations. Mr. Crowther also indicated that football this year for the boys was terrible. They had all sorts of problems and part of it was continuity. He again asked should staff be concerned about continuity and help the associations or do they just let them flounder. Mr. Crowther indicated that other associations have similar problems but these are two who have had problems within the last three months. He noted that there is a concern among people and should we be concerned or should we divorce ourselves from these things. He noted that we are putting ourselves out as offering these associations professional help and services but he feels they are not getting that. Ms. Bennett indicated that she had concerns about some of the football coaches this year and wanted to know how that process works. She indicated that she knows they are volunteers but there were huge differences in the teams in regards to coaching. She indicated that maybe there should be some type of requirement or at least be knowledgeable about the game. Mr. Jenkins noted that what happens is the Football Association gets a coordinator for a particular grade level and then the coordinator tries to find the best qualified person they can to coach. He noted that you do get a lot of different level guys and each year is a little bit different. Mr. Crowther stated that his feeling is that, if we have an association that's struggling, our professional staff should really be digging in and helping that association. He indicated that, if we are not going to give them help, then maybe we should just let them go and do their own thing and we can save expenses. However, we have these associations and if there are too many associations to manage them, we need to find a way to manage them so that staff can work fairly with all of these associations. He indicated that certainly if some of the associations have problems, and there are some obvious situations that you know are crying out for help, lets give them the help. He indicated that he doesn't see that happening. Mr. Crowther then stated that he thinks the public views this as a Park and Recreation problem and not an EGAA 10 problem or an Edina Football problem. Mr. Keprios replied that in regards to the scheduling confusion with EGAA this year, yes it was a staff error. He explained that with the transition that the staff has been going through there have been some duties shifted around. He pointed out that this year they had Ann Kattreh from Edinborough work with EGAA and have found out that for a variety of reasons it hasn't worked. He stated that it is not a criticism of Ms. Kattreh, it's that by virtue of location of offices and being short one full-time Recreation Supervisor position for 6 months, there was not enough communication, guidance and supervisory assistance for Ann to learn all the variables and details of the job. Mr. Keprios noted that he partially blames himself for not having or taking more time to train her in. Also, staff has learned that it is important to keep the master schedule for reserved gym space at City Hall and that all the staff who use this master schedule should be located at City Hall. Mr. Keprios then indicated that in answer to Mr. Crowther's question should staff be the answers to all of athletic associations problems. No, staff cannot be to all of their meetings and we are looking at other alternatives on how to best serve them when they do need help. He pointed out that these volunteer youth athletic associations are always going to have problems. Mr. Crowther indicated that in a lot of cases you can see when some things are going wrong. He noted that he is not saying you have to be all these things to all these people, that's not the point. He's saying that we have to be involved when there's a need to be involved. He explained that it wasn't two weeks into the football season when people were telling him things were going array. Mr. Keprios asked Chairman Jenkins, who also currently serves as a football board member, if he is familiar with the problems that Mr. Crowther is referring to in regards to football. Mr. Jenkins noted that basically the problem was the board decided to let the boys in grades 6th, 7th and 8th play in the Lake Minnetonka conference. Therefore, they took care of all of the scheduling. He indicated that the scheduling with all four different communities, which was handled by volunteers, got mixed up. He stated that next year it could be done a lot better. Mr. Crowther explained how this year there weren't any lights on at Lewis Park for the first game. Mr. Keprios indicated that he ended up turning the lights on that night himself because luckily he happened to be driving by the park that evening. He stated that when he talked to Mr. MacHolda the next day he found out that it was not a staff mistake, it was a board mistake. Mr. Keprios then went on to say that he thinks the residents' perception is that staff doesn't care and we are the creation of all of the problems, however, that's not accurate. He indicated that he will take responsibility for the EGAA scheduling errors in EGAA basketball and will take the necessary steps to correct future problems. Mr. MacHolda indicated that with the Lewis Park incident he told the Football Board that they need to accept the responsibility to turn on 11 the field lights for their scheduled games. Therefore, Joe Engels, a football board member, received five keys for Lewis Park. Mr. Crowther replied to Mr. MacHolda that he is missing the point, he's not blaming anyone for the wrong schedule or the fact that lights didn't get turned on. He's saying some of the associations are screwed up and we don't seem to care about it. Mr. MacHolda then stated that in reality, staff has very little control over these youth athletic associations. Mr. Keprios stated that Mr. Crowther brings out some really good points and would ask that we put this as an agenda item at the next meeting. Mr. Keprios noted that the staff will prepare a report for this subject because he thinks it's definitely worthy of further discussion. Mr. Keprios then stated that this may be a good time to maybe reconsider what role the staff should play in serving the youth athletic associations. Ms. Bennett asked if the Park Board ever receives minutes from the Swim Club. Mr. Keprios indicated that whatever minutes are given to the Park and Recreation Department we copy and give to the Park Board. Mr. Dovolis indicated that he'was involved in football for 14 years and he received phone calls from people who said it was the worst year ever. Mr. MacHolda indicated that part of the reason may be that they had a new president who wasn't around much because he received a job promotion. Also, you have board members who are coaches, commissioners, parents and professionals and they can't get it all done. He also went on to say that football is the smallest program and to go outside of the community might have added to it. He pointed out that football has 400 kids while soccer has 2,000 kids and not a glitch. Mr. Jenkins stated that the football board problem is a football board problem not a park and recreation staff problem. Mr. Dovolis indicated that he realizes that but if the program seems to be having difficulty is that a Park Board problem or is it a Park and Recreation problem. This topic will be on the next Park Board agenda. B. Baseball - Mr. Herring indicated that he has been contacted by a participant in the baseball program who is concerned about competition and coach favoritism. He indicated that at the next meeting he will pass along to the Park Board members the memo that he received. C. Mac Thayer - Mr. Keprios indicated that the Park Board, City Council and Staff sent a beautiful bouquet of flowers when Mac Thayer passed away. It was noted that Mac made significant contributions to the Edina Park Board and he will be dearly missed. D. Bob Kojetin Park - Mr. Keprios sent around the picture album of Bob's retirement party. He indicated that the park identification sign will be put in next week. However, the dedication will be held in the spring. E. Senior Advisory Task Force - Mr. Keprios indicated that the Senior Advisory Task Force have indicated that they need a representative from the Park Board, preferably someone of a baby.boomer age, to serve on their committee. This group is looking at the long range plans of the Senior Center and meeting the needs of Edina's senior population in the 12 future. The Senior Center lease at the Community Center runs out in the year 2000. V. ADJOURNMENT Dave Crowther MOVED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING AT 9:20 P.M. John Dovolis SECONDED THE MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED. 13