HomeMy WebLinkAbout1989-01-10 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
7:30 p.m.
nuary 10, 1989
Ana City Hall
MEMBERS PRESENT: Bob Christianson, Bill Lord, Itti Furlong, Andrew Montgomery, Bill
Jenkins, Jim Fee, Jean Rydell, Mac Thayer
MEMBERS ABSENT: Don Wineberg, Scott Johnson
STAFF PRESENT: Bob Kojetin, John Keprios, Joyce Repya, Stacey Kness
OTHERS PRESENT: John Harris, Bruce Soderling (Golf Terrace residents), Marilyn
Wooldridge (Braemar Golf Association), Jack Rice (Council)
Bob Christianson called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.
I. APPROVAL OF NOVEMBER 15, 1988, MEETING MINUTES
Jean Rydell MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE NOVEMBER 15, 1988, MEETING. Bill
Lord seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED.
II. APPROVAL OF DECEMBER 13, 1988, MEETING MINUTES
Jim Fee MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE DECEMBER 13, 1988, MEETING. Jean Rydell
seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED.
II. AGENDA ADDITION - REQUEST TO FLOOD LAKE HARVEY
Mr. Kojetin indicated a letter written to Mr. Christianson by Mr. Bruce Soderling
requesting the City to flood Lake Harvey. Mr. Soderling asked the Park Board to
consider supporting his request for help in maintaining the ice facility on Lake
Harvey. It is currently being used by many kids ranging in age from 6 to 18 years.
The neighbors are shoveling and maintaining the ice. Mr. Soderling proposes that the
City use the fire hydrant and lightly flood the area as an experiment. Mr. Soderling
estimates it could be low cost --probably taking only one to two hours per week on the
City's part.
Mr. Christianson confirmed Mr. Soderling is asking the City to flood and not to sweep
or remove snow.
Mr. John Harris, Golf Terrace neighbor, said they are not even asking for a flooding,
but a fogging to make a better surface.
Mr. Fee asked if this area was maintained by the City at one time. Mr. Kojetin
answered yes; the High School hockey team used to practice down there.
Mr. Harris said they are not asking for equipment to go out onto the ice, but they
would like to try a cooperative effort for the rest of this year to see how much use
it gets. A number of children can walk to the Lake Harvey area who would otherwise
have to go to Arden Park.
Mr. Soderling added people walk across the foot bridge from the west side of Highway
100 to use Lake Harvey since they do not have a rink in their neighborhood.
Mr. Fee asked if the City is currently flooding Wooddale Park. Mr. Kojetin said yes,
but there has not been a lot of use.
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Mr. Christianson pointed out that Wooddale Park is a higher level of maintenance than
Mr. Soderling and Mr. Harris are asking for.
Mrs. Furlong mentioned the time a request like this was made in her neighborhood, the
City said they would have to have insurance.
Mr. Kojetin explained the reason for insurance in Mrs. Furlong's situation is because
it was private property. The Lake Harvey property is owned by the State; however, if
the City maintains it, we become liable. Mr. Kojetin then gave a brief history of
other similar requests. We haven't been successful in flooding lakes. It takes a
long time to flood, sometimes the water does not adhere to the ice, the water is apt
to go into the cracks damaging the surface, and the soil conditions under our ponds
is generally poor. For these reasons, we have tried to stay away from flooding and
maintaining ponds, but we are getting requests. Some other areas have been turned
down, i.e. the south side of Lake Cornelia, the pond near Lake Cornelia, Nancy Lake,
a pond north of Nancy Lake, and York Park. Residents have used the other end of Lake
Harvey as a hockey rink, but Mr. Kojetin is not sure if the neighbors flooded it or
not. We have had a pretty good winter for lake ice. With the temperatures below
zero, the ice is getting thicker; to maintain it with flooding could damage the
surface. Fogging would be effective since a skating area on Lake Cornelia was
successfully fogged for the Centennial celebration.
Mr. Keprios commented it is important to be sure all the snow is swept before you
flood ideally with a tractor.
Mr. Christianson asked what a periodic flooding or fogging would cost.
Mr. Kojetin responded currently our maintenance men work from 5 am to 2 pm and could
probably flood sometime during the morning. It could possibly take two to three
hours per rink to maintain each. What takes time is fogging since you have to
fog, wait, and fog it again. Some rinks receive eight to nine fogs per day currently
on the rinks. A person can put some water down, but it will not be quality. It
takes some time to do it.
Mr. Jenkins asked if the Park Department has the time and the labor.
Mr. Kojetin said it puts a burden on the maintenance men; something else gets less
attention. It may lower the quality of some of our maintained rinks.
Mr. Christianson confirmed there would not be any additional cost such as overtime,
but there may be a cost in the sense that other things may not be done. Mr. Kojetin
said that is right.
Mrs. Furlong asked Mr. Soderling and Mr. Harris their reaction to this conversation.
Mr. Harris said if you decide not to flood, than we still will flood by running hoses
across the street to fulfill a commitment to the kids. He stated the ice will be
ready to flood when you are down there if you decide to do so.
Mr. Kojetin said the soft water from your house makes better quality of ice. Mr.
Soderling would be surprised if it takes three hours to flood the ice area. Mr.
Kojetin said the key is the soft water; it takes longer with hard water which comes
out of the hydrant.
Mr. Harris said the skating rink at Cornelia school is the best ice he has seen in
years.
Mr. Soderling said fogging once a week would probably be adequate such as Thursday
morning which would carry over the weekend.
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IV.
PORTION TAKEN FROM JANUARY 10, 1989 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Lord asked if it would be helpful for Mr. Soderling and Mr. Harris to have access
to our equipment. Mr. Kojetin said he is very reluctant to have anyone other than an
employee open up the fire hydrant.
Mr. Harris said there isn't much more of the skating season. A number of kids have
moved in the neighborhood, and it does get quite a lot of use. He is looking at it
as an experiment.
Mr. Christianson asked if the staff has any position or recommendation on this.
Mr. Kojetin said we are coming into an era of using rinks now more than ever. We are
going to get these requests for a few years. We may consider to maintain these pond
areas.
Mr. Fee asked how much activity is at Wooddale Park's ice rink. Mr. Kojetin said
very little. Mr. Fee asked if that is due to lack of a warming house. Mr. Kojetin
said it may have a little to do with it, but you aren't going to have activity unless
there is nice weather. A weekend of 35 degrees will bring everybody out skating.
Mr. Fee asked if the Wooddale area would be flooded in the future. Mr. Kojetin said
at this time he would recommend not flooding Wooddale Park again since it is not
getting the use.
Mr. Jenkins asked if other rinks are also not getting use. Mr. Kojetin said Heights
Park, York Park, and McGuire Park are flooded areas that are not getting a lot of
use but the neighbors request it every year. Mr. Christianson pointed out these
rinks are maintained. Mr. Kojetin said that is correct.
Jean Rydell MOVED WE FOG THE LAKE HARVEY POND ONCE A WEEK ON A MUTUALLY AGREEABLE DAY
THROUGH THE END OF THE SKATING SEASON ON AN EXPERIMENTAL BASIS. Itti Furlong
seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED.
OPEN SPACE PURCHASE REQUEST - LAND EAST OF 4700 TOWNES ROAD
Mr. Christianson welcomed Mr. Jack Rice, new Council member, to the Park Board
meeting.
Mr. Kojetin mentioned this open space request came to the attention of the Planning
Department and the Council in December. Mr. Kojetin reviewed the background of the
1975 Open Space Report and reviewed some of the comments that were made on the
northeast section of the City in relationship to open space. One of the basic
recommendations within the Open Space Report indicated that if any property became
available within the old Country Club area, this property be considered for possible
open space or recreational parkland. Since the report was made, we have acquired the
44th Street Property and the Wooddale Park site in the old Country Club area. The
report specifically did not indicate other open space areas in the White Oaks/Townes
Road area. This was on the report only that a meadow owned by the neighbors was
available as open space in the White Oaks area. Mr. Kojetin reviewed the enclosed
packet of information that was distributed to the Park Board from Mr. Conner Schmid
representing the White Oaks neighborhood association. The piece of land in question
is a buildable lot within a water storage easement area. The City has an easement of
approximately 80 percent of the water storage area which is adequate for water
storage in the area and is now being reviewed by the Engineering Department to see if
it is a large enough water storage area. The lot in question is a private and
buildable lot with some modifications which would not, in my understanding, destroy
the water storage area. The main issues are: Do we have enough open space within
the White Oaks area at the present time; does the present lot number 1 give us
adequate open space if lot number 9 was built on; would the Park Board acquire lot
number 9 to keep the whole pond for future open space area.
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PORTION TAKEN FROM JANUARY 10, 1989 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Mrs. Rydell asked if the property has to be filled in by a builder, what does that do
to the drainage. Mr. Kojetin said there still will be adequate drainage.
Mrs. Furlong has talked to a lot of people about it. She feels strongly it should be
maintained as open space. The uniqueness of the area being wooded and so close to
50th and France makes it very valuable as a homeowner.
Mr. Fee asked for the feeling of the Planning Commission.
Mrs. Joyce Repya, City Associate Planner, said they feel in order to build on this
lot, the builder would have to maintain a certain amount of easement. There will be
tight constraints they have to abide by. It is not an easily buildable lot.
Mrs. Furlong said tighter constraints make a greater chance that something
undesirable will happen.
Mr. Montgomery asked how different is this area to the open space by Jerry's that is
now Vernon Oaks Condominiums.
Mr. Kojetin indicated that there is no difference. That property was a buildable
lot, was not owned by the City, and there was adequate drainage in the area.
Mr. Christianson said the only way that the lot can be kept as open space is if the
City acquires it, the owner donates it to the City, or such restrictions are placed
on the lot that it would not be built for many years. The issue becomes how much is
the City able to pay, and how much does the City want to pay.
Mr. Fee asked if a price has been established. Mrs. Repya said Mr. Schmid's letter
suggested $500 or more could be donated by the neighbors. and a possible price could
be as much as $75,000 but is not known for sure.
Mr. Kojetin asked if we need more open space in that area. In our report of the year
2000, the questions of open space will be heavily addressed. Another consideration
could be are there pieces of property we could sell.
Mr. Christianson said the theory is once it is gone it is gone. He continued, there
is a precedent with the Krahl Hill deal --the neighborhood came up with about 10
percent of the cost. If we use the Krahl Hill purchase as a guideline and the White
Oaks neighborhood came up with about $7,500, then there would be some precedent if
this is desirable as open space. He would be reluctant to vary the approach to the
arrangement.
The current market value of the property is not known at this time.
Mr. Jenkins asked if the owner continues to own this property, is there a possibility
that he would not want to build in the future. Mr. Kojetin indicated that the
concern of the neighbors now is that a builder wants to purchase the property and
build on the lot. Now the owner is reluctant to sell, and there is litigation going
on between the builder and the owner at this time.
Mr. Christianson said the issues seem to be whether or not this is open space that
ought to be acquired and should the City acquire it. The maps indicate there is a
lot of open space now covered by a permanent drainage easement preventing any future
development. This was not included in the 1975 open space study.
Mr. Rice stated it wasn't included in the study because it was never considered as
something other than marshland therefore unbuildable.
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V.
PORTION TAKEN FROM JANUARY 10, 1989 PARK BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Fee asked if we are in a position to make a recommendation since there is
litigation between the seller and the buyer. Mr. Kojetin said the Council wanted the
Park Board to take a look at the situation.
Bill Jenkins MOVED TO TABLE THE DISCUSSION UNTIL AFTER THE CURRENT LITIGATION IS
COMPLETED. Jim Fee seconded the motion and added if Andron (buyer) is successful in
backing out of the purchase, we should talk to Mr. Monroe (owner) about donating it
or what he wants to do with it. MOTION CARRIED.
STRATEGIC PLANNING
Mr. Kojetin indicated the Council thought it was a good report and asked to have it
presented it at the Park Board to hear its comments.
Mr. Keprios said the City does have a comprehensive plan now but it is not adequate,
and this report would be a part of the comprehensive plan. Other cities such as Eden
Prairie and Eagan are reviewing and updating their comprehensive plans and have hired
consultants to work on the plans. It was suggested at the Council meeting that the
plan be re -named. Mrs. Furlong suggested "A Commitment to Quality -- A Future Plan
for Edina's Parks".
Mr. Christianson sensed the Council is looking for some kind of report by this time
next year. This outline looks like it could take longer. Mr. Keprios said we may
consider hiring a consultant.
Mr. Kojetin said some of the items have been covered in the Task Force Report, so
they would not have to be re -studied again.
Mr. Christianson asked if the Council established any kind of time frame for a
finished report. Mr. Kojetin said probably they are expecting a report within a
year.
Mr. Rice noted the areas dealing with the future could be addressed in a proposed
Futures Commission. He suggested waiting to see what the Mayor has in mind for the
Futures Commission.
Mr. Keprios said this is just a recommendation of the staff's interpretation of the
work program assignment.
Mr. Montgomery asked where is the part relating to the programs that we plan to run
for the people? Mr. Keprios said that is Roman numeral VI.
Mrs. Furlong suggested starting with number III, Goals and Priorities. Item number
VI, Programming Needs, could be seen as a third section under Goals and Priorities.
She sees the Task Force Report as a resource tool for this assignment.
Mr. Jenkins said number II, Involving Community Organizations, has already been done
by the Task Force. Mr. Kojetin said number II includes some items that we did not
address directly with the athletic associations in the survey such as personally
interviewing or talking to the athletic boards. That might be something to expand on
in number I, Review the Task Force Report. Mr. Jenkins stated a survey was sent to
the athletic associations but the return response was very minimal. Mr. Fee
suggested taking it back to the athletic associations and explaining that this is the
final part of the plan to the Council.
Mrs. Furlong said another possibility could be to decide on Park Board members to go
out to these association boards and get their feedback. That would bring people in
early before the plan is established.
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Mr. Fee asked what kind of continuity is there in the athletic associations. Mr.
Keprios said one-third of the board changes once a year. Mr. Kojetin said we have
continuity since we have a staff person attending each athletic association meeting.
Mr. Christianson suggested working on number III first with the three categories and
assigning each category to a committee. At the April meeting be prepared to discuss
each committee's progress formulate a final report on number III.
Mr. Keprios suggested that capital improvements become a fourth subdivision.
Mrs. Repya said Mr. Larsen, City Planner, thought that would be the'last item to work
with.
The board split into three committees as follows: (* Chairperson)
Park and Open Space Acreage: *Itti Furlong, Bill Jenkins, Bob Christianson
Park Development: *Bill Lord, Jim Fee, Don Wineberg, Mac Thayer
Recreation Programming: *Andy Montgomery, Jean Rydell, Scott Johnson
Mrs. Furlong asked if we work on individual goals in our area? Mr. Christianson said
yes. Mr. Fee asked if we should contact the associations. Mr. Christianson
responded we should get our own plan started and come to some preliminary
conclusions.
VI. RENTING/LEASING POLICY
Mr. Keprios reviewed that Dekhockey is still waiting on approval from the Council.
The council is waiting on adoption of a renting/leasing policy.
Mr. Lord suggested we approve the policies as written in "Renting/Leasing Park and
Recreation Department Facilities".
Mr. Jenkins said it is well stated and says it all.
Bill Jenkins MOVED TO APPROVE AND RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL THE RENTING/LEASING
GUIDELINES AS WRITTEN AND RE -SUBMIT APPROVAL OF DEKHOCKEY SINCE IT MEETS THE
REQUIREMENTS. Jean Rydell seconded the motion. Mr. Montgomery asked about the
statement in the guidelines, "Is the individual, group, or organization Edina
based/Edina taxpayers." Mr. Keprios said it is a consideration, not an elimination.
Mr. Lord said it leaves it up to the staff.
Mr. Montgomery indicated we had already approved this in the November board meeting.
Does it have to be re -submitted to the Council. Mr. Kojetin said no, we do not have
to have a motion to re -submit dekhockey.
Jim Fee MOVED TO ELIMINATE THE PART OF THE MOTION THAT SAID RE -SUBMIT APPROVAL OF
DEKHOCKEY. Jean Rydell seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED. AMENDED MOTION
CARRIED.
VII. OTHER
BRAEMAR BASEBALL COMPLEX RE -NAMED
Mr. Kojetin distributed a sheet showing how our parks were named. Mr. Kojetin
indicated a suggestion has come to him to re -name the Braemar Baseball Complex the
"C. Wayne Courtney Ballfields". He also mentioned that the 44th Street Property
could be re -named after Mr. Courtney since it is so close to his home. Mr. Kojetin
added that the Braemar Clubhouse is named the Warren Hyde Clubhouse which is a named
facility within a park which is a similar situation with the Braemar Baseball
Complex.
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Bill Lord MOVED THAT THE BRAEMAR BASEBALL COMPLEX BE RENAMED TO THE C. WAYNE COURTNEY
BALLFIELDS. Bill Jenkins seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED.
Mr. Kojetin also mentioned a suggestion to present Mr. Courtney with a lifetime pass
to the Park and Recreation facilities which was done for Mr. Hyde and Mr. Dalen.
Jim Fee MOVED TO GIVE A LIFETIME PASS TO MR. COURTNEY IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
RE -NAMING OF THE BASEBALL FIELDS. Bill Jenkins seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED.
Mr. Kojetin mentioned the possibility of naming the shelter building at Lake Cornelia
Park after Joan Lonsbury since she donated the fountain in Lake Cornelia in memory of
her husband, Jack. The board decided to wait until a later time to make a
recommendation.
ARNESON ACRES LASTING MEMORIAL UPDATE
Mr. Kojetin reviewed a set of first phase plans that have been drawn for the lasting
memorial at the Arneson home. Mr. Kojetin indicated that when the Wooddale School
was demolished, many artifacts and portions of the building were retained by the
Historical Society in anticipation that they would be introduced into the design of
the addition to the Arneson home. As Mr. Kojetin noted on the plans, the original
windows above the doors were part of the original Wooddale School along with the
doors that were saved from Wooddale School. Other artifacts that have been left will
also be introduced into the design. This plan is a first concept and more work has
to be done on the plans. At this time, the Council has not made any final reaction
to go ahead with the project until the Centennial Commission has submitted its final
report and donation. At the present time, a round figure of the cost could be in the
range of $200,000 to $300,000.
FACILITY CONSTRUCTION UPDATES
Mr. Jenkins asked what is the status of the Art Center addition. Mr. Kojetin said it
is still in committee.
Mr. Fee asked about the status of Braemar Arena. Mr. Kojetin indicated that we are
on schedule and hoping that it will be completed by March 1, but there have been some
problems within the sprinkler system that have come to our attention in regards to
sprinkling the main arena area and the first floor area since it was not originally
planned to be sprinkled. Now we are finding out that all these areas are required by
code to be sprinkled. This subject has been under discussion by staff for the last
couple months. To resolve the problem, we will incur additional charges to the
original construction cost. There have been some minor changes within the overall
construction that are also going to increase the costs; however, the total fee is not
known. If an estimate is based on the sprinkler system of the old Braemar arena, it
could be as high as $40,000 of additional cost. When more information is gathered,
we will bring it back to the Park Board for consideration.
Mr. Montgomery mentioned the spectacular final Centennial event on December 30, the
thank you party for the volunteers. He said it was better than Edinamite.
Mr. Keprios mentioned the recent insurance report saying we have to place fire
extinguishers in each warming house and the hockey nets at Todd Park have to be
removed. Mr. Fee suggested talking with someone else at the insurance company to see
if an alternate plan can be established.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Andrew Montgomery MOVED TO ADJOURN AT 9:20 P.M. Jean Rydell seconded the motion.
MOTION CARRIED.
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