HomeMy WebLinkAbout1989-10-10 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
7:35 p.m.
October 10, 1989
Council Chambers
MEMBERS PRESENT: Bob Christianson, Donald Wineberg, Bill
Jenkins, James Fee, William Lord, Andrew
Montgomery, Jean Rydell, John Thayer, Pat
Vagnoni
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Scott Johnson
STAFF PRESENT:
Bob Kojetin, John Valliere, Susan Weigle,
John Keprios, Janet Canton
OTHERS PRESENT:
Eleanor Compton, Hazel Foss, Tass Von Schmidt -Pauli, Millie
Delebo, Sylvia Eisler, Luverne Swanson, Marge George, Dean
Johnson, Marion Olson, Muriel Johnson, Rosemary Labandz,
June Hoyt, Jeanne Swanson, Martha Hilgendorf, Pat
Newell, Pat Hatlestad, Lois Clynes, Jewel Lalim, Jean
Cutshall, Margorie Loper, Alice Bishop, Georgia Chapman,
Harvey Chapman, Colette Bednarczyk, Delphie Clark.
Margerie Johnson sitting in for Scott Johnson
1. APPROVAL OF
SEPTEMBER MINUTES
JIM FEE MOVED TO APPROVE THE SEPTEMBER 12, 1989, MEETING MINUTES. BILL
JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
2. BRAEMAR GOLF COURSE
Mr. Christianson, Chair for the Park Board, welcomed all of the guests in
the audience to the park board meeting.
Mr. Kojetin introduced the two immediate questions.
a. Non -Residents
b. Golf Leagues
Mr. Kojetin indicated that both non-residents and the golf league issue had
been passed in 1987 and in 1990 both of these policies would become
effective starting next spring.
Mr. Kojetin indicated to the audience that all correspondence that had been
sent to the council, golf course, and park and recreation office was
assembled in a packet. Also, included in the packet were past park board
and council policies as well as pertinent information to the questions at
hand. This packet was then distributed to the park board members.
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Mr. Valliere and Mr. Kojetin assembled a simplified history of the issues.
The history of these issues along with the agenda was on the back table for
members of the audience to pick up. Mr. Kojetin briefly reviewed the items
and then called on John Valliere, Golf Course Manager, to present a more
comprehensive view on the historical backgrond of these issues.
John Valliere indicated to the audience how much he appreciates the
business the leagues have given to Braemar. The problem that exists,
however, is there are too many league golfers. There has to be an
adjustment made for all of the additional people who want to use the
facility. Therefore, we have to constrain the amount of league play. We
also have to permit the residents to have more access. With this
situation, we needed to go from the women's three leagues to two leagues.
From there, we needed to go from the two leagues to the one league. Mr.
Valliere stated he did not advocate the non -residency issue when Braemar
moved to the one league situation. It was the fact that it would not be
fair for approximately 165 men to be on a waiting list while others enjoyed
the two league situation. Then another problem is, should it be done for
both genders to make it fair; the park board brought up the non -residency
with this. The residents then stated that if they have to surrender their
two league privilege, they would want the non-residents to leave first.
Thus we have the non -residency problem. Mr. Valliere stated his goal is to
offer as many people in our community an opportunity to have access to the
golf course on a once a week basis. Mr. Valliere's recommendation is to
support the one league per player policy, with the exception of the Couples
League.
Bob Christianson indicated that the Council in 1987 adopted recommendations
from Park Board: 1) persons be allowed in one league only and 2) that
non-residents in league play will be phased out at the end of the 1989
season. The policy has been in transition for two playing seasons.
When discussion on this decision took place in 1987, there were no plans
for expansion of the golf course. There was some discussion on the
possibility of moving some league play to the new nine holes.
Mr. Lord asked how the new nine hole golf course is coming along and would
this pertain to the issues of non-residents and play on only one league.
Mr. Kojetin indicated that the Corps of Engineers are still reviewing the
nine -hole project at this time. The Corps of Engineers are requesting a
portion of land be set aside as undisturbed open space for wildlife. The
city has offered some of the SE corner of the hill as a possibility. If
everything goes right within the next 30 days we will probably have play in
June of 1991. Mr. Kojetin stated that we will go through the first year
observing play because there are so many people who want to play. Then in
the fall of 1991 we will make some consideration on league play for the
1992 season. At the present time, the new nine hole course would not be
affected by the current policy.
Mr. Christianson asked if there is sufficient demand from Edina residents
who either are or are not patron card holders that will absorb the entire
capacity of the new nine -hole? Mr. Valliere indicated yes, that they now
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have 2,000 patron card holders and the desire for additional rounds are
indicated by just the traffic on the present 18. An expansion of another
nine will help but it won't alleviate the problem.
Mr. Kojetin brought up the point that there are more senior citizens now
playing golf. The senior population is now dominating play at Braemar
during the daylight time, more so than in the earlier years at the golf
course.
Mr. Christianson brought up the point that Braemar does not restrict open
play to residents only. Mr. Valliere indicated that most of the time
patrons call in and make a reservation and they usually have non -patrons
with them. Those non -patrons may or may not be residents. Seventy-one
percent of traffic is patron traffic. Twenty-nine percent is non-resident
and non -patron.
Mr. Valliere explained how Bowling Green League has an unusual set of
circumstances. They are the only daytime league on the regulation course
with non-residents. Otherwise, evening leagues contain the non-residents.
This narrows down the daytime non -residency issue to 36 people. The
difficult part is if you make the decision to permit this league, we are
duty bound to defend this to the other non-residents that are not permitted
to stay. Mr. Valliere indicated to the audience and the park board that
the Bowling Green League has provided very good customers.
Mr. Christianson asked if there are waiting lists for the leagues and Mr.
Valliere replied that on some women's leagues there are waiting lists. He
also indicated that if all of the ladies leagues are not filled at this
time it will be utilized by open golf. In the future those times will fill
by possibly future residents who want to join those leagues.
Mr. Wineberg asked who originally invited the Bowling Green to play at
Braemar. A member of the audience replied that Mrs. Cooper and Janet Hyde
were playing in the Bowling Green league at the Eden Prairie Golf Course
and at that time indicated to their club that they were invited to move
their league to Braemar Golf Course.
The audience had many remarks on these two topics. There was a request
that the women who have been members on two leagues and also the
non-residents to still be able to continue as it is and to be grandfathered
in. Bill Jenkins stated he has a problem with a resident not being able to
play because of a non-resident. It was stated in the audience that they
are not taking away anyone's time. They only have a waiting list on
Wednesday, otherwise, they are open.
Another point brought up by the audience is, that if 28% of the time is for
leagues, what percentage is for women's league? The women's league goes
off at 7:00 a.m. and the league consists of 40 girls who are not residents
and 50 girls who are in two leagues. The audience asked what is the damage
that this amount of people is doing? Mr. Valliere indicated that if all of
our ladies leagues are gone tomorrow, our golf course would fill in the
morning. Right now Friday morning is the only week time from 7:00 a.m. to
9:30 a.m. for open golf.
mm
Another comment from the audience is that there isn't a woman's league
going off after 9:00 a.m. The leagues are off the front tee in a hurry.
For 90 of them why can't they have the grandfather clause, take in no more
non-residents and let people be in more than one league. Mr. Valliere
indicated that the two league issue is his biggest problem.
Also, the audience indicated that if it is grandfathered there shouldn't be
a problem since most of the women won't be around for a long time thus the
problem will take care of itself. The audience would like it recommended
to the Park Board that they have the grandfather clause extended.
Another point brought up by the audience was, if we take company groups,
within those groups, how many are residents? If we have two companies and
there were 40 or 50 people, it was suggested that only 5 might be residents
and they are taking up a four and a half to five hour play. Woman's league
is going on only one morning. So if it were taken down in count there are
more non-residents playing more hours on that course than Bowling Green's
38 girls.
Mr. Christianson stated that his problem is not the non-residents
percentage of use but, is with all of the residents backed up that cannot
get on the golf course. They are the people we represent and we have to
balance those concerns. No one answer will please everyone.
There was one member of the audience who is on a league at the Executive
course, and she indicated there are 32 non-residents in the league out of
160, and they have a waiting list of 27 people. The point was brought up
of possibly compromising, where you could be grandfathered in if you are a
non-resident who has golfed in the league for five years or more. That
would eliminate 17 of our people and that would grandfather all of Bowling
Green. No league has taken in non-residents in the last two years.
Mr. Valliere indicated that he could live with that but would still hold
fast to a single league.
Mr. Montgomery asked how many other non-residents are playing during non-
league time. Mr. Valliere said they do not poll those people.
Mr. Christianson indicated that the one league policy limits people to one
league regardless of gender. The present policy would go into effect the
end of this season. Next year, they will be entitled to one league. Mr.
Valliere indicated there is the one exception which is the mixed league,
because it is a co-rec situation, a player may play on one women's league
and one co-rec league.
The audience indicated that the men and women should be taken care of
separately. They are not equal. Mr. Von Schmidt -Pauli stated that the
men's club expanded this year to include men under 45. One can't compare
the women with what the men are doing.
A Richfield resident stated that Bowling Green is the oldest league in
Minnesota and they just had their 50th anniversary and can hardly bear the
thought of being broken up now.
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Mr. Von Schmidt -Pauli indicated that all of the groups that come to
Braemar, golfers and non -golfers, using the Braemar Room for activity are
put on the Marquis as a welcome to that group.
Mr. Christianson summed up the two issues. The first one is to continue
the policy that you can only be on one league with the exception of co-rec
league. At the present time, if we do nothing, the policy is effective at
the end of this year where you can only play on one league, and you have to
choose between your leagues.
MR. WINEBERG MOVED THAT WE RECONFIRM THAT AT THE END OF THIS YEAR YOU CAN
BELONG TO ONE LEAGUE PLUS YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE COUPLES LEAGUE.
BILL JENKINS SECONDED. PAT VAGNONI - OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIED.
The second issue is the termination of league rights of non-residents,
which goes into effect the end of this playing season.
This is not an issue with the men. All mens' leagues consist of Edina
residents only.
JIM FEE MOVED THAT WE MAKE A REVISION TO THE 1987 MOTION WHICH ELIMINATED
ALL NON-RESIDENTS AND THAT WE RESCIND THAT TO GRANDFATHER IN NON-RESIDENTS
THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN LEAGUE PLAY WITH NO LIMITATIONS AS FAR AS NUMBER OF
YEARS. ANDREW MONTGOMERY SECONDED
Discussion
Mr. Christianson opposed the motion, because it does discriminate against
Edina residents. He also stated that in league play you are guaranteed a
spot where in open play it is based upon a first come first serve basis.
SIX VOTED FOR, JAMES FEE, WILLIAM LORD, ANDREW MONTGOMERY, MAC THAYER,
DONALD WINEBERG, AND PAT VAGNONI. THREE OPPOSED, BOB CHRISTIANSON, BILL
JENKINS, AND JEAN RYDELL. MOTION PASSES.
C. Satellites
Mr. Kojetin indicated that there was a request to have a satellite placed
out on the north side of Braemar Boulevard on the Executive course. It
came from some ladies that play out there, who feel once they get an hour
away from the Executive Clubhouse that they can't make it back. Bob
Kojetin stated that the restrooms down in the Executive Clubhouse should
adequately serve the Executive Course traffic. Once you have a satellite
out there, you have to service it and that means you need a truck to come
out. What is happening now is they are going behind the trees.
Right now there is one satellite on the 18 course, but that is easy to
service and that is a much longer course. John Valliere indicated that
this executive golf course is one half of a normal nine. Mr. Wineberg
felt that if its just one group, there is not enough to go on for this
request. Mr. Kojetin indicated there are probably only a half dozen woman
involved with this request.
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DONALD WINEBERG MOVED THAT WE REJECT PLACING A SATELLITE ON THE EXECUTIVE
COURSE. BILL JENKINS SECONDED. BASED ON STAFF RECOMMENDATION, THERE WILL
BE NO SATELLITE.
d. Capital Improvements
Mr. Kojetin passed out a sheet on capital improvements that are presently
being worked on and some that will be done in 1990. Also, there are on
going situations on improvements for the golf course.
Bill Jenkins asked how the capital numbers for each year is determined.
Mr. Kojetin stated, it is based on what we anticipate our net figure to be
and what our cash flow is. We can kind of anticipate somewhere around
$75,000.00 beyond our equipment replacement.
3. SENIOR CENTER
Mr. Kojetin indicated that congregate dining is not working out at the
Community Center. It is due to the catering kitchen. They are not
performing or paying the rent and that makes it uncertain. Also, the
extremely hot weather brought down the number of people to about 15 a day.
Now that it is getting cooler, there are more people, but the uncertainty
with the caterer is still there.
The Volunteers of America said that if the numbers do not go up to 45
people by December they will have to eliminate the program. Ms. Weigle
indicated that now they are averaging about 40 people a day. Mr. Kojetin
stated if we lose the congregate dining, they will never come back to the
City of Edina again. There is quite a number of cities on the waiting list
that would like congregate dining. Mr. Jenkins asked what they were
averaging before they came to the Senior Center and Ms. Weigle stated about
100 people. She also pointed out that then they were in a building that
had many frail, elderly people that could come down and use the program. '
Volunteers of America would be happy with 40 to 50 people a day. Ms.
Weigle stated that with having so much instability with the catering
service, it has gotten to the point they have had to hire a Volunteers of
America part-time coordinator to see that the food is prepared in advance
so that people who are there can eat. Since the part-time coordinator has
started, it has improved.
Numbers everywhere seem to go down in the summer. When congregate dining
first began at the Community Center more than 500 new people attended the
first six months; but because the food was so poor many people didn't come
back. Through word of mouth more people are coming back again.
Instability of the caterer is the bottom line. We don't know if he will be
there two weeks from now. He hasn't paid his bills and most of the time is
not there.
Mr. Wineberg asked if "Meals on Wheels" is a possibility. Ms. Weigle
answered that she would not like to go to this because, first of all, the
caterer has to be gone before something else can be done. Mr. Kojetin
stated that the concept of "Meals on Wheels" is a different program. The
purpose of congregate dining is to provide a social atmosphere as well as
food.
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Mr. Jenkins asked why we don't get the caterer out of the congregate dining
and Mr. Kojetin indicated that he has a contract with the School District
which is in litigation right now, which could take a month or so.
The topic was brought up on whether there was air conditioning on the third
floor and Ms. Weigle indicated that there was not. If there was air
conditioning there for the summer months, Ms. Weigle would have no problem,
but she does not want them there year round. Mr. Kojetin indicated they
had an overall budget allocation of $20,000 for air conditioning, he has
had two quotes. His feeling is not the air condition but, the uncertainty
of the caterer.
Mr. Kojetin also suggested reactivating the committee to look into another
senior location. He questioned whether there was another location in the
SE corner of the city, or even the possibility of renting a facility. The
new concept across the country is to put senior centers in shopping malls.
Once we establish long range plans it should be located near the tram line
for easy transportation. The people who were on the Senior Search
Committee are Sue Weigle, Jean Rydell, Mrs. Reed, Glen Smith, and Bob
Kelly. Mr. Christianson stated it would be a good idea to reactivate the
committee.
Ms. Weigle indicated there was good news, there are about 300 new members
for the Senior Center.
4. BUDGET
Mr. Kojetin indicated the budget has not been approved yet. It will be
approved on Monday, October 16. The Council knows the Park Board has
approved the fees and charges.
5. WHITE OAKS LOT
Mr. Kojetin indicated that the White Oaks Lot has been bought by the City
of Edina for $40,000. $20,000 came from the resident and $20,000 came from
the city. The closing will be ready and signed within a week.
The Grove Street house topic was brought up and Mr. Kojetin stated that the
Grove Street property is open space, we removed the house, had a
neighborhood party and planted a lot of trees and put in a lot of wild
flower mixture, it looks kind of weedy right now. In a prairie grass area
it takes about three years to look good.
6. CORNELIA PARK WALKING PATH
Mr. Kojetin indicated that they have just resurfaced the path around Lake
Cornelia. In the original path, part of the money came from the State
bicycle funds, and we were obligated to have it as a bicycle path and as a
walking path. It has been very difficult to have one path for both. We
have tried to have bicycles going one way and walkers another, but it just
hasn't worked out. One option we could do is leave 66th street for
bicycles but have the remaining path for walkers.
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Mr. Kojetin suggested to the park board to use the walking path and see
what they think and have this topic be on next months agenda. Mr.
Christianson indicated he thought it was dangerous for walking pedestrians
and moving pedestrians to be on the same path.
7. ART CENTER
Mr. Kojetin indicated the bids came in at $217,000.00 without alternate's,
$232,000.00 with soft costs, which made it $32,000 over the budget. We
tried to look at cutting way back. The original base bid was $242,000.00
without soft costs and alternates, so it was cut back to $217,000.00 with
the add alternate and then tried to get it to $185,000.00, by gutting the
building. All bids have been rejected. Mr. Kojetin indicated he has met
with the architect and the low bidder. There was discussion on where some
cost cutting could come in to play. One major item that came up, is the
second room that has a 14 foot and a 9 foot ceiling. Bringing both ceilings
to 9 feet would save quite a bit as well as some other modifications with
the roof structure, and materials. We are rebidding and open the second
week of November. Awarding on the third Monday in November is what is now
scheduled.
8. JUPITER AND BEYOND
Mr. Kojetin reminded the board about the joint park board council meeting
scheduled for December 18, 1989. He indicated that we should look totally
at our program at the November meeting. Mr. Christianson indicated that
each committee needs to have a rough draft of their report at the November
meeting. On the agenda we should have the "Jupiter and Beyond" reports.
9. BRAEMAR ARENA ROOM
Mr. Kojetin indicated there has been some discussion on finishing the lower
room at the arena by two clubs. Mr. Thayer has been in close contact with
these two clubs. Mr. Keprios gave further insight on the proposal and
discussed how the lower room under the office area has not been finished.
The Hockey Association (with assistance from the hockey moms) would like to
see the room developed into a social gathering room. The Figure Skating
Club would ideally prefer extra amenities to accommodate other activities
such as dance, exercise etc. However, the Figure Skating Club has not yet
decided upon a plan. The two clubs have met with the architect who has
drawn up the design of how to redo the room very simply. Put new walls
around, ceiling, lights, carpeting, place at one end a counter, have a
storage area, and also have a second exit door going into the hallway or
into the tunnel area. The cost would be around $30,000.00, which each club
could put $15,000.00 into it. The groups could pay it off in a 3 year
period.
Mr. Christianson indicated that the only place we can get the money from we
have already taken money from twice: for the lights at Van Valkenberg
ballfields and the art center. Mr. Wineberg stated that there is one
point that is different and that is they will pay it back.
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•
Mr. Keprios indicated that timing is important for the figure skaters but
not so much for the hockey players. The figure skaters are having some
major competitions out there, the Midwest Figure Skating and the Great
Lakes Regional.
Mr. Christianson asked how much these groups could come up with now. Mr.
Keprios indicated he thought around $5,000.00 each. It was questioned
whether they could go to First Edina to borrow the money. Mr. Keprios
replied that the two organizations prefer a request to the City for a
non-interest bearing note to make it more affordable. The dollar figure is
not to exceed $20,000.00. Bob Kojetin and Bob Christianson will go before
the council on this topic.
BILL LORD MOVED TO PURSUE THE NON-INTEREST BEARING NOTE TO THE CITY COUNCIL
FOR $20,000.00, AND THAT EACH CLUB CONTRIBUTE $5,000.00 WITH A PAY BACK IN
THREE YEARS. MR. WINEBERG SECONDED.
MOTION CARRIED.
10. OTHER
Mr. Keprios is going to San Antonio for the National Park and Recreation
Conference.
Ms. Vagnoni asked about National Park Month, if we are doing anything.
Mr. Kojetin indicated that generally the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts go out
and clean up the parks. It's a tradition for them. Also, the Lions Club
has shown an interest in this.
Ms. Rydell indicated that she had heard that it costs $1,500.00 in order to
use a field to have a soccer tournament. Mr. Kojetin indicated that if
it's private it could be, but that the Soccer Association has a set policy
and it's not $1,500.00. Mr. MacHolda could answer any further questions on
this topic.
Mr. Keprios indicated that a contract for Van Valkenburg Park has been
agreed upon. Also, three scoreboards and a pop dispenser will be donated
by Coca-Cola as long as we buy their product for the next seven years.
The lighting, scoreboard, and public address system, on the first bid was
rejected. The new bid opening will be November 1, for just lights.
Hopefully they will be low enough. The low bid was $123,460.00 for just
the lights and wood poles. We budgeted $130,000.00.
11. ADJOURNMENT
DONALD WINEBERG MOVED TO ADJOURN AT 9:40 P.M. BILL JENKINS SECONDED THE
MOTION. MOTION CARRIED.
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