HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986-06-10 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
JUNE 10, 1986
7:30 P.M.
?DINA CITY HALL
MEMBERS PRESENT: Joan Lonsbury, George Warner, Don Wineberg, Marilyn Wooldridge,
Andy Montgomery, Bob Christianson, Bill Lord, Jim Fee, Jean
Rydell, Mack Thayer
STAFF PRESENT: Bob Kojetin, John Keprios, Ed MacHolda, Madelyn Krinke
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MAY 13, 1986 MEETING
Don Wineberg moved to approve minutes of the May 13, 1986 meeting. Andy
Montgomery seconded the motion. Motion passed.
II. NORMANDALE PARK
Bob Kojetin explained that the Park Board looks at the total development of the
Park and Recreation system. He listed the many factors which have gone into
proposing any changes for Normandale Park.
-Fifteen years ago was the last time any rearranging or grading was done at
Normandale Park. We look at park planning in a 20 year phase, so now we are
trying to bring Normandale Park up to date.
-The Park and Recreation Department staff prepares information on the total
programs and looks at what will be happening and tries -to evaluate if the
current park is being most efficiently run as it is or if it should be
changed.
-The trend in hockey has been that the number of participants has gone down and
more of the playing time is indoors. We have closed three rinks, but still have
ten open. The question which must be answered is if the statistics indicate how
many rinks should be left open or closed. It costs about $10,000 per year to
maintain a hockey rink. Eight hours of maintaining ice during the day is often
worthless when severe cold weather conditions occur or it snows in the evening
before the rink can be used.
-Mr. Kojetin showed a city map indicating how many areas overlap within a 3/4
mile radius which is usually used as a guideline for how far rinks should be
apart. Normandale sits right in the middle of all the other city rinks.
-The Park Board looks at whether there is a strong interest in the community for
use of a facility when deciding what to do with a park.
-This year there is $50,000 budgeted for improvements at Normandale Park. Of
that money, a minimum of $15,000 is needed to replace all the playground
equipment. The old equipment will have to be torn out.
-The hockey rink needs to be replaced if it is going to be used next year. The
boards alone will cost $10,000 so the question which must be answered is whether
or not to put the money into upgrading the hockey rink or should it be removed
and the area used for soccer/football fields.
-Soccer has been growing in numbers and two additional small soccer fields are
needed, especially since now the program includes 1st and 2nd graders.
-The jugs program was discontinued at Normandale because there were not enough
children in that area who signed up for that park.
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-There is a nice warming house at Normandale which should be used more in the
summer for playground activities and would also be available for soccer
players. The Park Board is looking to the community for input.
Joan Lonsbury invited discussion by the visitors. Tom Hardie, 5309 Whiting, was
the first to speak. Mr. Hardie stated that he felt that the statistics compiled
by the warming house attendants were not entirely accurate or complete. He said
that often coaches had to take their teams to other parks to practice because
Normandale was being used for broomball. He said he has used Normandale
extensively over the past few years and it is one of the better locations,
especially because of the natural protection from the wind because it is
surrounded by hills. Also, Mr. Hardie said Normandale is in an area surrounded
by houses, unlike Countryside rink which is bounded by a fire station, a church
and not many houses surrounding it. Mr. Hardie asked where the children would
be expected to go for skating if Normandale is closed. He feels the number of
children around Normandale Park is increasing because a lot of young families
have moved into the neighborhood in the last year or two.
Nancy Atchison asked if a general skating area would be left and commented that
a lot of people, including herself, enjoy figure skating and general skating at
Normandale. Bob Kojetin indicated that there could be a recreational skating
rink there.
Ron Couch expressed his concern about a change in traffic patterns if soccer
fields were built, particularly around Warren Ave. and 66th Street. He inquired
about the methodology of obtaining statistics : rink attendant may not be the
best way of evaluating it. Why take away a rink where you have a natural
setting with a wind barrier?
Don Wineberg stated that he agreed that the method was relative and may seem
unprofessional, but it is done the same at every park.
Rick Nelson, 5204 Danens Dr., said he felt a park should be available for
unorganized sports and soccer fields would not be used for anything other than
soccer. As it is now the park can be used for playing baseball and hockey
anytime without being organized.
Karen Busch, 5229 Duggan Pl., commented that she saw a group of 26 youngsters
who had just gotten together informally for a baseball game and thought it was a
good opportunity for neighborhood youth and would not want to see the park
changed to prevent that type of activity from taking place. Ms. Busch also
pointed out that a number of retired persons have moved and there are at least
14 children who have come into the neighborhood in the last year and a half.
She also asked where parents could send their elementary children to skate that
they would not have to cross main roads if Normandale were not available.
Darcy Szarzynski, 6616 Naomi, said that the demographics are changing
drastically and his family uses the park daily. He would not like to see a
soccer field there, but would like a new rink.
Chuck DeVries, 6405 Ridgeview Dr., commended the Board for expanding soccer, but
was wondering about the demographics for the year 2000? Bob Christianson
indicated that the projections are not always entirely correct, but that there
are plans to again use Highland School in 1990.
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Tom Skala, 5313 Whiting, stated that Normandale Park has not been used for Jug
ball for a couple of years because the numbers were down, however it may be
needed again next year because of the number of youngsters who are in that area
again. Another consideration for leaving a hockey rink at Normandale is that
youngsters are not able to ride a bike to Countryside for hockey because of the
cold weather, however they can bike there in the summer for Jugs.
Karen Busch asked where money comes from for the parks and how we can get more
money for the park. Bob Kojetin explained how money is budgeted for the parks
and each year for upkeep of parks. Karen Busch asked if there would be some way
of getting more money to operate the parks. Bob Christianson said there are
only so many dollars to go around. If citizens of the city want more for parks,
it would probably require raising taxes.
Bob Price, 6412 Rolf, asked whether the liquor store profits are used for
revenue. Bob Kojetin replied that about $300,000 is used to subsidize parks.
The rest goes into the general fund. Mr. Kojetin stated that since 1962 the
Park and Recreation Department has received $80,000 a year for capital
improvements from the liquor store profits.
Holly Knutson said there was always someone on the rink, however the big rink is
not used that much.
Doris Underwood said she hoped that money would be put into the hockey rink, not
into a soccer field. She does not want to see groups of older youth coming
there to play soccer.
One member of the audience thought that putting in a soccer field would restrict
free play at the park because there would be too much organized soccer being
played there and the soccer fields would take away a lot of space for general
use.
Rich Novak, Ridgeview Dr., stated that the topography of the park is very
important near the fields and asked when the playground equipment would be put
in. Bob Kojetin replied that the equipment would be replaced this year.
Mr. Zamanski, 5041 W. 66th, said the Park Board should look at the crowd present
as a complement, they have done a great job. That is why people came to keep
the park as it is. He further stated that the hill is a natural boundary and
provides isolation and protection from the weather.
Dana Arnold, 6341 Mildred Ave., said that a lot of times rink attendants were
not present when skaters were using the rinks. Also the ice was not maintained
to the end of February.
Pat Kasper, 6608 Naomi Dr., expressed concern about parking problems. Bob
Kojetin said that had not been considered yet. Mr. Kojetin further said he felt
that a soccer field would also provide a free play area, but whether or not a
soccer field is built at Normandale, the area would be upgraded to make a better
area.
A concern was expressed about how the topography would be changed. Bob Kojetin
replied that no real change would take place.
Ms. Faulkner, 5213 Danens Dr., asked if the baseball field would be removed if a
soccer field is put in. She would like to see a balance of opportunities for
the neighborhood.
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Rick Oftel, 6400 Warren Ave., asked if the hockey rink is closed will that
preclude the other rink and would the lights be turned off then also? Mr. Oftel
said the lights are needed for sliding on the hills also. He feels Normandale
is one of the nicest parks in the city.
Park Board members spoke to the issue: Bill Lord said he would be in favor of
keeping the Normandale Park as it is, Bob Christianson thought it would be
better not to close the hockey rink at this time - look at other areas that are
questionable, have to have more information; Mack Thayer commented that it
seems the interest is strong for keeping the rinks; Andy Montgomery said he
leans toward the neighborhood park concept; Marilyn Wooldridge said because it
is so isolated and children would have to cross highways to go to another park
she would favor leaving the hockey rink; Don Wineberg felt that if the need
exists for the soccer fields, he did not see why it would be so bad to do so;
George Warner agreed it is a little premature to make any alterations of the
park, and would like to keep it much the way it is.
John Keprios remarked that it was good to hear all the comments from the
neighbors of the park and said that in making decisions about the parks, the
needs of the programs in the entire city must be taken into account, and at some
time in the future the neighbors of Normandale Park might have to be asked to
understand the needs for the entire city's recreational needs.
Bob Kojetin expressed his appreciation also for the response from the community
on what direction to go. Mr. Kojetin explained the reason Normandale rink was
closed before some of the others is because the ice begins to melt there earlier
because the rink is built on peat and also because of the East-West orientation
of the rink.. One of the recommendations is to raise the level of the hockey
rink up 2 -3' higher to have better soil and not such a deep slope from the
building to the rink. Bob Kojetin stated it would be his opinion that the park
should remain as is, but be upgraded because of the comments from the neighbors.
Joan Lonsbury thanked all the neighbors for coming to the meeting and for their
concern for the neighborhood park.
III. HISTORICAL PARK PRESENTATION
Jim Finlayson, President of the Edina Historical Society, stated that there are
many programs planned for the coming year. Donna Skagerberg elaborated on some
of the activities being planned and reported on some that have been successful
in the past. Donna stated the purpose of the Historical Society is to gather
and provide historical information for this community, and since Wooddale School
has been gone the society has been short of space to perform these functions.
Much more space is needed to allow for research, genealogy searches, displaying
of about 5,000 items now in their collection. A goal of the Historical Society
is to reflect on the past 100 years of history of the community, and to look
forward to dedicating efforts to strengthen the community for another 100
years.
Mr. Finlayson reported that the Historical Board has endorsed the study which
was done by Miller-Dunwiddie. The plan is to leave the Grange Hall and school
at Tupa Park. The proposal is for a new building at Utley Park.
John Keprios noted that the drawings show the building located where the tennis
courts are now and asked if that is the only spot where the building could be
built.
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There was discussion about the possibility of using the Parbury property for the
new building site. Foster Dunwiddie noted that it is not a prime location for a
Historical building and Utley Park would be far more suitable because it is
located on such a busy street. Bob Christianson expressed a concern about
making any change in the Wooddale/Utley Parks since plans at those parks were
thoroughly discussed with the neighbors last year and the Park Board made a firm
recommendation and commitment to a plan which was agreed upon with the neighbors
of that area.
Joan Lonsbury questioned whether Arneson Acres could be used for the Historical
Society site, as it seems to be a good location on a busy street, easy access
from a main highway; it has a parking area, and building space already available
which could possibly be expanded. It would also be compatible with the Garden
Clubs. Foster Dunwiddie replied that he thought it was not available because of
the terms of the conveyance of the property to the city. Several other Park
Board members agreed that they thought Arneson Acres seemed like a good location
for the Historical Society to consider. Glenn Smith interjected that the group
was looking for the best possible location and had come up with Utley Park, but
they would be willing to reconsider the location if Arneson Acres is in fact a
possibility.
Bob Christianson asked whether additional parking spaces would be needed if the
new building was built in Utley Park. Foster Dunwiddie did not think there
would be a need for more parking.
Funding was discussed briefly. The proposal as presented would cost about
$440,000. The annual operating cost is anticipated to be $12,000. The Study
Committee has investigated methods of funding, and project that they might be
able to raise most of the funds necessary for construction and would hope to set
up an endowment fund for upkeep.
Further comments by Park Board members were made. Jean Rydell, Jim Fee and Bill
Lord all agreed that if Arneson Acres is available it should be considered. Bob
Christianson voiced opposition to taking away any more green area from parks,
because once it is gone it can not be regained. Mr. Christianson again said he
thought it would be wrong to go back to the neighbors and propose any change in
the plans that were agreed upon last year. Bob asked whether the Parbury
property on 44th Street would be a possibility for a building site. He would be
in favor of the Arneson Acres site if it is available. Marilyn Wooldridge
agreed that the timing couldn't be worse to make a proposal to the Utley
neighbors after the meetings that were held last year. She feels the Park Board
would lose credibility if the Historical Society's site proposal were endorsed
by the board. Don Wineberg also stated that even though Utley Park may be the
best site choice in the estimation of the Historical Society, it would be a poor
choice based on the previous year's discussions and agreements. He too felt
that there was a lot of green space at Arneson Acres and would recommend looking
into that site as a possibility. George Warner stated that he felt that having
gone through the meetings with the Utley neighbors this would be a very poor
time to bring a proposal to the public to locate the historical building in that
park. It could never be done without public hearings. He agreed that Arneson
Acres would be a good alternative.
Bob Kojetin stated that the 44th Street property has been developed the way the
neighbors in that area wanted. Bob Christianson responded that if there is
activity in that area then it should be left alone.
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Donna Skagerberg said that when the BRW report came out, the recommendation was
to move all the historical buildings to Utley Park, and that was a strong
consideration when the Study Committee was looking at proposal sites. Bob
Kojetin commented that it is because of the meetings with the neighbors after
the BRW report came out that the board is resisting the Utley site proposal.
Glenn Smith concluded that it would be best for the Study Committee to
investigate the possibilities of Arneson Acres as a building site and come back
to the Park Board with further recommendations.
IV. OTHER
Joan Lonsbury presented a letter from Mary Smith to the Park Board asking for a
special interpreter for her daughter who is deaf. John Keprios stated that he
had talked to Mary Smith and had tried to find volunteers who might perform that
task, and could not locate any volunteers. It would cost about $200 to hire a
special interpreter, therefore he would need special approval. John told the
Park Board that he does not know if the city is legally obligated to provide
special services like this for the handicap, Hennepin County does provide
services for the handicapped in nearly every program. Keprios said that we do
provide some part time staff for the Edina Special Children's Group each year.
Bob Christianson indicated that if it was decided to provide this special
service it would probably set a precedent and any future requests would also
have to be honored. Joan Lonsbury suggested that the request be forwarded to
the Human Relations Board to see if they can fund something like this. Joan
said she would write a letter and say we can not fund it at this time and that
the request is being forwarded to the Human Relations Board. The Board agreed
that would be a good idea.
John Keprios handed out a tennis court report. He indicated he is concerned
about going ahead and resurfacing Utley courts if there is a possibility that
they would be moved.
Bob Christianson was recognized and thanked for his past years of service as
representative from the School Board to the Park Board. His term expired with the
June 10th board meeting.
Bob Kojetin announced that the Braemar Inspection Tour will be conducted the second
Tuesday of September.
Andy Montgomery made a motion to adjourn. Bill Lord seconded.
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
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