HomeMy WebLinkAbout1985-08-12 Park Board MinutesEDINA PARK BOARD
August 12, 1985
7:30 p.m.
Edina City Hall
MEMBERS PRESENT: Joan Lonsbury, Robert Christianson, James Fee, Bill Lord,
Andrew Montgomery, Mack Thayer, George Warner, Don Wineberg
STAFF PRESENT: Bob Kojetin, John Keprios, Eddie MacHolda, John Valliere,
Larry Thayer, Madelyn Krinke
Chairperson Joan Lonsbury called the meeting to order.
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JULY 9, 1985 MEETING.
Don Wineberg moved to approve the minutes of the July 9, 1985 meeting.
Mack Thayer seconded the motion. Motion carried.
II. WOODDALE SCHOOL
Bob Kojetin presented and explained the proposed plan, Plan E from
BRW Architects, which is the plan the Park Board had recommended previously
to the Council. Mr. Kojetin explained that the usual procedure followed
in developing any city park is to hire someone to do a plan of how a
park may be constructed. The Park Board and staff must be concerned
with how the plan fits into the total park system. Then this plan is
submitted to the neighbors around the park for their input. Neighbor-
hood input is important and so far, Mr. Kojetin said that two meetings
have been held; one with a committee of neighbors and another with
neighbors contiguous to Wooddale Park. These meetings were held for the
purpose of obtaining input from the neighbors. Wooddale Park is some-
what different because of how it was acquired, and how it is to be
used and handled. Mr. Kojetin stated that at the directive of the
council,the Park Department and other city staff had gone back over a
lot of input which has been brought up over the last year. Bob Kojetin
pointed out that funding was set aside already for developing the park
so a lot of the work can be done right now. This is not the case with
other parks which usually must be completed in stages over a number of
years.
Bob Kojetin explained that Plan E as recommended, is a starting point
and that there were several options for specific plans using the Plan E
as a guideline. He indicated that the Park Board would not address the
issue of Utley Park since at an earlier Park Board meeting it was
indicated that there is currently no funding or plans to do work there.
Bob stated the Park Board would need to discuss the number of parking
spaces they feel is necessary for a park, depending upon what type of
activities would take place in the park. The Park Department staff
recommends a large open space 140''x 300' which could be used by younger
children for such things as soccer, football, t -ball, but which would not
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be scheduled for league games. A t -ball field would only need a small
outfield, the main consideration being a large open space which could
be used for younger children activities. The most logical area to
develop for this purpose would seem to be where there is already
irrigation in the current open space previously used for t-ball/soccer.
T -ball and soccer could be scheduled at Wooddale if there were enough
youngsters who sign up to create teams if the space is there. Bob
Kojetin continued showing possible layouts of playground equipment areas,
including a large tiny tot and regular playground equipment area with
concrete curbing and sand in the middle. The tiny tot area could be
separate from the older children's playground area by benches; therefore,
be visible so that parents might be able to watch children playing in
both areas at the same time. Bob Kojetin stated that he felt it would
be necessary to provide some parking for people who drive to the park,
and the staff agreed that 25 spaces would be adequate to accommodate the
types of activities which he foresees being conducted there.
Mr. Kojetin reported that the council had received a petition with 175
signatures representing 144 dwellings, requesting some type of skating
rink in the park. He indicated that three rinks had been closed in
the last five years and others had been downgraded because of lack of
use by skaters. The trend in the last few years has been that hockey
players and figure skaters seldom use outdoor ice because it is so
unpredictable due to the weather. Mr. Kojetin stated that there is
presently a committee studying the feasibility of another covered rink.
Mr. Kojetin said the staff had discussed possibilities of a rink at
Wooddale Park in response to the petition. One possibility would be
to flood a hard surface area which could be 100' x 100', so it could be
used for hard court activities such as volleyball, basketball in the
summer and an ice rink in the winter. Mr. Kojetin explained that it
would be easier to make ice on a hard surface than on the ground, but
that maintaining ice on an outdoor rink is very costly. He stated
that he would not recommend any other type of rink than one for young
children for recreational skating - no hockey boards or rink, nor would
he put a warming house there with a restroom and an attendant. He would
recommend some type of sun shelter for skate changing.
Regarding fencing, Mr. Kojetin recommended some type of fencing on the
south side, not parallel with the sidewalk, but create a larger
boulevard area. He noted that the wall on the north side of the park
is crumbling and the fence would have to be replaced or repaired.
Lighting would be similar to what is currently in the Country Club area
along the east and south side of the park and the fence to Williams
Park would be dismantled.
Joan Lonsbury opened up the floor to discussion by the Park Board.
Don Winberg asked whether this was the same plan as the one discussed
in public meetings in the winter and if so why are there so many
objections being raised now that we're not in the beginning. Bob Kojetin
replied that it is the same plan with only a few modifications, including
enlarging the playground area and adding a hard surface area, specifying
25 parking stalls, and removal of the walking path on the north and west.
Mr. Kojetin said he has heard comments from residents about wanting a
walking path completed all the way around the park and from others that
do not want one.
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Bob Christianson asked if the increased hard surface area is in
response to the petition for an ice skating rink. Bob Kojetin replied
yes. Bob Christianson asked how much the additional cost would be,
and where the closest skating rinks are now. Bob Kojetin indicated
that Arden and Weber are the closest. Bill Lord asked whether there
would be a rink at Utley Park if there was one built at Wooddale.
Mr. Kojetin replied that there would not be one at Utley, and he did
not know if there could be one in Utley Park at all. Bob Christianson
asked whether Mr. Kojetin knew how a hard surface would hold up if used
for an ice rink, and how many years it would be before having to redo
the surface. Mr. Kojetin wasn't sure how many years it would be,
however he felt it would certainly have to be done more frequently if
used for an ice rink, but the total cost factor would be offset by the
lower cost of maintaining ice on a hard surface. Mr. Kojetin said if
this concept were to be used, he would have to investigate it further.
Don Wineberg asked how much the rink would be used if there was no
warming house at the rink. Mr. Kojetin replied that we have about
six (6) days in a normal winter when the weather conditions are ideal
for skating and for ice making, which is 200 F by Weather Bureau
statistics.
Joan Lonsbury asked what the financial limitations are and how much
money is available. Mr. Kojetin reported that $125,000 was transferred
from the school to the city when the property was acquired, $100,000
from developers fund and $100,000 from the park capital budget which
must be spread over the next four years at the rate of $25,000 per
year. The amount used for the demolition, drawings and studies which
have been done is $171,000, leaving about $150,000 for the park
development this year and next year. Some rough estimates which
Mr. Kojetin gave for development were $30-35,000 for playground equipment,
$35,000 for parking lot, $10-15,000 to rejuvenate the irrigation and
introduce to another area, $40-50,000 to build a hard surface for both
winter and summer usage, $10-15,000 for fencing and wall, and $15,000
for landscaping and trees.
Joan Lonsbury opened the floor to comments from the residents.
Mark Haymaker asked if the school has any right to take the site back
if it is needed for a school in the future. Bob Christianson stated
that the terms of transfer were that if the school deems that it needs
the site for school purposes, it has the right to claim the site, and
to the extent of the capital improvements to the facility, would have
to repay the city. Mr. Haymaker expressed several other concerns 1) the
concrete wall on the north side is crumbling and he would suggest a
grass burm when it is redone, 2) if a tunnel was built under the
bridge, he is concerned about security, how it would be policed at night,
if it would be lit, how secure it would be, 3) parking lot issue - since
private industry was not allowed to buy and use the site, he feels it
is inappropriate that a church should have any influence on building a
parking lot for their use, that if St. Stephens has a problem with
parking, they should resolve the problem without using city property
as a solution. After several comments from residents about wanting
to discuss the parking lot issue, Bob Kojetin restated the City
Council's directive to the Park Board to address the park as they see
it, as a park only.
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Mike Lewis expressed a concern about the access to the park being
from Wooddale Avenue. Dave Duhaime requested that the Park Board
give a strong opinion that 25 parking spaces is enough and is what
the community wants. Pat Nelson stated that she felt that the parking
lot is only being included to accommodate St. Stephens Church because
the parking area which was at Wooddale School was only used by the
church, and access from Wooddale Avenue would be very dangerous.
Don Wineberg stated that experts were hired to study the best access
to the park and the recommendation from them was to enter from Wooddale.
Pam Griffin stated she felt there were very few cars using the parking
lot at the park unless there was something going on at the church.
She would like to see the park preserved as a natural setting and
leave apparatus for the older children. George Psihos (4607 Wooddale)
stated that he feels it is extremely important to make the park one
for toddlers because there is nothing in that area for small
children. He feels it is wrong to make a parking lot in the park
because it would be taking away an opportunity to provide a park for
children and would be catering to adults. Mr. Magnuson agreed there
should be no parking lot and should be no walking path on the west
side of the park. Charles Philipp agreed we should not provide a
large number of parking spaces to be used by the church. Wendy Powell
asked that they consider an overpass into Utley Park rather than an
underpass because it is cleaner and safer for people to use.
Joe Price wants to see the north fence left and burm put in. He also
feels that the ratio of users on a skating rink at Wooddale would not
justify the cost.
Janie Paulus indicated that the residents near the Wooddale School
were mostly under the impression that the school would be razed and
then final plans would be made for development of the park and they
were not aware that it would be done immediately after the demolition
which is why they had not been expressing their concerns about park
development previously. She feels that the park should be designed
with the very young children as the primary influence because of the
large numbers of K - 3rd graders in the area of the park, and that
there should not be any parking lot.
Marilyn Hoch stated that she had taught in Stillwater where they
used a hard surface area and flooded for a skating rink in the winter
and the surface was cracked and not useable for a play area most of the
time because of the poor condition of the surface.
Mike Lewis stated that he feels parking space in the park would be
selling off park land for church parking.
Jim Lofquist stated that traffic is going to create a serious hazard
if there are two entrances to the park because he feels it will
be used as a race way. Bob Kojetin referred Mr. Lofquist to the
Traffice Safety Committee regarding a stop sign at the corner of
Browndale and Country Club and one at Country Club and Wooddale.
Kathy Stassen asked how the Park Board could give a recommendation
to the council if they did not look at the Utley Park together with
the Wooddale Park in regard to parking and the total park system.
Bob Kojetin replied that there are no plans now to develop Utley Park
and to leave it as it is, therefore it was not a consideration. There
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was confusion about the number of parking spaces at Utley and
proposed spaces by several of the residents. Bob Kojetin clarified
that there is presently a total of 39 parking spaces. George
Daravingas (4507 Drexel) stated that the people came to the Park Board
meeting to discuss the recommendation the Board will give to the council,
and that must include discussion about the parking lot. He asked that
no parking lot be put in the park. Sally Kennedy repeated the need for
a tot playground in the park, and that 42 parking spaces are too many.
ANDY MONTGOMERY MADE A MOTION THAT PLAN E AS PRESENTED BE ACCEPTED
WITH THE ENLARGED PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT AND THAT THERE BE NO MORE
THAN TWENTY-FIVE (25) PARKING SPACES. Motion seconded by Jim Fee.
Discussion - Bob Christianson questioned the directive from the
Council regarding the parking and access. Bob Kojetin stated that he
understood that the parking issue would be decided by the council,
but the Park Board should make a recommendation on what is needed
based on the usage of the park, and that the park staff recommends
25 parking spaces for park usage. Mr. Kojetin further stated that
it could be possible to change the recommendation of Plan E regarding
access from Wooddale to access from 50th Street.
Bob Christianson asked if a wading pool was included in this recommendation.
Bob Kojetin replied that it was not. After further discussion regarding
access, Bob Kojetin stated that BRW had chosen Wooddale Avenue as the
access based on the volume of traffic on both 50th and Wooddale streets.
George Warner commented that he feels that whenever a neighborhood
park is developed, it is done for the use by all the people in Edina,
not just that particular neighborhood and for that reason, there should
be some type of parking provided in the park.
Bill Lord said that because of limits of finances, he would like to see
a priority list of what to do first in the park. Bob Kojetin stated
that he would like to have a priority list made from input from the
residents, and that the playground issue is probably the first priority
to do; followed by grass and irrigation. Bob Christianson asked if the
staff recommended the number of 25 parking spaces. Bob Kojetin and
John Keprios responded yes, it was. John Keprios elaborated on the
question - the park department recognizes that there was no parking
area created at Arden Park and Todd Park and realize that it was a
mistake not to do so and their recommendation for parking at Wooddale
is based on past experience as well as on activities they foresee
in the park.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
III. BRAEMAR GOLF COURSE - Club House Expansion
Bob Kojetin presented the drawings of the planned expansion of the club house.
Bob explained that bids would be going out in one week. The club house
expansion will include a 200 seating capacity room on the south side, expansion
of the Pro Shop, new office for managers and golf pro, new hallway on east side
of building, new main entrance (into present building) and new expanded room.
There will be a link between club house and pro shop so people do not have to
walk outside.
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On lower level a small expansion of the locker rooms. There would be.3 rooms;
one for a men's lounge, one a ladies lounge, and a combination room for
men and ladies. This room could be used for a conference room or to
hold tournament special events. The ladies locker room would be changed
to a new location and the old locker room would be incorporated to a
golf cart storage area, under the expanded Pro shop/office; which
would include a toilet and concession area.
Bob Kojetin explained that the plans had been reviewed a number of
times by people on the Golf Committee and staff and feels now that
present plans and traffic patterns are satisfactory. Don Wineberg
also commented on the number of people and reviews of different
combinations of traffic patterns in the locker room facilities of the
men and women. He indicated that the Golf Committee will meet again
on Thursday, August 22 to see final plans. Don Wineberg moved to
accept the plans as presented for the expansion of the club house.
George Warner seconded and was passed unanimously.
IV. BRAEMAR GOLF COURSE - Par 3 Expansion
Bob Kojetin described the plans for the expansion of the par 3 course.
The plans are the same as was ready for bid last winter. However, they
now include State Aid for Braemar Boulevard by State Aid Project. This
will allow Braemar Boulevard to be reconstructed to #2 tee. With State
Aid, the par 3 course has a better finance package. Included in State
Aid Road Project package are many storm water control and ponding areas,
which are necessary for water movement in the area. These requirements
would previously had to have been included in the construction of the
par 3 course. The State has not approved the cost of a bridge as of
yet, but hopefully they will. The new bridge across Braemar Boulevard
would be 110' long and 10' wide. The cost of the bridge would be around
$30,000 of which the State may pay 509 to 100%. Other new improvements
to Braemar Boulevard would include a curb and sidewalk on the south
side of Braemar Boulevard. This sidewalk would be a continuation of
the sidewalk on the South side of Dewey Hill Road. At the end of the
sidewalk of the road improvement we could mark a large white line on
the road which would continue all the way around to the Golf Course
Maintenance Building and connect to the present path.
The fill from tees one and ten will be taken and placed onto Braemar
Boulevard (approximately 6' high) for six months to compact the fill
before use. Bob Kojetin added that the improvements to the par 3 course
will add a lot to Braemar Golf Course both financially and aesthetically.
Bob Christiansen moved to accept the Par 3 Expansion plans as drawn. Don
Wineberg seconded and was passed unanimously.
V. FEES AND CHARGES
Bob Kojetin presented the fees and charges for 1986. Bob explained
that a one dollar increase on most programs is necessary to keep up
with inflation. Bob also explained that the Art Center fees and charges
have not been established. Bob Christiansen moved to accept the fees
and charges structure as presented . Bill Lord seconded and was passed
unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 10:55 p.m.