HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 09-02 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes RegularMINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE EDINA
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON SEPTEMBER 2, 1987, AT 7:30 P.M.
EDINA CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman William Lewis, Lee Johnson,
Helen McClelland, Gordon Johnson, John
Palmer, Virginia Shaw and Jane Paulus
MEMBERS ABSENT: David Runyan, John Bailey and Del
Johnson
I. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES:
Mr. John Palmer moved for approval of the July 29, 1987
Community Development and Planning Commission Meeting. Mrs. Shaw
seconded the motion. All were in favor. The motion carried.
Mr. Gordon Johnson asked the minutes of July 29, 1987 meeting to
reflect he abstained on the Edinborough vote.
II. NEW BUSINESS:
S-87-8 Preliminary Plat Approval for Nob Hill,
Marnie Development, Inc.
General Location: Generally located west of Highway 100
and north of West 66th Street
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission the subject property
measures 5.05 acres in area. Four property owners have combined
all or portions of their property in this proposed plat. As
proposed, six new buildable lots would be created. The lots
would range in size from 18,300 square feet to 29,310 square
feet. The development would be served by the extension of Nob
Hill Drive. Right of way for this extension was provided by the
Oak Ridge of Edina plat.
Mr. Larsen pointed out the subject property is heavily
wooded and is steeply sloped, especially in the westerly
portions. Lots 2 through 8 would be the new lots. Lots 1 and 4
would serve existing dwellings. Lots 2, 3, 7 and 8 would meet or
exceed Zoning Ordinance requirements for single family lots.
Lots 5 and 6 fail to provide the required 75 foot lot width. The
Zoning Ordinance requires that lots provide 75 feet of lot width,
measured at a point 50 feet from the front property line.
Consequently, a variance from the lot width requirement would be
required for lots 5 and 6.
Mr. Larsen added the preliminary plat proposes a 40 foot
street right of way and a 22 foot wide street. The City's normal
design standards call for a 60 foot right of way and a 30 foot
street width. On short cul de sacs we have accepted a 50 foot
right of way and a 28 foot street width. The City Engineer would
expect the same from this development. The extension of Nob Hill
Drive is proposed at a grade of 7 percent. This is our normal,
maximum grade.
As mentioned earlier the property is characterized by very
steep slopes. The ground falls away dramatically west of the
proposed street. To the east of the new street the ground rises
significantly. The proposed elevation of the cul de sac is a
compromise solution. Driveway access to most of the lots would
be difficult under any development scenario. Development of the
subdivision will require extensive use of retaining walls.
Retaining walls will be required along the entire easterly length
of the street ending at the north end of the new cul de sac.
Also a large retaining wall will be required in the existing
right of way adjacent to the existing house on the west side of
Nob Hill Drive, 5023 Nob Hill Drive. Due to the height of the
proposed walls, detailed specifications will be required by the
Engineering Department prior to final approval.
Mr. Larsen told the Commission during hearings on the Oak
Ridge of Edina plat Barr Engineering did a storm water analysis
of the area and the impact of development on the pond located,
southwesterly of the proposed development. Barr Engineering's
analysis assumed 17 more lots would be developed following the
Oak Ridge Plat. Their analysis concluded that the additional
development could occur without adversely impacting surrounding
properties.
The extension of Nob Hill Drive and further development in
this area have been anticipated and planned. It is however, an
extremely difficult property to develop. The building pad for
lots 7 and 8 would be well below street grade. The pad for lots
2 and 3 would be well above street grade. Also, because of the
relative grades and locations of the two existing dwellings on
the north end of Nob Hill Drive special care must be taken to
protect these properties.
The lots in the proposed plat average 25,165 square feet in
area. This compares to 22,280 square feet for lots in the Oak
Ridge Plat. From a site planning standpoint staff is concerned
with lots 5 through 8. This is the area with the most severe
topography. The Comprehensive Plan calls for larger lots under
these conditions. Also, lots 5 and 6 fail to meet minimum
Ordinance standards. Staff would suggest that lot 8 be made
wider and that lots 5, 6 and 7 be combined to form two conforming
lots. A graphic suggesting a modified 5 lot plat is attached.
Mr. Larsen concluded if one lot is removed and the following
conditions are satisfied staff would recommend approval of the
preliminary plat.
1. A revised 5 lot preliminary plat similar to staff's
suggestion.
2. Increase proposed street right of way to 50 feet and
road width to 28 feet.
3. Developers Agreement to include detailed plans and
specifications for retaining walls.
4. An erosion control plan acceptable to Nine Mile Creek
Watershed District and the City Engineer.
5. Final Plat approval and Subdivision Dedication.
The proponents, sir. Robert Ingstrom and Peter Marnie, were
present. Residents of the area were also present.
Mr. Ingstrom with the aide of slides pointed out the unique
topography and vegetation of the property. He said special
effort must be made to save the vegetation. He commented that a
tree survey was ordered and on the site there are many
substantial White Oak trees. Mr. Ingstrom also said there is a
need for retaining walls and at this point the proposed walls
would be constructed of large boulders.
Mr. Gordon Johnson asked what will happen to the existing
cul de sac. Mr. Hoffman, City Engineer, said the existing cul de
sac could be trimmed down, curbed and the storm sewer
realigned.
Mr. Gordon Johnson wondered if it is possible to enter the
property from the northwest corner of West 66th Street and what
would the slope be. Mr. Ingstrom responded at this point on the
site the slope is relatively flat Mr. Larsen added the adjacent
property owners will be impacted regardless of which entrance is
constructed. Mr. Gordon Johnson commented he feels the proposed
cul de sac with 15 or 16 houses placed on it and each house
generating 6 + trips per day and adding weekend traffic will
result in possible traffic problems and congestion. Mrs.
McClelland pointed out the steep grade of the cul de sac would
also create possible problems. Mr. Hoffman said 7% is the
standard grade, City staff prefer grade levels at 2%. Above 7%
is only permitted where development cannot be accomplished on a
lesser slope. Mr. Hoffman added staff have not studied plans
with an ingress from the north. Mr. Ingstrom pointed out he does
not own the property where a ingress from West 66th Street could
be placed.
!I
Mrs. McClelland said she finds it very difficult to vote on
this project without further serious study. She added she has
serious doubts on the possibility of its development. Mrs.
McClelland referred to past experiences with sites containing
steep topography adding the Commission must pay very careful
attention to the topography when considering approval. She added
in her opinion 6 homes exceed what the site will comfortably
handle. Mrs. McClelland wondered if as a Body the Commission has
an obligation to see that very piece of property in Edina is
developed.
Mr. Gordon Johnson commented he is extremely uneasy in
granting preliminary approval for new subdivision and
construction on a site that warrants a variance. Traditionally
the Commission allows a variance when a hardship has been
defined. Mr. Johnson said he finds no hardship on this site and
feels the property should be developed without the need for
variances. He pointed out the proponent may have to scale down
his proposal from 6 lots to 5 to meet the requirements.
Mr. Lee Johnson asked Mr. Hoffman what the spec is on the
paved diameter of the cul de sac. Mr. Hoffman said the cul de
sac has a 70 foot diameter. Mr. Johnson asked if a 70 foot
diameter can handle a fire truck. Mr. Hoffman said none of
Edina's cul de sacs can handle Edina's largest fire truck.
Mr. Jeff Christensen of Nob Hill Drive told the Commission
he feels the topography of the site is steeper than 7%. He added
the retaining walls would be substantial, which could pose a
problem. Mr. Christensen recommended constructing a cul de sac
from the far west border of Lot 4. The grade from that angle
would be slight.
Mr. Dick Schultz of Nob Hill Drive told the Commission he is
very concerned with water run off and it's possible effect on the
storm sewer and the pond. He also expressed concern about the
condition of the original cul de sac, snow removal and traffic
concerns. Mr. Schultz said he felt the proposed 6 lots were
extreme.
Eva Mae, resident of the area told the Commission grade is
very important and a real concern. The reason for her uneasiness
is if the road is put through, a steep road will rise above her
driveway.
Mr. Hoffman said the residents concern over retaining walls
is very real and careful steps must be implemented to insure the
walls are constructed properly. The grade is also a concern.
These factors warrant careful consideration before approval. All
concerns must be addressed satisfactorily in order for an
educated decision to be reached. Mr. Hoffman added he would like
the proponent to produce a site plan with more details on the
retaining walls, the grade and width of the proposed road and
snow removal options.
•
Mr. Lyon Oppheiler of Nob Hill Drive told the Commission a
concern of his is that at the present time Nob Hill Road is used
by people who are lost and get tangled on West 66th. The cul de
sac is then used as a turn around for those vehicles. Mr.
Oppheiler also expressed concern about the height of the
retaining walls.
A discussion ensued regarding the proposal with the
Commissioners stating this plan warrants further study before an
educated decision could be reached. The Commissioners also
expressed the site is, in their opinion, too dense.
Mrs. McClelland moved to table this issue until the
September 30, 1987 Planning Commission Meeting. This would
enable the developer to work with the City Engineer on answering
the concerns over the proposed grade, the road, height of the
retaining walls and denseness of the site. Mrs. Shaw seconded
the motion.
Mr. Ingstrom told the Commission he has spent a life time
developing very beautiful homes on sites as challenging as the
® site in question. Mr. Ingstrom said retaining the existing
vegetation was very important to him. That is the reason why the
proposed road is narrow. He added they can develop the site
according to the standards of the City, but it may not be the
best approach to this site.
Mrs. McClelland asked Mr. Ingstrom if he has any figures on
the height of the retaining walls. Mr. Ingstrom said the
retaining walls will consist of 2 tiers at about 12 feet.
Mr. Lee Johnson asked the proponent when submitting revised
plans to include footprints.
Mr. Hauser, resident of the area (property owner of Lots 4
and 5) explained to the Commission the history of Nob Hill. He
told the Commission at the time of the initial development of Nob
Hill the developer planned to extend the road and fully develop
the area. The hold back to this proposal was the Bell property.
Mr. Bell at that time was not ready to have his property
developed. Mr. Hauser said at that point his property was
landlocked. He told the Commission the property will be an asset
to the Community if developed with care. He pointed out there is
90,000 square feet of undeveloped land that should be developed
to its fullest potential.
Mrs. Paulus asked Mr. Hauser if his property (Lot 4 and 5)
could be used as an entrance into the development. Mr. Hauser
said initially that was the plan. After further study using his
property was not feasible due to a platted 60 foot right -of- way
easement by the City. Mrs. Paulus stated the door should not be
closed to new development options for this property.
Mr. Johnson said the reason for his suggesting a 5 lot plat
versus the proposed 6 is due to the City's long standing record
against a) neck lots and b) the City has traditionally not
approved substandard lots for new construction.
Mr. Bahram Mozayeny of 5101 West 66th Street told the
Commission is his opinion entering the site from West 66th Street
is not a good option. He acknowledged the Commissions concerns
regarding topography but stated he felt this property has
development potential. He pointed out the site has been sited
for 17 lots.
Mr. Hoffman clarified for the record the mention of possibly
developing this property with 17 lots came from the Watershed
District.
Mr. Lewis called for a vote to Mrs. Shaw's second. All were
in favor. The motion carried.
S-87-9 Preliminary Plat Approval for Pondwood
Estates, Schoenhall, Ltd.
Refer To: Attached preliminary plat, grading, erosion
control, and utility plans
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission the subject property
measures approximately 5.7 acres in size and is developed with a
single family dwelling located in the west central portion of the
property. The most significant feature of the site is the pond
along the easterly portions of the property.
Mr. Larsen added the proponents have submitted a request for
subdivision which would create 10 new buildable lots. One lot
(6) would provide a site for the existing dwelling. Lots in the
proposed plat range from 14,300 square feet to 20,200 square feet
® with an average size of 16,833 square feet. The proposed lots
are nearly identical in size and shape to lots along Pawnee Road
and Apache Road.
Mr. Larsen pointed out the preliminary plat suggests the
extension of Apache Road west to McCauley Trail to serve six lots
and a new cul de sac to serve five lots. Apache Trail currently
dead ends into the subject property. The proposed plat assumes
the acquisition of excess right of way from Hennepin County
adjacent to Lots 1 and 5, Block 1. This allows increased lot
sizes and allows the house on Lot 3 to move further from the
pond.
Mr. Larsen said storm water enters the pond from Apache Road
and Indian Hills Road as well as run off from adjacent property.
Currently there is no outlet for the pond. The recent heavy
rains caused the yards of homes along Pawnee Road to flood. The
only way to reduce the level of the pond was to pump out the
excess water. The developers are proposing to install an outlet
for the pond which would connect to the County storm water system
in McCauley Trail. In addition to the outlet the developers are
suggesting other changes to the pond which could improve the
appearance of the pond. These changes may include some dredging
and reshaping of the pond, bubblers or fountains to retard algae
growth and possibly an augmentation well to provide year around
water in the pond. The developers have held a meeting with
® certain neighbors to discuss their proposal.
Mr. Larsen concluded the proposed preliminary plat is a
logical extension of earlier plats in the area. The size and
shape of the proposed lots are nearly identical to lots in
neighborhoods to the south and east. The proposed pond
improvements could improve the ability of the pond to handle
storm water and could improve the aesthetic value of the pond to
surrounding properties. Apache Road should be extended to
McCauley Trail. This extension will provide better distribution
of traffic in the area. It will also greatly improve access to
parts of the neighborhood for emergency vehicles.
Staff recommends preliminary plat approval subject to the
following conditions:
1. Final Plat Approval and Subdivision Dedication.
2. Developers Agreement
3. Acquisition of excess right of way along McCauley Trail
4. Staff approval of dredging plans for pond. Abutting
property owners should be consulted by developers
as plan develops.
5. Any permits required by Nine Mile Watershed District and
the DNR.
6. amendment of the Comprehensive Plan to change the property
designation from Park to Single Family.
The proponent Mr. Michael Halley of Michael Halley Homes,
Inc. was present. Interested residents were present.
Mr. Halley explained to the Commission that he had met with
the impacted neighbors on several occasions and found there were
a number of neighbors who did not favor the extension of Apache
Road. He added he is open to constructing a cul de sac instead
of the proposed through road if the Commission deems it the best
solution. Mr. Halley said he also found at the meeting a
majority of the neighbors are very favorable to the proposed
changes to the pond.
Mr. Gordon Johnson asked Mr. Halley if he considered cul de
sacing the road from the west. Mr. Halley responded it would be
difficult to cul de sac from the west due to the considerable
amount of vegetation that would have to be removed. It would
also impose a fair amount of restrictions as far as developing
between the pond and the cul de sac.
Mr. Marvin Ingber, 6705 Apache Road, stated he is very much
opposed to the extension of Apache Road. Mr. Ingber pointed out
the extension of Apache Road would eliminate a number of
substantial trees found at the end of Apache Road. He suggested
the proponent develop a cul de sac from the west (McCauley Trail)
like the proposed Hume Circle.
Mr. David Swenson, (resides east side of the pond),
clarified for the Commission the history of the pond. Excluding
the rain storm of late July, the pond has not flooded in the past
7 years. The pond at many times is dry. He added in his opinion
another source of water (i.e. well) will have to be incorporated
into the pond to keep it full. He questioned if a change to the
pond would have to be reviewed by the DNR. He concluded he does
not support the proposal to extend Apache Road.
Mr. Yale Dolginow, 6608 Pawnee Road, told the Commission he
has no official comment to make on the issue of either cul de
sacing Apache or constructing a through road. He added his
concern is with the pond. Mr. Dolginow said the pond is now in
his backyard. It is either dry or out of its, banks and the
proponents offer to control the pond in his opinion are like
"words from God". He said it is very important to him to prevent
future damage from the pond, and to have a consistent level of
water in the pond. He indicated he welcomes the help of the
proponent to find a solution to the problems with the pond.
Mrs. Carlson, 6605 Pawnee Road told the Commission she is
concerned about traffic flow and the safety of children in the
immediate area. She said if Apache Road is constructed traffic
flow will increase.
Mr. David McGowan, 6711 Indian Hills Road, said as a
property owner along the pond he wholeheartedly supports the
proposed pond improvements by the proponent. He added he would
like the proponent to exercise control by making sure trees are
retained during the improvement process. Mr. McGowan said he
sympathizes with the residents impacted by the construction of a
through Apache Road and trusts the Commission will act
responsibly.
Ms. Jane Kasiske, 6715 Apache Road, commented if Apache Road
is constructed as a through street, a lovely stand of trees would
be eliminated. She added she is in favor of retaining the beauty
and quiet of the area.
Mr. Gordon Johnson asked Mr. Hoffman if we have traffic
counts on the flow of traffic in the area. Mr. Hoffman said
traffic generally uses West Trail and Sally Lane. He added the
City is not firm on Apache being constructed as a through street
but added it evens up the traffic flow . Mr. Larsen clarified
that staffs, basic purpose in recommending a through Apache Road
is to redistribute traffic more evenly.
Mr. Daniel Deegan, 6608 Sally Lane, worried that if Apache
Road is opened up to McCauley Trail, traffic exiting off Highway
18 will use the through Apache Road.
Mr. Don Nelson, 6709 Indian Hills Road, explained to the
Commission the pond needs improvements. Many times the pond has
weeds growing out of it and looks extremely bad. He added he is
in favor of the proposed improvements. Mr. Nelson said he is
very happy to see the proponent proposes to develop single family
residences instead of double bungalows. Mr. Nelson also added he
is in favor of reducing the traffic along Indian Hills Road.
Mrs. Paulus asked if City Staff and the proponent were open
to the construction of a cul de sac off McCauley Road. Mr.
Larsen said staff is open to input by the Commission but their
point of view is, if a road can go through, it should go through.
Mrs. McClelland said she agrees with staff that Apache Road
should be opened up. She pointed out even distribution of
traffic is only fair.
Mr. Halley clarified that initially his proposal included a
cul de sac of Apache Road from the east. He added homes placed
on a cul de sac have a more favorable market. Mr. Halley said in
meeting with City Staff he incorporated into his proposal their
recommendation of constructing Apache Road as a through road.
Mr. Halley indicated at this time he is not agreeable to
constructing a cul de sac from the west as many residents favor
due to development restrictions.
Mr. Lee Johnson said from a economic standpoint it is wiser
to develop a cul de sac instead of a through road.
Mr. David Swenson said if you extend Apache Road, in reality
you will be placing twelve Homes on the frontage road to Highway
13. A cul de sac would offer a visual and sound buffer.
A discussion ensued concerning the merits of cul de sacing
Apache west to east, to west or constructing Apache as a through
road.
Mr. Lee Johnson asked who owns Outlot A. Mr. Halley said he
is the owner of Outlot A at this time and when the development is
completed Outlot A would belong to the neighborhood association.
Mr. Halley added improvement to the pond would be developed by
him and after completion maintenance would go to the homeowners
association.
Mrs. Paulus asked the Commissioners for their feelings on
either cul de sacing the road from west to east, to west or for
extending Apache.
Mr. Lee Johnson said lie concurs with Mr. Halley's
observations that cul de sacing Apache Road from the east is the
best approach. He added he would like to see it in a drawing
before he could vote. Mrs. McClelland said she is in favor of
extending the road. Mr. Gordon Johnson said he does not know if
cul de sacing from either west to east or east to west is the
best approach and would like to see a drawing of this. He added
he is not prepared to vote. Mr. Lewis said he is undecided. Mr.
Palmer said he has some preference for the through road thus the
burden of traffic is shared but also sees merits in cul de sacing
the road. Mrs. Shaw stated she shares the concern about
eliminating trees but favors the road. In her opinion in this
particular neighborhood there are already so many cul de sacs a
very few streets bear the traffic burden. Mrs. Paulus said she
favors a through Apache Road.
Mr. John Palmer moved for preliminary plat approval subject
to staff's conditions. Mrs. McClelland seconded the motion. Mr.
Lee Johnson added the condition that Outlot A and ownership of
the well be deeded to the Homeowners Association. Upon roll call
vote:
Mr.
Lee Johnson
Nay
Mrs.
Helen McClelland
Aye
Mr.
Gordon Johnson
Nay
Mr.
John Palmer
Aye
Mrs.
Virginia Shaw
Aye
Mrs.
Jane Paulus
Aye
Mr.
William Lewis
Nay
The motion carried.
P-87-6 Szechuan Star Restaurant
3655 Hazelton Road
Request: Building Addition
Mr. Larsen told the Commission the subject property is zoned
Planned Commercial District, PC -3, and is developed with a 4730
square foot restaurant facility containing 122 seats. The
proponents are requesting approval of a plan to add an additional
40 seats within a 750 square foot expansion.
Mr. Larsen added the proposed parking plan illustrates 70
parking stalls available on site. The parking requirement
specified by the Edina Zoning Ordinance is 66 parking stalls.
Mr. Larsen pointed out the materials of the addition will
match the existing brown roofing panels and re -use the existing
brick. The addition conforms to all requirements of the Zoning
Ordinance as well as private deed restrictions and design
requirements specified at the time of the original Yorktown plat.
A landscape plan will also be reviewed by staff as well as
other site improvements.
Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends approval of the Final
Development Plan with the following conditions:
1. Staff approval of the landscaping plan and schedule.
2. Restriping of the parking area to more clearly define
available stalls.
3. Repair, replacement or removal of damaged lighting fixtures
in the parking area.
4. Health Department approval of associated storage
facilities.
Mr. Gordon Johnson moved to recommend Final Development Plan
approval subject to staff conditions. Mrs. McClelland seconded
the motion. All were in favor. The motion carried.
LD -87-12 Lot 1 and Lot 2 Arrowhead Ridge and
part of Lot 2, Indian Head Crest
Refer: Attached survey
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission Lot 1 Arrowhead Ridge is
presented combined with a 66 foot wide portion of Lot 2
Indianhead Crest which provided 66 feet of frontage on Cheyenne
Trail. The Cheyenne Trail portion of the property is pond. The
proposed lot division would provide pond access for Lot 2
Arrowhead Ridge. Both lots would meet or exceed all Zoning
Ordinance requirements following the division . No new buildable
lots would be created.
Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends approval.
Mr. John Palmer moved to recommend approval. Mr. Lee
Johnson seconded the motion. All were in favor. The motion
carried.
LD -87-13 Gustafson and Associates
Lot 4, Block 1, Indian Hills
3rd Addition
6533-35 McCauley Trail West
Request: Party Wall Lot Division for
Double Bungalow
Mr. Larsen told the Commission the subject property request.
for a party wall lot division meets all Zoning requirements.
Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends approval .
Mrs. Shaw moved to recommend approval. Mrs. Paulus seconded
the motion. All were in favor. The motion carried.
III. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:50 P.M.
culin Hoogenakker, anning
Secretary
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