HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-02-25 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes RegularMINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE
EDINA PLANNING COMMISSION
HELD ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1998
7:30 P.M., EDINA CITY HALL COUNCIL
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Chair, Gordon Johnson; Helen McClelland; David Byron; Ann Swenson;
Geof Workinger; Lorelei Bergman and John Lonsbury
MEMBERS ABSENT:
David Runyan, Charles Ingwalson
STAFF PRESENT:
Craig Larsen, Fran Hoffman, Jackie Hoogenakker
I. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES:
The minutes of the January 28, 1998, meeting were filed as submitted.
II. NEW BUSINESS:
P-98-2 Final Development Plan
United Properties
South Edina Development 4th Addition
S-98-2 Final Plat Approval
United Properties
South Edina Development 4th Addition
Outlot A, South Edina Development 3'd Addition
Mr. Larsen reminded the Commission the subject property is a 25 acre tract
located east of France Avenue and south of West 76th Street. Mr. Larsen stated the
approved master plan calls for five office buildings. Buildings 1 and 2, located west of
the pond, are now complete. The developers, United Properties, is requesting Final
Site Plan approval for buildings 3 and 4 of the five building development.
Mr. Larsen pointed out the proposed final site plan illustrates two buildings which
are significantly smaller than those in the approved plan. Building 3 is proposed at
seven stories, with a total floor area of 154,741 square feet. The parking ramp is
reduced from five levels to two, with the upper deck at the approximate grade of
Edinborough Way. Building 4 is proposed as a 9 story, 240,644 square foot structure.
The parking ramp for building 4 is three levels.
Mr. Larsen concluded staff recommends Final Site Plan, and Final Plat approval
subject to a Development Agreement with the proponent, United Properties. Mr.
Larsen continued the proposal is consistent with the approved master plan for
Centennial Lakes. The reduced size of the buildings, and the resultant reduction is size
of the parking ramps, significantly lessens the impact on residential properties east of
Edinborough Way.
Mr. Brian Carey was present representing the proponent, United Properties, Inc..
Bennett was also present representing United Properties, Inc.
Commissioner Swenson commented in reviewing the proposed plans it appears
there is an area for future expansion of building 3. She questioned Mr. Larsen if the
Commission is considering that "potential" expansion this evening.
Mr. Larsen said the proposed expansion of building 3 would become part of the
overall master plan for the property. However, if, and when the expansion were
proposed for construction it would be reviewed by the Commission and Council under
the Final Site Plan review process set forth in the Zoning Ordinance.
Commissioner Swenson noted each building is requesting a separate platting,
and asked if buildings 1 and 2 are platted as separate lots. Mr. Larsen responded in
the affirmative.
Commissioner McClelland asked Mr. Larsen who owns the center ponding area.
Mr. Larsen said that area is owned by the City.
Commissioner Byron said while he is favorable to the reduction in building and
ramp height and size, he has a concern about the traffic flow on West 76th Street, and
the angle of the street presentedthere.
Mr. Larsen responded when Edinborough, Centennial Lakes, etc. was brought
before the Commission and Council years ago the entire development required an EIS
This EIS included the effects of traffic pollution and circulation in the area. The EIS
stated what is proposed should work, but the City does acknowledge there are
problems at certain intersections, especially in the areas Commissioner Byron
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expressed concern over. Continuing, Mr. Larsen explained presently there are plans to
locate a signal on West 76`h Street at the entrance we refer to as the "McDonalds"
entrance, and farther up at Edinborough Way. Mr. Hoffman, City Engineer, interjected
and agreed with Commissioner Byron. He stated both locations he referred to require
lights, which will be paid for by the developer.
Mr. Brian Carey informed the Commission Centennial Lakes Office Park has
been very successful, phases I and II are 100% leased. Continuing, Mr. Carey
explained in his opinion the proposed buildings 3 and 4 improve the development. He
pointed out the parking ramps will be lowered which significantly reduces impact.
Continuing, Mr. Carey said with the reduction in building heights, and the majority of the
density transferred to building 3, in his opinion, this change improves the site lines for
the residents of Edinborough, and with the elevation of the parking ramp the same as
the elevation of Edinborough Way, impact is further lessened.
Chairman Johnson questioned since the ramp is now at grade, will a berm be
constructed. Mr. Carey stated the stretch of land along the ramp will be heavily
screened and landscaped, with varying vegetation. He concluded a berm is not
planned along Edinborough Way to buffer the ramp.
Commissioner Swenson stated she is not comfortable this evening
recommending approval of future expansion of building 3. She stressed she feels the
plans presented this evening are wonderful, and is pleased with the reduction in
building height, and the reduction in the height of the proposed ramps, but she added
she does not want to give blanket approval for something the Commission has not
reviewed.
Mr. Larsen said what the Commission is acting on this evening are the plans
presented before you, as they relate to the master plan. Mr. Carey is only indicating
future expansion plans for building 3. If building 3 is expanded the Commission and
Council will review, and act on those plans.
Chairman Johnson questioned if there is a time limit before the master plan
expires. Mr. Larsen responded not under our rules. When the Commission and Council
approved the master plan, they approved a plan with a set square foot of office space,
and as long as the developer honors what was approved there is no time limit on
completion, though review of each phase is still required.
Chairman Johnson asked the type of materials used on the proposed ramps.
Mr. Bennett said the materials used on the new ramps are pre -cast, and are the same
materials used on the existing ramps. Mr. Bennett noted the goal of the development
team is creating buildings that are constructed with like materials, but present different
facades, such as different shaped windows, more windows, etc. In conclusion, Mr.
Bennett said materials used throughout the development, including the ramps will
match.
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Ms. Jo Ellen Dever, 5101 West 701h Street questioned if a transit system is still
planned for the area. She stated she has a concern regarding vehicular pollution. Mr.
Hoffman responded the transit system is in the planning stages. Mr. Hoffman
concluded when completed the system Is proposed to extend from Highway 494 to the
Southdale/Crosstown area.
Commissioner Swenson moved to recommend Final Site Plan approval, Final
Plat approval, and modification of master plan, subject to staff conditions.
Commissioner Bergman seconded the motion. All voted aye; motion carried.
Commissioner McClelland thanked Mr. Carey for United Properties continued
dialogue with the residents of Edinborough, and their response to their concerns.
LD -98-2 Warren Christianson
6609 Dovre Drive
Mr. Larsen informed the Commission the lot division comprises three platted lots
within Parkwood Knolls 17th Addition. Two of the lots front on Dovre Drive, and one
fronts on Biscayne Boulevard. Parcel 1 is developed with a single family home that
encroaches five feet into Parcel 2. The balance of Parcel 2 is developed with a tennis
court. Parcel 3 is vacant. The property owner is requesting a lot line adjustment which
would allow the construction of a new home on Parcel 2. All three resulting lots would
comply with Zoning Ordinance requirements for Single Dwelling Units.
Staff recommends approval of the lot division.
Commissioner Swenson questioned if after the split all lots would remain similar
in size to the lots in the neighborhood. Mr. Larsen responded even with the lot line
rearrangement, all 3 lots meet or exceed neighborhood standards.
Commissioner Byron asked Mr. Larsen if there are any impediments that would
prevent construction on Lot 3. Mr. Larsen responded there are none.
Commissioner McClelland moved lot division approval. Commissioner Lonsbury
seconded the motion. All voted aye, motion carried.
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C-98-1 Conditional Use Permit
Christ Presbyterian Church
6901 Normandale Road
Chairman Johnson introduced himself, and explained the order of discussion that
will occur this evening. Chairman Johnson stated Mr. Larsen, City Planner, will present
his staff report, and answer questions from the Commission. Mr. Jarvis, representing
Christ Presbyterian Church, and Mr. Steve Brown, representing the Woodhill
Neighborhood Association will then present their positions. Concluding, Chairman
Johnson said he will move to close the hearing, allowing the Commission time to
discuss the issue. The meeting will re -open for input from interested parties, and the
decision making process.
Commissioner Lonsbury addressed the Commission informing them he is a
member of Christ Presbyterian Church, and as a member of the Church respectfully
abstains from the discussion and vote.
Mr. Larsen clarified for members of the Commission, and members of the
audience that the displayed "Rezoning" signs located on the properties of Christ
Presbyterian Church are incorrect, and will be corrected to read "Conditional Use
Permit".
Mr. Larsen presented his staff report.
Commissioner Byron referred to Mr. Larsens comment that with the proposed
expansion CPC will become the fifth largest Church in Edina, and asked Mr. Larsen
how the City measures church size. Is it by the amount of land owned, the size of the
church building, etc.? Mr. Larsen responded the City measures church size by the
seating capacity of the sanctuary.
Mrs. Polly Bowles introduced herself to the Commission as a member of Christ
Presbyterian Church, and member of the steering committee. She informed the
Commission in 1997 the Church made a decision to look into the feasibility of
expanding. The committee discussed options of doing nothing, purchasing a satellite
church, developing off-site home churches, maximizing the existing building site to stay
in Edina, or build elsewhere. The steering committee after careful review decided to
pursue expansion of the Edina campus. Mrs. Bowles stated she presently resides in
Eden Prairie, but in the near future will be moving to her family home on Wilford Way, in
Edina.
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Mr. Peter Jarvis addressed the Commission explaining he is a member of Christ
Presbyterian Church, and is present this evening as a volunteer member of the design
committee. Continuing, Mr. Jarvis said the design committee looked at a number of
different scenarios, finally selecting four. Mr. Jarvis stated the four design concepts are
before you this evening. Mr. Jarvis pointed out City staff has indicated out of the four
options they support option #3. Mr. Jarvis concluded before you this evening are
expansion plans that have been drafted to accomplish the needs of the Church into the
next millennium.
With the support of graphics Mr. Jarvis pointed out the proposed landscaping,
and screening plans. Mr. Jarvis stated one goal of the design committee is to reduce
the impact of the parking lot from neighboring residential properties. Mr. Jarvis said the
Church wants to be a good neighbor, and does not want the parking lot to become an
eyesore. Mr. Jarvis said positive points to be considered regarding the four option
proposals are 1)an increase in landscaping, 2)constructing islands in the parking areas,
and adding landscaping to those islands, 3) all Church grounds will be irrigated, 4) all
parking demands will be met on site, 5) the elimination of parking along West 70th
Street , and, 6) light standards will be lowered to 19'6" which will eliminate "light wash"
into the neighborhood. Concluding Mr. Jarvis opined he believes the Church has been
blessed with an excellent location for expansion. He pointed out the Church is
bordered by Highway 100 and West 701h Street , which are both major intersections.
Mr. Jarvis introduced Mr. Jim Benshoof, of Benshoof & Associates, Inc., a
transportation engineer.
Mr. Benshoof addressed the Commission, and explained by his calculations
option #2 substantially reduces vehicle traffic flow into the neighborhood, and
acknowledged City staff opted for option #3. Continuing, Mr. Benshoof said the traffic
study found with the proposed addition that traffic volumes would remain within the
1,000 per day threshold, which is recognized as a traffic standard measure for
residential streets. Mr. Benshoof pointed out the Church's principal driveway will
continue to be located on West 70" Street. The West 70th Street driveway will be
upgraded to accommodate traffic lane alignments and widths, and a police officer will
continue to provide traffic control during peak Church use periods. In conclusion, Mr.
Benshoff stated in his opinion all four Church expansion options reduce and/or
eliminate on -street parking, and the neighborhood would gain a benefit from the
existing conditions through the prohibition of on -street parking on neighborhood streets
by Church users.
Mr. Jarvis re -addressed the Commission noting many studies have been
conducted regarding landuse, and landuse as service based, and if one were to ask a
cross-section of people what they look for, and desire in a neighborhood, research
indicates from a residential standpoint that the answers usually are the same; good
schools, parks, and churches. Not the gas station down the block, the nearest
Starbucks, or shopping centers, etc. It's schools, parks, churches, in varying order
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depending on the individual asked. Mr. Jarvis pointed out Edina has forever been
marketed as a community with great schools, great parks, and a variety of great
churches. Mr. Jarvis said he believes CPC is an asset to this community, and it is
healthy, growing, and provides great value to the community. A healthy growing church
reflects a healthy community. Mr. Jarvis stated the proposed expansion phases I and II
will help the Church accomplish its goals and mission. Mr. Jarvis commented that
ultimately communities will decide if an institution such as this, benefit the community,
because like schools, and universities, churches do not pay taxes. Continuing, Mr.
Jarvis said he believes as a result of the proposed expansion the benefits to the City
and community are numerous. He pointed out when one looks at the history of the
Church the sanctuary has not been enlarged since 1968, and to accommodate the
growth of the Church, enlargement is needed. Mr. Jarvis said the Church does not
anticipate plans for expansion in the foreseeable future, and if one is realistic when
discussing churches, churches of the 1990's are very different from churches of the
1950's. Churches now provide many outreach services, with youth and adult
educational services, etc.. Mr. Jarvis asked the Commission to note one of the very
successful services provided by CPC is their Wednesday evening youth program, and
70% of the youth that attend this program are Edina residents, and not all the youths
are members of CPC. Mr. Jarvis pointed out in 1957 the Church was constructed with
sanctuary capacity of 200, and in 1968 the current sanctuary and Fellowship Hall were
constructed creating seating capacity of under 500. Mr. Jarvis said he believes the
four proposal options offer the following: 1)allows on -off-site functionality 2) visual
enhancements, noting the landmark nature of the Church steeple 3) City enhancements
with private funds, and 4) enhanced City landmark. Mr. Jarvis stressed it has been 30
years since the Church has asked for an increase in sanctuary seating, and lastly, Mr.
Jarvis asked the Commission to consider that in the mid -1970's MNDOT took
approximately 1.3 acres of the original Church campus, and with current acquisitions
the campus is now larger than it was originally.
Chairman Johnson asked for a 10 minute recess.
Mr. Steven Brown, 6624 Southcrest Drive, introduced himself to the Commission
as President of the Woodhill Neighborhood Association. He told the Commission with
all due respect the issue presented this evening is not a religious issue, it is a landuse
issue. Continuing, Mr. Brown informed the Commission the Woodhill Homeowners
Association was founded in 1958, and is still active today. The Association works very
hard to create the feeling of "community". In April of 1997 the Woodhill Association
held an open meeting, and 12 residents were elected as members of the Association.
Mr. Brown stated there have been attempts made by the Association to open a
dialogue with the Church to explore other developmental options. The Church held a
neighborhood meeting, much like the one this evening, and members of the
neighborhood were informed of the four option plans. Mr. Brown stated the
neighborhood wants to work with the Church, but also would like the Church to consider
the other options noted it their booklet. The closing of West 69th Street has impact, and
the removal of residential homes, to be replaced with parking area is difficult to take.
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Mr. Brown pointed out the name of the association "Woodhill" has a reason. The
neighborhood is constructed on a hill, and much of the residential properties overlook
the Church. The introduction of more asphalt is an important fact. Continuing, Mr.
Brown said the Association has tried to contact members of the design team, but to
date it has been difficult for both parties to connect. Mr. Brown said the neighborhood
has been reacting to expansion rumors. Mr. Brown told Commission members he sent
a letter to Mr. Jarvis and Mr. Crosby indicating the Association opposes the four
expansion options. Mr. Brown stressed he feels he is in a difficult position opposing
expansion of a church, but he is no different from any man in this building (pro or con).
He is a father, husband, son, etc., who recently has been away quite a bit from his
family as a result of the proposed expansion. Mr. Brown opined this issue did not have
to come to this, he acknowledged there is a feeling of animosity between both sides
that could have been avoided if communication was present. Mr. Brown pointed out
this is not a battle that is new. He stated he has a very real concern the proposed
expansion may not be enough, and may not satisfy the growth of the Church. He
pointed out Grace church on France Avenue experienced tremendous growth, and also
purchased a number of homes, now that church, even with the large expansion, (which
resulted in the removal of residential homes) has outgrown the site, and will be moving
to Eden Prairie. Mr. Brown posed the question, what will happen to the Church site if
the growth pattern exceeds the proposed expansion options, will the Church purchase
more residential property, or move, and leave behind an empty church? In conclusion,
Mr. Brown said he realizes all questions cannot be answered, but the questions and
concerns raised are relevant.
Ms. Colleen Gallagher, 6812 Brittany Road, told the Commission the
neighborhood has been before this body almost every 10 years since the Church was
first constructed in 1957. Ms. Gallagher acknowledged Mr. Jarvis touched on some of
the expansion history of the Church, but the neighborhood believes the Commission
needs to hear their point of view regarding the past and proposed expansions.
Continuing, Ms. Gallagher said in 1968 the Church petitioned for their first expansion,
with no objection from the neighborhood. In 1973 (this was probably the first time the
Commission heard concerns from the neighborhood) a developer petitioned to
subdivide a group of lots in the neighborhood, and the developer deeded two residential
lots to CPC. The Church accepted those lots subject to the condition that the lots were
to remain residential. In response to complaints from the neighborhood to the City that
the lots were not properly cared for (mowed, kept free of refuse) the Church removed a
majority of the large Oaks on the lots, which created some bad feelings. Continuing,
Ms. Gallagher stated in 1978 the Church attempted to cross West 69th Street, and
construct a parking lot, and the headlines of the Sun -Current read the "Neighbors were
Irked", In 1998, the Sun -Current stated the "Neighbors were Vexed". Ms. Gallgher
asked the Commission to note 20 years ago her father stood before the Commission,
and now she stands before the Commission. Ms. Gallagher referred to the comment
made by Mr. Jarvis that in the mid -1970's MNDOT took approximately 1.3 acres of
CPC's original property. Ms. Gallagher pointed out the Church is not the only property
owner that lost property. The residents along Normandale Road lost property , and the
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access to West 66th Street was closed, which resulted in more traffic on West 70"
Street, more traffic for the Woodhill neighborhood. Normandale Road also became a
one way which used to be a two-way, which resulted in a very real impact. Continuing,
Ms. Gallagher told the Commission in 1989 the Church undertook a large addition, and
informed the Commission, Council, and members of the neighborhood the Church
anticipates member growth to be 40 to 60 members a year, or a 2% growth. (that
growth has been increased). On July 24, 1989 the Council approved the expansion
with conditions, including a planned parking agreement, which is in place today. Ms.
Gallagher asked the Commission to note the neighborhood is before you this evening
with the same issues. She reported in 1991 if the Commission recalls the Church
petitioned to once again cross West 69th Street, this issue was denied by the
Commission. Ms. Gallagher stressed the neighbors relied on the action of the Planning
Commission, and expected nothing further to happen regarding the option of the
Church crossing West 69th Street. She pointed out the Planning Commission minutes
reflect opposition to the Church's attempt to cross West 691h Street, especially from
Commissioner Faust and McClelland. Ms. Gallagher believed the Church heard the
"message" from the Commission, and neighbors felt it was made crystal clear the
Commission did not want to see the Church cross West 691h Street. Ms. Gallagher
concluded the neighborhood respects the right of the Church to request this addition,
but members of the Woodhill neighborhood want you to respect their right to fight it.
This is our neighborhood, our homes, our property values, and increased traffic that this
neighborhood has to live with everyday. The Woodhill neighborhood is impacted by
what the Church does.
Mr. Fred Little, 4725 Dunberry Lane, submitted to the Chair a petition with 286
signatures in opposition to the proposed Church expansion. Continuing, Mr. Little
stressed the mission of Christ Presbyterian Church is shared by many people in this
room. Many people in the Woodhill neighborhood go to their place of worship every
Sunday, and their ideals and values mirror those of CPC. We are not in opposition to
the merits of the Church. This is strictly an opposition to the expansion of their campus.
Mr. Little stated he wants that stressed. The opposition is only a landuse issue, not a
stand against what this Church or any Church represents. Mr. Little stated he is
working under the premise the Commission received a booklet outlining the Church's
proposals. Mr. Little acknowledged it must be very difficult to digest everything this
booklet presented. Mr. Little said he is confused, because if he understands correctly
CPC references eight options, not four, and he would like more information on the four
options CPC asked the Commission to dismiss. Mr. Little said it is Important to him to
clarify the core issue, which is landuse. No one can deny that CPC has been a very
successful Church by anyone's measurements. They are a Church with tremendous
resources, and the neighborhood association is a grass roots organization without a
budget. Mr. Little acknowledged the programs offered by the Church are very well
received in Edina, and the Church should be complimented. CPC has grown
tremendously, and the Church is now asking the neighborhood to accept their changes.
Mr. Little pointed out that we, as neighbors, are not requesting anything, we only want
our neighborhood to continue to be the safe, quite, peaceful residential neighborhood
we bought into. Mr. Little opined the Church is now at a crossroads with a very
dynamic minister. Mr. Little said the Church should be congratulated because it has so
much going for it, but how their growth is managed directly impacts the residents of the
area. Mr. Little stated with all due respect the neighborhood is not concerned with the
growth problems of the Church. He pointed out this is our neighborhood, our homes,
and we respectfully remind the Commission even if the Church is located in this
neighborhood the homeowners of the Woodhill neighborhood should not have
subjugate their values and needs because this Church is experiencing growth. Mr.
Little stressed the neighborhood regrets this has become an adversarial issue. He
asked the Commission to believe residents of neighborhood are not opposed to the
mission of the Church, the neighborhood believes the Church is an asset to Edina, and
will not argue that point, but the residents of the area want to work with the Church to
create the best solution possible to their growth. Mr. Little said he feels badly that at
best this process is adversarial, and in his opinion not a very good process, It pits
neighbor against neighbor. He concluded that bigger is not necessarily better, the
Church has become a magnet Church, with 57-58 different groups using this facility.
Mr. Little asked the Commission to get to the root of the matter, which is in his opinion
is land use, and the fact that no one knows what will happen in 2005. It is difficult to
attach a confidence level to traffic engineers and their projections, because when one
talk s statistics, it is a guess. In conclusion Mr. Little said he resents the analysis that
states traffic will be at acceptable levels. With graphics Mr. Little pointed out an
analysis of Church growth. In 1997 the Church maintained they have 3000 members,
and if growth is projected into the year 2004, and if growth remains the same as the
past few years, growth will be 5-7% a year which will be membership of 4000+. Mr.
Little said he is not quibbling with growth projections, but is dealing with the potential
magnitude of growth, and the possibility of what the Church is requesting this evening
may not be enough.
Mrs. Carla Sitek, 4508 Balfanz, informed Commission members she has four
children that attend Cornelia School, and her family has lived in the neighborhood for a
number of years and has seen a marked increase in traffic on West 70th Street,
especially over the past three years. She added many parents who live north of West
70th Street drive their children to school because of the traffic on West 70th Street. Mrs.
Sitek told the Commission she is now on the task force at Cornelia School to try to find
a solution to the traffic, and safety for the children who go to school there. The
expansion of the Church will add traffic to already loaded streets, and when West 70th
Street is overloaded vehicles cut through the neighborhood. With all due respect, Mrs.
Sitek concluded she grew up in Edina and cannot believe the Commission would
consider allowing a Church to raze four houses for a parking lot.
Ms. Carrico, 4816 Roycar, told the Commission there is no neighborhood park
except for Cornelia or Cornelia school which results in our children having to cross two
very busy streets. Continuing, she said the parking lot is also an issue because of the
increase in its size. She pointed out there will be a safety issue with a lot this size
because all parts of the lot are not visible from the streets, and certain areas will remain
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dark. Ms. Carrico stated the Woodhill neighborhood is a beautiful residential
neighborhood, and through no fault of its own has become surrounded by major streets.
She pointed out when the traffic was divided evenly to gain access to the Southdale
area betwaen West 66 and West 70th Streets getting out of the neighborhood was
manageable, but when Highway 100 was expanded, and access was eliminated from
West 66th Street, West 701h Street became the central collector, and is very busy.
France Avenue is also a very busy road. The proposed increase in Church
membership will only add more cars on residential streets every day of the week. Ms.
Carrico concluded the neighborhood is seeking some relief, and is looking to the
Commission to provide that relief.
Ms. Sandy Keane, 4813 Upper Terrace, told the Commission when she was
young she lived is south Minneapolis, and as her family grew they realized they would
have to leave their home to accommodate their growth. As a family unit they never
considered asking their neighbors if they could purchase their property so they could
remain in their home and expand. Continuing, she stated the Church family may be
experiencing the same growing pains her family did, but instead of moving to a location
that will accommodate their growth they have decided to buy up their neighbors
property to construct a larger sanctuary and put up a parking lot.
Ms. Carol Kaiser-Myland, 4800 West 701h Street, informed the Commission she
lives two doors from the Church property on West 701h Street. She said the Church has
experienced wonderful growth, but the property owners along West 70th Street are
already overburdened with the traffic situation as it exists today. Ms. Myland asked the
Commission to take into consideration when they make their decision the increased
traffic on West 70th Street, and the impact this expansion will have on the lives of
residents on West 70th Street, and the streets that load on to it.
Mr. Brown, thanked the Commission for their patience during the presentations
of members of the Woodhill neighborhood.
Chairman Johnson asked the Commission at this time if they had any questions
for the developer or neighborhood association members.
Commissioner Byron asked Mr. Jarvis the drivers for Phase II of their proposal.
Mr. Jarvis said it is projected Phase II will be constructed in 5 to 7 tears to
accommodate the increase in enrollment in adult and youth education.
Commissioner Byron asked what the present enrollment is. Mr. Jarvis deferred
to Ms. Sue Payne who is in charge of youth activities. Ms. Payne said approximately
700 youths participate in the youth program: Adult education has been difficult to
assess because of its location off the Church campus site, and enrollment in that
program has suffered as a result.
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Commissioner Byron asked if it is the hope of the Church that adult education
will increase as a result of the proposed expansion. Ms. Payne said the hope is to be
able for all Church members to meet at one location for worship, and continuing
education. She concluded incorporating adult education on the campus will increase
adult attendance.
Chairman Johnson noted it appears the Church favors option #1, and staff has
indicated their preference for option #3. He asked Mr. Jarvis if the Church considers all
options on the floor or only options #1 and #3. Mr. Jarvis responded the Church at this
time considers all four options on the floor. All four options accommodate the needs of
the Church, but #1 and #3 appear to be the most viable.
Commissioner Swenson interjected and questioned Mr. Jarvis if they ever
considered other options for the parking lot, such as a ramp.
Mr. Jarvis said in the summer of 1996 the Church hired two consultants to
evaluate the feasibility of a two level ramp. It was recalled at one of the previous
Commission hearings a ramp was suggested. The Church design committee also
discussed a ramp option, but found a ramp is not allowed in the R-1 district. Mr. Jarvis
divulged the Church would prefer no ramp because a ramp is very expensive.
Commissioner Swenson said she realizes a ramp is not allowed in an R-1 district, but it
is possible a ramp would be less intrusive to the neighborhood. Mr. Jarvis
acknowledged busing members from off-site parking has been difficult, but the ramp
was too expensive to consider further.
Commissioner Byron noted in all four option plans it appears the entrance/exit
has been moved farther to the east. Is this to help facilitate stacking. Mr. Jarvis said
that is correct. Commissioner Byron said he travels West 70th Street every Sunday to
attend his Church, and it appears to him if the entrance is moved, the road at that point
narrows. Mr. Jarvis said the Church will recommend that all parking on the north side of
West 70" Street be eliminated. This should open up additional opportunities for
stripping, and a protected left turn lane. Commissioner Byron asked about the
ingress/egress on the southside of West 701h Street. Mr. Jarvis said with respect to
Sunday mornings, Tuesday Bible study, and Wednesday evenings, the southside
should operate as it is today.
Mr. Brown interjected, and pointed out there is only one access into the Church
parking lot, and two exits. He noted with the proposed expansion, in his opinion
congestion will be created because of one entrance.
Chairman Johnson motioned to close the hearing to allow the Commission time
to discuss the options, and focus on what the Commission prefers.
Commissioner Workinger stated this issue is very perplexing to him. He said he
does not really know how usual it is for the Commission to review four options, but in
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his opinion the Church should sit down with their neighbors, and try to work out a
compromise solution. Commissioner Workinger said he realizes the Church wants
resolution on this matter, but he believes it is an imposition for this panel to react to all
four options when the impacted neighbors, and the Church appear not to be able to
resolve their differences, and come to a reasonable solution. Commissioner Workinger
said at this time he is just coming short of recommending that this issue be tabled.
Chairman Johnson asked the Commission if they want to continue this
discussion, and choose one option or reduce the options for discussion purposes.
Commissioner Swenson pointed out it may be possible members of the
Commission do not support any of the proposed four options.
Commissioner McClelland said in her opinion the Church has presented four
different options, which allows flexibility in choice, close off the neighborhood, or keep it
open. Continuing, she pointed out City staff has indicated support for option #3, the
Church #1, and the Fire Department indicated they recommend maintaining access
through the parking area to accommodate emergency vehicles as well as Church traffic
during peak usage periods. Commissioner McClelland concluded she is not adverse to
eliminating #2 and #4 from discussion.
Commissioner Workinger said if one looks at the position of the Fire Department
options #1 and #3 are the only viable options because they provide access for
emergency vehicles. Commissioner Workinger said he believes there are also other
alternatives that could be developed. Commissioner McClelland said she agrees there
could be other design options out there, but she added she was only focusing on the
options presented.
A discussion ensued between Commission members on the four options
proposed by the Church, with no conclusion.
Commissioner Swenson moved to recommend denial of all four options.
Commissioner Workinger seconded the motion.
Commissioner Byron interjected he would like to hear more from the neighbors
on the option(s) (out of the 8 presented in the CPC booklet) that they may favor.
Further discussion ensued with Commissioner McClelland stating while she
understands the difficulty of the issue, she reiterated she has not heard anything
positive from the Woodhill neighborhood, or their choice from the four options
presented.
Commissioner Workinger reiterated in his opinion it is difficult to be put in the
position of having to decide between four options, adding he does not feel he has had
ample time to study, and digest what has been presented. Continuing, Commissioner
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Workinger said he would have appreciated it if the Church would have presented one
option, and one option only.
Commissioner Swenson reiterated it is possible a number of Commissioners do
not favor any of the four options proposed by the Church, and feel the Church can do a
better job addressing the concerns of the neighborhood. Blocking off, and/or relocating
a street is an important issue for any neighborhood, adding to the equation that
residential houses are proposed to be razed is difficult. Commissioner Swenson said
she believes there are other design alternatives out there, besides the four presented
this evening, which would accomplish what the Church desires, and not compromise
the integrity of the neighborhood.
Chairman Johnson interjected while it is difficult to discuss four options the
Commission should decide on an option they feel is best. The Commission also has
the option of supporting the staff position of option #3. Chairman Johnson suggested
the possibility of tabling the issue allowing both sides to communicate.
Commissioner McClelland agreed, reiterating the Commission has not heard any
positive feedback, or solutions from the Woodhill Neighborhood Association, or
anything from supporters of the Church, (and supporters appear to be in the audience)
except for the presenters of the project.
An unidentified man stated "We came this evening for a decision", and to table
this is grossly unfair to everyone here. The people who care, came here tonight, and
feel the Commission owes us an answer.
Chairman Johnson said he does not agree, the Commission is here to listen to
all sides, and to come up with the best solution. Sometimes the decision takes extra
time, and requires more information.
Commissioner Workinger withdrew his second. Commissioner Swenson
withdrew her motion for denial.
Chairman Johnson re -opened the hearing.
Mr. John Hoyt, 4812 Dunberry Lane, told Commission members he has
conducted studies of how the parking lot at CPC is used. He added he believes even
with the increase in parking lot size Church members will still use the street because it
affords the closest location to the Church doors. Mr. Hoyt said when he drove by the lot
in the morning there were six cars in the parking lot, and 13 cars parked on West 69"
Street. Mr. Hoyt pointed out habits are hard to break, suggesting signage may alleviate
on -street parking problems.
Mr. Jarvis interjected it may be a good idea to request "No Parking" signs in
areas other than on West 701h Street.
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Mr. Brown asked Mr. Jarvis if the Church ever considered moving the entrance
to the Church. Mr. Jarvis responded the main access to the Church will continue to be
from West 701h Street.
Commissioner Workinger said he has a problem with all four options.
Commissioner Bergman interjected she cannot support options #1, #2, and #4.
Commissioner Byron stated in his opinion both sides have presented their
positions very well, and he complimented them on their excellent presentations.
Commissioner Byron said even though the presentations have been superior he is not
ready to recommend a favorble vote on any of the four options presented this evening.
Commissioner Byron moved to recommend denial of the Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Swenson seconded the motion.
Commissioner Workinger said he does not believe a vote for, or against, will
make it on the floor, and suggested tabling the issue.
Mr. Jarvis interjected the Church would not object to a continuance.
Commissioner Byron stated he would be pleased to withdraw his motion to deny.
Commissioner Swenson withdrew her second. She added she is not adverse to tabling
this issue.
Commissioner McClelland moved to table the request for a Conditional Use
Permit for Christ Presbyterian Church until the Planning Commission meeting of April 1,
1998. Commissioner Bergman seconded the motion. Ayes; Byron, Swenson,
McClelland, Workinger, Bergman Johnson. Abstain, Lonsbury.
It was mentioned that April 1St falls during Edina's Spring break which could
result in difficulties for residents who may have planned a trip, and desire to attend the
regularly scheduled Planning Commission meeting.
III. ADJOURNMENT:
The meeting adjourned at 12:15 A.M.
Cjalie Hoogenakker
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