HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986 11-25 HPB Meeting Minutes RegularA G E N D A
EDINA HERITAGE PRESERVATION BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 1986, AT 7:30 P.M.
EDINA CITY HALL MANAGER'S CONFERENCE ROOM
I. Approval of the Minutes: September 30, 1986
II. Introduction of New Member:
Mr. John Metil
4611 Casco
III. Meeting with Council Member Fred Richards
A. Country Club District
B. Grange Hall
IV. Historic Building Tour - 10/18/86
V. Documentation Program
VI. Odd Fellows Hall 1918, 4388 France Avenue South
VII. Resolution of Appreciation for John C. Childs
VIII. Other Business:
IX. Next Meeting Date: December 23, 1986 or postpone
until January 27, 1987
X. Adjournment
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
EDINA HERITAGE PRESERVATION BOARD
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 1986 AT 7:30 P.M.
EDINA CITY HALL MANAGER'S CONFERENCE ROOM
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Gordon Stuart, Cy Stuppy, Tom
Martinson, Lois Wilder, Gary Nyberg, John
Metil, David Gepner
STAFF PRESENT: Harold Sand
OTHERS PRESENT: City Council Member Fred Richards
I. Approval of Minutes: Mr. Nyberg moved approval of the
September 30,1986 minutes. Mr. Stuppy seconded. All
voted aye. Motion carried.
II. Introduction of New Member: Mr. Stuart introduced Mr.
John Metil, 4611 Casco Ave. as replacement for Mr. John
Childs.
III. Meeting With Councilmember Fred Richards: Mr. Martinson
explained that the Board has some concerns about some
general questions and some specific issues that they wished
discuss with City Council member and HPB liaison Fred
Richards. The general question is the Board has existed
11 years and we have done alot of stuff that the City Council
thought was ok or at least went along with it. I'm looking
down the line saying what do we do now?
Most of the people in Country Club know that they live
in a National Register District and that is nice and
enhanses their property value. However, the National
Register designation is really serious and important and
the Country Club District is one of the largest districts
in the state in terms of area. The Country Club District
is very distinctive in and of itself. There are other
similar districts in other parts of the country, but not
identical.
Over a period of years the district is likely to change.
When you look at the changes since the early 1950's, there
have been 2 or 3 peculiar buildings that have shown up but
there are changes taking place continually, little by
little every day. The idea of change is not a problem
but managing it is the problem. We are concerned that we
will wake up 10 or 15 years from now and realize that this
is substantially different from the specialness of the Country
Club that existed previously. In fact, it could be so
different that it is no different than any other nice
neighborhood in the metropolitan area. We have tons of
nice neighborhoods and there is never any chance of them
being special like the Country Club District.
EDINA HPB MINUTES
NOVEMBER 25, 1986
PAGE TWO
The underlying question that we would like to have the
City Council direct us on is: Do you believe the Country
Club District is special? If so, what is to be done? It
seems there are two logical answers to the question. First
is: Oh forget it, people ought to be able to do what ever
they want to the house. The second option is to treat it
like a historic area. Many historic areas have very well set
out guidelines. The second option, which is probably the
appropriate thing to do, may mean meetings once a month or
twice a month and an -immense amount of work for this Board.
There is no point in imposing something on the neighborhood
unless they favor the regulation. The community has to
understand what the choices are, what it means and doesn't
mean being designated and say yes we want this or no we
don't. There is no point in fighting the battles if the
neighborhood doesn't want it. The bottom line is that we
need to lay out the issues about what the choices mean. The
community can talk to the City Council and agree or disagree.
We are not as useful to the community and the Council as we
probably would have been 6 or 7 years ago. Now, we are at
the point that lots of things are happening that should have
some direction.
Mr. Stuppy said that the main point is historically
we have something here. It is at the point of being destroyed
by additions and corrections that people are making when
these properties change hands. Do we want to lose it or do
we want to preserve it.
Mr. Martinson said the underlying thing is not to stop
change. You can have positive change instead of neutral or
negative change. There are lots of ways of doing it; it is
being done in other districts. We just have to get through
to them.
Mr. Richards said that he would like to think there is
a way to handle the situation and the board has identified
the choices. He does not know the answer any more than
the Board knows. The City Council has a relatively conser-
vative philosophy as it pertains to government. The City
Council believes strongly in the private sector; letting
the individuals in the community do what they want within
a context of certain regulations. During the public hearings
to establish the National Register District there was a
statement that the designation will not affect individual
property rights. In effect the people agreed to the desig-
nation as long as it did not impose any restriction on
individual property. He senses that the Board sees an
effect on the concept or sense of the Country Club District
EDINA HPB MINUTES
NOVEMBER 25, 1986
PAGE THREE
by changes to individual properties. However, imposition
of design regulations may be counter to the impression
people thought would occur by creating this National
historic designation. He has not considered the issue
however he hears a number of comments that we have too
much government. If the Board feels strongly about the issue,
the Board should get the facts, present them at public
hearings and determine what the people might want. Then we
should put the item on the agenda and make some findings.
Find out what more could be done, what it means in terms
of restrictions and curtailment of individual rights and
ask the residents what they think about establishing an
architectural committee.
Mr. Stuart said the issue was triggered by the loss of
Wooddale School which was a key building in the Country Club
District planning. New housing should not be an.:issue
because there are not many building sites remaining for
development.
Mr. Martinson said he could see alot of turn -around
in the Fairway Section in the next few years. The area has
10 or 11 characteristics that make it good. It would be
good to sit down with 8 to 10 leaders of the neighborhood
in a no stress situation and discuss the issues.
Mr. Gepner said that education about preservation
issues is an important consideration; he gained an apprec-
iation for the district after he became a member of the Board.
Some of the residents in the district may need that education
too.
Mr. Richards said he would encourage an airing of the
issues. The residents will not be opposed to regulation if
they understand that the regulation is in their best
economic interests.
Mr. Metil said that he lives in the neighborhood and
paid additional money for his house because of the special
character in the neighborhood. He assumed that there were
architectural controls and was shocked to find that there
were no controls.
Mr. Stuppy indicated that under the present regulations
a neighbor could construct an addition in the rear of the
dwelling that would diminish your property value without
consideration for the design or impact on the neighborhood.
Mr. Nyberg indicated that this problem occurs in all
neighborhoods.
EDINA HPB MINUTES
NOVEMBER 25, 1986 1
PAGE FOUR
1
Mr. Richards asked if the Board couldsubstantiate the
diminished value of neighbor's houses due to inappropriate
additions. The City is controlled by represenative government
and they want to hear from the people affected. He will
bring the Board's concern to the attention of the City Council
Monday night. They do read the Board's minutes.
Mr. Nyberg said the blocks in Country Club are very
active and the Board could contact one person in each
segment to contact all the people. Mr. Martinson said the
Board could do a small publication for the neighborhood
meeting.
Mr. Stuppy raised the issue about the recent repainting
of the Grange Hall by the Edina Park Department. Mr. Stuart
said the Board was concerned that the Grange Hall was repainted
without the notification and approval of the Heritage
Preservation Board. The painting contractor used sandblasting
to remove the old paint and this is a destructive process
that has eroded some of the original wood carving and
ornamental wood trim. Mr. Stuppy added that the Board could
have suggested appropriate alternatives that would be less
destructive of the original element_: of t', -ie building. Mr.
Richards said that the ordinance provides an approval
process and he likes to see these systems utilized to their
fullest. He hopes that the City has learned a lesson from
this. Mr. Richards expressed his appreciation for the
service to the community provided by the Heritage Preservation
Board and left the meeting.
Mr. Stuart suggested that the issue of how the Board
communicates the message to the Country Club District should
be continued until the next meeting.
IV. Historic Building Tour: Mr. Stuart reported that Saturday,
October 18,1986 Mr. Stuppy, Mr. Gepner, Mr. Sand and he went
on a tour of historic buildings in Edina. They visited
approximately 20 sites in northeast and northwest areas of
the City. Mr. Stuppy said the tour was educational and
worthwhile. The Board considered holding tours in other
parts of the City. No further action taken.
V. Documentation Program: Mr. Sand said that we frequently
regret the lack of early records when doing historic
research on buildings. However little consideration is
given to current practices to avoid the same problems in
the future. The Board could attempt to identify modern
EDINA HPB MINUTES
NOVEMBER 25, 1986
PAGE FIVE
structures that maybe deemed significant in the future and
start to assemble files with pertinent information. This could
include structures like the MSAIA design awards. Other possible
actions include review of City policies concerning records
saved and microfilmed, collect City forms and publications,
and conduct photo studies of the City on a periodic basis.
Mrs. Wilder commented that the program involved trying
to do a better job of collecting history now. Mr. Stuart
mentioned problems he has encountered with destruction of
historical records that are important to genealogical and
historic research. Mr. Martinson said this is a logical
concept that we should have done long ago. Mr. Gepner said
the act of assembling this will help us understand and develop
a greator appreciation for what we have. No further action
taken.
VI. Odd Fellows Hall: 1918, 4388 France Ave. S.
Mr. Sand said the Golden Link Lodge No. 167 moved to a
location in St. Louis Park approximately one year ago. The
building was sold to the owner of Hillcrest Upholstery Co.
which occupies the corner store location. Mr. Ken Durr,
local builder and owner of the antique shop located in the
north half of the building wishes to purchase the building
and undertake substantial remodeling to convert the entire
building to antique shop an upholstery service.
The proposed changes will be considered by the Edina Board
of Appeals and Adjustments in variance case no. B-86-47 on
December 4, 1986. The proposal may be referred to the HPB as
a result of this hearing but there is no formal request at
this time.
The structure is a utilitarian brick building with a red
asphalt shingle hip roof. The ground floor is occupied by
three small shops and the second floor is devotedto the lodge
hall and ancillary rooms. Mr. Durr has remodeling plans
prepared by Bruce W. Schmitt and Associates, architects. The
plans close the corner commercial entrance and create a new
entrance with a fan window, centered on the south elevation and
replace the existing recessed lodge entrance on the east
elevation with a flush entrance with a fan window above. All
of the windows will be replaced and the interior substantially
altered to replace the stair and open the second floor for
display of merchandise. The remodeling includes restructuring
the roof and reroofing. there will be a small addition on the
second floor, north side of the building.
EDINA HPB MINUTES
NOVEMBER 25, 1986
PAGE SIX
The Odd Fellows Hall is identified in History and
Architecture of Edina Minnesota as a historic structure
however it has not been zoned Heritage Preservation District.
Mr. Martinson said that comparing the 1959 photo to the
existing structure indicates the concept of storefront has
changed dramatically and the lodge hall has moved. He
could not support rezoning because the building has changed
so much. No action taken.
VII. Resolution of Appreciation: John C. Childs
Mr. Sand presented the resolution for Mr. Child's
service on the Board. Mr. Nyberg moved approval of the
resolution. Mr. Gepner seconded. All voted aye. Motion
carried.
VIII.Other Business:
A. Edina Centennial. Betty Hemstad has requested
volunteers to help with historic tours of the City.
B. History and Architecture of Edina, Minnesota.
Mr. Sand inquired about the treatment of new structures
discovered since the printing of the book. After some
discussion, Mr. Martinson said the book is a finite
thing that, should not be substantially changed.
C. Historic Markers. The first historic marker
was installed at the Baird House, 4400 West 50th St.
in connection with the celebration of the centennial
of the house this fall.
IX. Next Meeting Date: Mr. Nyberg moved to cancel the December
23,1986 meeting and schedule the next meeting January
27, 1987 at 7:30 p.m. Mr. Stuppy seconded. All voted
aye. Motion carried.
X. Adjournment: 9:20 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted
Harold Sand